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MrHorspwer
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- Feb 3, 2009
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I think there are a few people who don't really understand the purpose of the EPA's test and what the results should be used for.
The test is NOT a measure of the absolute MPG a given vehicle can attain. If you're a conscious driver and your particular driving environment suits the vehicle, you can easily surpass the EPA estimates in just about any vehicle.
The EPA estimates are a way to compare vehicle A to vehicle B using identical test methodologies. All cars are tested the same way, making the results as fair and equal as possible.
The test itself provides a mix of driving situations to come up with an "average" of sorts. They are not "set the cruise at 60 and see how much gas we use" tests. This is why it's easy to beat highway fuel economy numbers. There are lots of variables between each test: max speed, A/C on or off, max acceleration rate, ambient temperature, time , distance, and number of stops are just a few. All these variables can affect a vehicle's fuel economy.
The EPA tests try to provide a sampling of all those variables and condense it into a single, easy to digest number that a consumer can use to compare vehicle A to vehicle B. Maybe it's the websites, magazines, and bloggers who are on crack for trying to take the EPA test results and make a competition out of it?
If you'd like to see the exact tests, visit: http://fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml
The test is NOT a measure of the absolute MPG a given vehicle can attain. If you're a conscious driver and your particular driving environment suits the vehicle, you can easily surpass the EPA estimates in just about any vehicle.
The EPA estimates are a way to compare vehicle A to vehicle B using identical test methodologies. All cars are tested the same way, making the results as fair and equal as possible.
The test itself provides a mix of driving situations to come up with an "average" of sorts. They are not "set the cruise at 60 and see how much gas we use" tests. This is why it's easy to beat highway fuel economy numbers. There are lots of variables between each test: max speed, A/C on or off, max acceleration rate, ambient temperature, time , distance, and number of stops are just a few. All these variables can affect a vehicle's fuel economy.
The EPA tests try to provide a sampling of all those variables and condense it into a single, easy to digest number that a consumer can use to compare vehicle A to vehicle B. Maybe it's the websites, magazines, and bloggers who are on crack for trying to take the EPA test results and make a competition out of it?
If you'd like to see the exact tests, visit: http://fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml
This article explains how the EPA and all that works. It is very informative and shows how the EPA is another example of government inefficiency.
- Feb 18, 2006
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[citation][nom]dopeydog[/nom]lol haha, in England we have something known as DIESEL!!! BMW 320d gets 39/57 yet does 0-60 in 7.6s, 143mph and isn't some horrible econobox[/citation]
We have diesels over here too. However, people only get them over here if they want the large amount of torque a diesel engine provides. Diesel engines are considerably more expensive and heavier than gasoline engines, plus diesel fuel is more expensive than gasoline, sometimes by a fair amount. This makes diesels less economical to run than gasoline engines and why pretty much only things the size of a mid-sized SUV and bigger use them, with only European imports being the exception.
We have diesels over here too. However, people only get them over here if they want the large amount of torque a diesel engine provides. Diesel engines are considerably more expensive and heavier than gasoline engines, plus diesel fuel is more expensive than gasoline, sometimes by a fair amount. This makes diesels less economical to run than gasoline engines and why pretty much only things the size of a mid-sized SUV and bigger use them, with only European imports being the exception.
guys lets face it, these cars are fuel effiecient and all, but seriously, would you want to drive a tiny little car in these days where other drivers look at their cellphones then roads? And if safety's not a big concern for you,(if ur gettin a altima or somthing) these cars are ganna be absoloutly boring to drive!
who wants a car that makes a high pitched sound when u press the pedal?
who wants a car that makes a high pitched sound when u press the pedal?
IzzyCraft
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- Nov 20, 2008
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[citation][nom]dopeydog[/nom]lol haha, in England we have something known as DIESEL!!! BMW 320d gets 39/57 yet does 0-60 in 7.6s, 143mph and isn't some horrible econobox[/citation]
Diesel isn't a good alternative to gas, first it proves more power per volume but more is needed to burn at a given time. But Petroleum based diesel which is probalby the main form in england. Isn't necessarily cleaner per distance generated. And is definitely not an alternative to gasoline as it is already widely used.
How about you go suck GM's old EV1 100% eletric car does 0-60 in 8 secs stupid gm didn't want to produce it because they can't make money off it because electric cars don't have as much maintenance and thus parts to sell to it.
