Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (
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"Benjamin Maas" <benmaas@nospamfifthcircle.com> wrote in message news:<LD14d.343715$8_6.136684@attbi_s04>...
> "ScotFraser" <scotfraser@aol.com> wrote in message ...
> > << IMHO, it is the lack of 'perfect' time alignment (when dealing with a
> > multi-miked, close miked drum kit), which provides the space that
> > makes the resulting kit have more 'size'. The more perfectly aligned
> > the tracks, the smaller the kit seems to sound. >>
> >
> > I agree 100%. I've found this to be true also with solo piano, guitar,
> > orchestra, just about everything. If additional non-point source miking is
> > involved, I usually do it to add space, ambience, fullness as a
> contribution of
> > the room. I definitely don't want the ambience to be time aligned with the
> > closer mics.
> >
> > Scott Fraser
>
> On a lot of this I agree, but with orchestras and other large ensembles
> (especially in a classical sense), I completely disagree with you here...
>
> Because of the time lag and the distance especially when you start dealing
> with woodwind spots in an orchestral setting, I find time alignment to be a
> necessity. Otherwise, you end up with an image where the woodwinds sound
> like they are closer to you than the violin section. Last time I looked,
> orchestras don't set up that way
~ When dealing with closer mics like
> solos, the time alignment helps deal with issues like comb filtering when
> the sound is hitting 2 mics at slightly different times (like the solo mic
> and the main pickup in front of the ensemble).
>
> With a "studio orchestra" I usually don't time align because the whole sound
> is that in-your-face, up-close-and-personal sound... Time alignment doesn't
> really help with that- add to that the fact that I usually mix stuff like
> that on a larger analog board, and time alignment is a pain or impossible to
> do. For chamber groups, it really depends on the situation- I'm trying to
> go more minimal for a lot of my gigs, but it doesn't always happen
> (especially with composers who usually write works that don't balance
> acoustically).
>
> I never time align ambience mics, though...
>
> --Ben
Two important basic issues here are *presedence* and the type of
source. As Ben points out, sounds that arrive first sound closer
(presedence) and for *acoustic* ensembles (orchestra, big band, jazz
group, etc.) accurate timing can impart a sense of realism. Or,
conversely, realism can be lost if these timing relationships are not
properly set up. This works for recording and for sound reinforcement.
There was a recent thread about this either here or in the live-sound
ng.
The second issue is about the type of source. For sounds with a longer
attack (string bass, tuba, etc.) our ear has less on which to go in
terms of determining presedence. Turns out something within 30ms or so
may not be noticed. But for sounds with a percussive attack
(percussion, some woodwinds, piano, classical guitar, etc.) our ears
are *very* sensitive to timing relationships. Here, we can often
resolve timing prolems down to 5ms or less. That's why for live gigs
with the big band, I usually set the main pa back to the drum set.
Made a world of difference in terms of the clarity and realism of the
sound. The biggest thing was that the sound appeared to be coming from
the band instead of the speakers...
Karl Winkler
Lectrosonics, Inc.
http
/www.lectrosonics.com
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