Tesla Powerwall Battery Ready to Power Your Home

[rutherfordsc]

First Tesla revolutionized batteries for electric vehicles, now it's looking to do the same for homes with its Powerwall home battery.

Tesla Powerwall Battery Ready to Power Your Home : Read more

 

[Onus]

If that is a total equipment price (i.e. it includes the inverter(s), grid-tie components, charger, and necessary wiring, it's not a bad price, not a bad size, and not a bad weight. Getting 10kWH from lead-acid batteries is a LOT more involved.

Edit: It appears to omit the "AC-DC inverter," which would be the charger. Since this is apparently a high-voltage DC system, that could turn out to be a very expensive and/or proprietary component. More information is needed.

 

[Vlad Rose]

I do agree that it is not a bad price, size or weight.

As an emergency backup or a charger for your hybrid, it's not a bad option as gas generators at 7kWh start at a minimum of over $1000, closer to $2000.

However, I would not recommend someone getting something like this to save money by trying to use stored 'low demand' power during 'high demand' time periods. Average prices of electricity by the grid is around 10-20 cents per kWh per state, so the variation between low usage and peak usage isn't much.

 

[StarBound]

This news came as South Africa entered its power crisis. No idea what shipping would cost but the demand would inflate the price to triple if not quadruple. It is an irrecoverable cost due to poor planning. There also isn't mention of how long it lasts.

Even with electricity prices as high as they are at $1000 it will take 10 years to make investing in one worth it.

 

[wiyosaya]

If that is a total equipment price (i.e. it includes the inverter(s), grid-tie components, charger, and necessary wiring, it's not a bad price, not a bad size, and not a bad weight. Getting 10kWH from lead-acid batteries is a LOT more involved.

Edit: It appears to omit the "AC-DC inverter," which would be the charger. Since this is apparently a high-voltage DC system, that could turn out to be a very expensive and/or proprietary component. More information is needed.

It almost certainly has a charge controller and charger, AC-DC inverter as you term it, included. If it did not, there would be no means of charging it.

And, at least as I see it, other than size, getting 10kWh from lead-acid batteries is no more involved than getting the right charge controller, or getting a programmable charge controller, and getting the right batteries, i.e., deep-cycle batteries that are not the same as those designed for automotive use.

This news came as South Africa entered its power crisis. No idea what shipping would cost but the demand would inflate the price to triple if not quadruple. It is an irrecoverable cost due to poor planning. There also isn't mention of how long it lasts.

Even with electricity prices as high as they are at $1000 it will take 10 years to make investing in one worth it.

How long it lasts depends on how much power is drawn from it - if that is what you mean. Otherwise, the lifetime of the pack is probably the same as most current li batteries.

 

[razor512]

Battery power for solar has been tried before, and it has failed. The limitation is one of technology, the batteries have limited charge cycles, and lose capacity with each charge cycle. The issue with this is that, people who have installed a battery system instead of a reverse meter to put power back into the grid and receive a credit for them, have not saved money.

They will see lower bills for the first few years, but then the battery begins to fail the self tests, and then they need to replace it for a cost higher than all of the money that they had saved.

This is why the market has moved to people pumping the money back into the grid, and thus offsetting their electricity usage during the day (a decent system will essentially generate enough power to cover your electrical use, with some extra to put back into the grid. The credit then works to help offset the electrical energy that you use at night. This offers a consistent ROI, that will essentially last the life of the panels (upwards of 25 years depending on the quality).

 

[nitrium]

How long do these batteries last - i.e. how often will they need replacing? If you have to replace these very five years or something, they are obviously not going to be REMOTELY cost effective.

 

[JonTuxIvy]

10 year warranty. Its the equivalent of an iphone for batteries. Lump together a bunch of existing technologies, make it pretty, and market market market.

This is an attempt to establish a market for the gigafactory surplus since they cant sell enough cars to meet its production capacity.

The stock always tells the story...Tesla is down 9.5 today. If it was a uniquely new product, they would be up.

 

[Vlad Rose]

10 year warranty. Its the equivalent of an iphone for batteries. Lump together a bunch of existing technologies, make it pretty, and market market market.

This is an attempt to establish a market for the gigafactory surplus since they cant sell enough cars to meet its production capacity.

The stock always tells the story...Tesla is down 9.5 today. If it was a uniquely new product, they would be up.

Actually, It's their supply that's that problem, not their sales. If you want to buy one of their cars, you're looking at an upward of 3 months unless you want their highest end model, which is still around a 20 day wait. It's not uncommon for the workers there to be doing 6 day/12 hour shifts right now.

Their stocks are down because the company is losing money currently with all their projects going on and not enough revenue to support it.

http/www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-posts-short-waiting-time-for-upscale-p85d-model-s-1426013218

http/www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Tesla-Motors-Reviews-E43129.htm

 

[none12345]

Lot of questions about this and few answers it seems. Does it have a built in ac->dc charger for the battery, does it have a built in dc->dc converter to output something lower then 350-400 volts, ie 48v

If it only is a 350-400v battery, with no dc-dc output management. Then this is not friendly to most existing inverters. The most common voltage by far is 48v.