Problem with these cars is hybrids make it near impossible to make the car powerful or balanced for a performance package.
Because you have 2 engines you need 2 drive trains just creates an underpowered mess.
Diesel isn't a good alternative to gas, first it proves more power per volume but more is needed to burn at a given time. But Petroleum based diesel which is probalby the main form in england. Isn't necessarily cleaner per distance generated. And is definitely not an alternative to gasoline as it is already widely used.
How about you go suck GM's old EV1 100% eletric car does 0-60 in 8 secs stupid gm didn't want to produce it because they can't make money off it because electric cars don't have as much maintenance and thus parts to sell to it.
Problem with these cars is hybrids make it near impossible to make the car powerful or balanced for a performance package.
Because you have 2 engines you need 2 drive trains just creates an underpowered mess.
razor512
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- Jun 16, 2007
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What happens when the $6000+ lithium ion battery in the hybrid car stops holding a charge after a couple years?
there have been test where a hybrid car was put in a condition where the battery could not be used, and a regular car was put in the same situation and the hybrid car did worst than the gas hungry sports car
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKTOyiKLARk
a hybrid only does well when the load of driving can be shared between the engine and battery. If the engine is stressed (if you push the accelerator enough for that eco bar on the dashboard to go in the "power" section of the bat, your fuel economy suddenly takes a nosedive.
Li-ion does not last a long time, surely you ipod and laptop users will notice that. while the battery in the car is bigger and holds more power it is based on the same technology and will hold less and less of a charge until finally it doesn't hold any charge and your engine will permanently run at a higher RPM when idle because it will be trying to charge a battery that never finishes charging
A hybrid is ok is your leasing a car and will be getting another in like 2 years but if you buy to own, you will be in for some serious expenses when that battery gives out to a point where the gas engine wont even start.
A gas car, you replace the led-acid battery every 5-6 years for a cost of around $60. a hybrid, if the battery last that long, you spend $6000+ to change it.
there have been test where a hybrid car was put in a condition where the battery could not be used, and a regular car was put in the same situation and the hybrid car did worst than the gas hungry sports car
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKTOyiKLARk
a hybrid only does well when the load of driving can be shared between the engine and battery. If the engine is stressed (if you push the accelerator enough for that eco bar on the dashboard to go in the "power" section of the bat, your fuel economy suddenly takes a nosedive.
Li-ion does not last a long time, surely you ipod and laptop users will notice that. while the battery in the car is bigger and holds more power it is based on the same technology and will hold less and less of a charge until finally it doesn't hold any charge and your engine will permanently run at a higher RPM when idle because it will be trying to charge a battery that never finishes charging
A hybrid is ok is your leasing a car and will be getting another in like 2 years but if you buy to own, you will be in for some serious expenses when that battery gives out to a point where the gas engine wont even start.
A gas car, you replace the led-acid battery every 5-6 years for a cost of around $60. a hybrid, if the battery last that long, you spend $6000+ to change it.
cablechewer
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- Nov 12, 2008
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I don't know about this list. Around town I regularly get 5.5L/100km (41 US mpg, 49 imperial mpg) and on the highway I get 4.4L/100km (51.5 US mpg, 62 imperial mpg) on trips between Toronto and South Carolina. That is with a 2000 Golf TDI. My record was to get 1600km on a 55L tank of Diesel over flat terrain on a day that was cool enough to avoid opening the windows or using the air conditioning. That works out to 3.5L/100km (66 US mpg, 79 imperial mpg). I have had my car just over 9 years. I would love to keep it another 9 years because I don't see the improvement I hoped for in the car market. Tesla is moving in the right direction, but it will be a while before we have battery swap stations or sufficient fast charging capability to make my long trips possible. Maybe an electric can be used as an "around town" car to extend the service life of my "distance car"...
I digress - my two points
-if manufacturers sent more diesels to north america for crash testing the EPA would likely have at least some of them on their list
-I foolishly expected more of automakers when I bought my car. I expected fuel economy to have advanced further without the need for adding hybrid systems. Either it is not possible or there is no real incentive for the automakers to try (the incentive - at least in N.A. always seems to be horsepower).
I digress - my two points
-if manufacturers sent more diesels to north america for crash testing the EPA would likely have at least some of them on their list
-I foolishly expected more of automakers when I bought my car. I expected fuel economy to have advanced further without the need for adding hybrid systems. Either it is not possible or there is no real incentive for the automakers to try (the incentive - at least in N.A. always seems to be horsepower).