There are advantages for using higher voltages, but if you cant find equipment...

I guess well have to wait for more details.

 

[jhpoland]

If it were a Battery of 48 volts or even 96 votls or 110VDC it would lend to solar and wind power storage . So at least a special charger and inverter are needed.
Making Edison Iron Batteries that are in these voltages a Better deal Over All when compared to Litium in life and discharge rate in a voltage you can get an excellent over the counter inverter /Charger for in stores Now !

 

[SteelCity1981]

Mr Tesla would be proud if he was alive today.

 

[hst101rox]

Battery power for solar has been tried before, and it has failed. The limitation is one of technology, the batteries have limited charge cycles, and lose capacity with each charge cycle. The issue with this is that, people who have installed a battery system instead of a reverse meter to put power back into the grid and receive a credit for them, have not saved money.

They will see lower bills for the first few years, but then the battery begins to fail the self tests, and then they need to replace it for a cost higher than all of the money that they had saved.

This is why the market has moved to people pumping the money back into the grid, and thus offsetting their electricity usage during the day (a decent system will essentially generate enough power to cover your electrical use, with some extra to put back into the grid. The credit then works to help offset the electrical energy that you use at night. This offers a consistent ROI, that will essentially last the life of the panels (upwards of 25 years depending on the quality).

Tesla's battery pack's reliability is better than you think, as long as the air cooling (I assume not liquid cooled or heated) is sufficient and the SOC window isn't too wide then it ought to last a good 8 years or more before getting down to 75% of original usable capacity. The original Tesla Roadster batteries shows longevity.

 

[jkflipflop98]

I've quit posting here, but when you see something this incredibly stupid, you just have to say something.

The stock always tells the story...Tesla is down 9.5 today. If it was a uniquely new product, they would be up.

WTF?!? You're basing the merits of a product off what the stock market says? I've never in my life read anything so stupid as this quote. Never. 9 year olds with Down's would be laughing at the sheer ignorance on display.

 

[mrmez]

Bring it on.

Why does a 'small' company like Tesla have to be the one doing this?

Hope they are rewarded with $$$ and that the competition get a kick in the pants to get going.

 

[cats_Paw]

I live in Poland.
The price of electricity has been dropping for 3 years now. At the current price, in order for me to spend 2000 dollars, with my current bill, it would take around 4 years of only using the Generators (thats assuming I could, since electricity would depend on sunny days... we dont get a lot of that here outside of the summer).

I can see this as a very smart investment if you have heavy use of electricity (a lot of air conditioners in a house or similar things).
Its an interesthing thing thou. It will create competition for electricity, and thats a good thing.

 

[WFang]

If that is a total equipment price (i.e. it includes the inverter(s), grid-tie components, charger, and necessary wiring, it's not a bad price, not a bad size, and not a bad weight. Getting 10kWH from lead-acid batteries is a LOT more involved.

Edit: It appears to omit the "AC-DC inverter," which would be the charger. Since this is apparently a high-voltage DC system, that could turn out to be a very expensive and/or proprietary component. More information is needed.

Solar systems that use 'power optimizer' technology (as opposed to micro-inverters) operate at that high of a DC power output level. In other words, these packs seem like they are designed to go in parallel with a solar inverter, charged by the solar array DC side.
Since grid regulations require the main solar inverter to disconnect from the house/grid during grid outage, I imagine you would need a separate AC inverter (more standard off the shelf since the pack isn't likely to be at 500V across terminals), and run that up to the house from the battery bank to an automatic transfer switch similar to what any other emergency generator solution would require.
This way, your solar array is off-grid during power-outage, but still available to charge the battery pack during day-time..

 

[solard532]

If that is a total equipment price (i.e. it includes the inverter(s), grid-tie components, charger, and necessary wiring, it's not a bad price, not a bad size, and not a bad weight. Getting 10kWH from lead-acid batteries is a LOT more involved.

Edit: It appears to omit the "AC-DC inverter," which would be the charger. Since this is apparently a high-voltage DC system, that could turn out to be a very expensive and/or proprietary component. More information is needed.

No inverter, but the press release did mention a couple inverters that they recommend - these are solar inverters so the idea is you need the solar inverters anyways for your solar pv system. I've read (but am not sure) that the system DOES include the CHARGER which is what would be needed between the inverter and the battery. If it does include the charger then the price is pretty damn low at $3,500!

 

[Remote Observer]

I'm suspicious of the lack of a configuration diagram for the system. Tesla's marketing people have missed the chance to drive the product home to the market. Powering a conventional home (with existing electrical fit-outs) has always been problematic and without further technical information I remain a little skeptical!