WarraWarra
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- Aug 19, 2007
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WOW so what about the 58mpg VW Jetta / TDI that has been around in the US from about 2004/2005 and everywhere else since 1984 in various forms ? 1984 = 48mpg Germany.
I owned a Jetta TDI and Golf TDI in 1999 already overseas with 58MPG avg consumption.
No Idea why it is hidden from everyone in the USA for so long.
Maybe has too much handling and performance, makes extremely slow 120mph roads in USA scary.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/automotive_news/4235586.html
"276. RE: 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDi Test Drive: Clean Diesel’s 50 MPG Meets Prius-Humbling Thrust
I have a 1998 Jetta TDI with over 300K! I love it - handles well, comfortable, zippy!! Would buy another in a heartbeat if I thought the MPG would be the same - worried about new numbers being much lower. Have gotten 55+ mpg for years, even driving 70+ mpg. Getting a little less with advanced age, but still going strong."
http://www.thecarblog.com/car_events/over-58-mpg-on-the-road-in-volkswagen-jetta-tdi.php
Hello World or small town USA not on Planet Earth the rest of us stay's in.
I owned a Jetta TDI and Golf TDI in 1999 already overseas with 58MPG avg consumption.
No Idea why it is hidden from everyone in the USA for so long.
Maybe has too much handling and performance, makes extremely slow 120mph roads in USA scary.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/automotive_news/4235586.html
"276. RE: 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDi Test Drive: Clean Diesel’s 50 MPG Meets Prius-Humbling Thrust
I have a 1998 Jetta TDI with over 300K! I love it - handles well, comfortable, zippy!! Would buy another in a heartbeat if I thought the MPG would be the same - worried about new numbers being much lower. Have gotten 55+ mpg for years, even driving 70+ mpg. Getting a little less with advanced age, but still going strong."
http://www.thecarblog.com/car_events/over-58-mpg-on-the-road-in-volkswagen-jetta-tdi.php
Hello World or small town USA not on Planet Earth the rest of us stay's in.
IzzyCraft
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- Nov 20, 2008
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[citation][nom]Razor512[/nom]What happens when the $6000+ lithium ion battery in the hybrid car stops holding a charge after a couple years?there have been test where a hybrid car was put in a condition where the battery could not be used, and a regular car was put in the same situation and the hybrid car did worst than the gas hungry sports carhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKTOyiKLARka hybrid only does well when the load of driving can be shared between the engine and battery. If the engine is stressed (if you push the accelerator enough for that eco bar on the dashboard to go in the "power" section of the bat, your fuel economy suddenly takes a nosedive.Li-ion does not last a long time, surely you ipod and laptop users will notice that. while the battery in the car is bigger and holds more power it is based on the same technology and will hold less and less of a charge until finally it doesn't hold any charge and your engine will permanently run at a higher RPM when idle because it will be trying to charge a battery that never finishes chargingA hybrid is ok is your leasing a car and will be getting another in like 2 years but if you buy to own, you will be in for some serious expenses when that battery gives out to a point where the gas engine wont even start.A gas car, you replace the led-acid battery every 5-6 years for a cost of around $60. a hybrid, if the battery last that long, you spend $6000+ to change it.[/citation]
If you lived in LA like i have you don't fucking care about waste that can be properly disposed of what you care about is somg. Fuck if you live in california all you care about is smog the shit that isn't green house gases but ground layer ozone the shit that makes outside unbearable. Guess What we can much easier treat fucking poison batteries and shit then we can remove shit from our air.
i curse to much T_T
If you lived in LA like i have you don't fucking care about waste that can be properly disposed of what you care about is somg. Fuck if you live in california all you care about is smog the shit that isn't green house gases but ground layer ozone the shit that makes outside unbearable. Guess What we can much easier treat fucking poison batteries and shit then we can remove shit from our air.
i curse to much T_T
I agree. Smog is bad in California but in SoCal (except for like San Diego) it is just ridiculous. Where I live is bad but LA is often worse. Sometimes when I go there it is painful to breathe.
I have often hypothesized that everyone in LA, single commuter traffic that is, should just ride motorcycles. Sure it would be like several Asian countries, but at least it would reduce smog/congestion and people would shut up about MPG and all that other crap.
I am still annoyed how they sell newer cars like they get better gas mileage than older "clunkers" when really they are far worse. It is all about emissions. My grandpa has always bought the 3/4 or 1 ton Dodge trucks, with good reason. He has been buying the diesel ones since they first started coming out in the late 80's. He had one of the 24 valve 5.9L Cummins motors in a mid 90's truck and it got 20MPG consistently. His new truck which is basically identical except that it is red and not a dually gets only 15MPG if he is very careful driving it.
I don't understand why the government and the manufacturers can not realize the great potential in big power and adequate gearing. STS turbo got a brand new corvette. Put on a twin turbo kit, nothing wild, just a mild tune, stock bottom end, motor, and what not. And then they drove it on the freeway and averaged 40MPG. Cars are starting to improve but there is no sense in having an Overdrive gear (or 2[or 3; yes I am talking to you BMW, Mercedes, Bugatti, and the like of you]) if your engine is not powerful enough to use it.
And just to screw with all of you I would like to inform you all that there are still a large number of people that drive Challengers from the 1970's with the 426 HEMI motors and the real low rear gears that average 8MPG. 8. Just consider that. I would say that we have improved at least a small bit since then. Just saying.
And yeah that is kind of funny about the lead acid batteries and how we can completely recycle and reuse every single component (lead and acid included). And then we can't seem to fix the air quality. I will say that it is not entirely man's fault. In big cities it is, but not everywhere else.
I have often hypothesized that everyone in LA, single commuter traffic that is, should just ride motorcycles. Sure it would be like several Asian countries, but at least it would reduce smog/congestion and people would shut up about MPG and all that other crap.
I am still annoyed how they sell newer cars like they get better gas mileage than older "clunkers" when really they are far worse. It is all about emissions. My grandpa has always bought the 3/4 or 1 ton Dodge trucks, with good reason. He has been buying the diesel ones since they first started coming out in the late 80's. He had one of the 24 valve 5.9L Cummins motors in a mid 90's truck and it got 20MPG consistently. His new truck which is basically identical except that it is red and not a dually gets only 15MPG if he is very careful driving it.
I don't understand why the government and the manufacturers can not realize the great potential in big power and adequate gearing. STS turbo got a brand new corvette. Put on a twin turbo kit, nothing wild, just a mild tune, stock bottom end, motor, and what not. And then they drove it on the freeway and averaged 40MPG. Cars are starting to improve but there is no sense in having an Overdrive gear (or 2[or 3; yes I am talking to you BMW, Mercedes, Bugatti, and the like of you]) if your engine is not powerful enough to use it.
And just to screw with all of you I would like to inform you all that there are still a large number of people that drive Challengers from the 1970's with the 426 HEMI motors and the real low rear gears that average 8MPG. 8. Just consider that. I would say that we have improved at least a small bit since then. Just saying.
And yeah that is kind of funny about the lead acid batteries and how we can completely recycle and reuse every single component (lead and acid included). And then we can't seem to fix the air quality. I will say that it is not entirely man's fault. In big cities it is, but not everywhere else.
jamesgoddard
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- Nov 12, 2005
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In the UK we are getting a new BMW 320d that does 70MPG UK - and converted to US will be 42/60 in your system - and still will crack 145MPH.... Who still wants a hybrid?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/new_car_reviews/article6813568.ece
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/new_car_reviews/article6813568.ece
praetorianguard
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- Aug 10, 2009
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These results are utterly pathetic. I have a petrol Opel sport coupe that gets better milage than that sad Prius and my friend's turbo Golf gets almost 60 MPG if he tries. We've got cars here capable of over 70 MPG (a couple close to 80 MPG). European cars are obviously more than twice as fuel efficient as the Americans', who wouldn't know efficiency if it got up and smacked them. Ridiculous!
At 55mph my UK Ford Fiesta Econetic diesel gets nearly 75MPG(US). Last week I managed a 120 mile round trip and got 72MPG. Around town I get about 55MPG. It was quite considerably cheaper than a Prius.
Having previously driven a petrol car, I've not noticed much difference. It perhaps doesn't sound as nice pulling away, but after 30mph you don't notice it much.
Having previously driven a petrol car, I've not noticed much difference. It perhaps doesn't sound as nice pulling away, but after 30mph you don't notice it much.
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