Voltage Converter Question

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Does anybody know who makes a 110 60hz to 220 50hz convertor?

TIA

Abbedd
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"ansermetniac" wrote ...
> Does anybody know who makes a 110 60hz to 220 50hz convertor?

Transformers for converting between 110v and 220v (in either direction)
are available in many places.

OTOH, converting the frequency between 50Hz and 60Hz is rather
expensive, but fortunately very rarely necessary.

Why do you think you need to convert the frequency? Likely no
equipment has been made in decades that is line/mains frequency
dependent. Unless you have an antique turntable or tape deck?
 
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On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:40:20 -0800, "Richard Crowley"
<rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote:

>"ansermetniac" wrote ...
>> Does anybody know who makes a 110 60hz to 220 50hz convertor?
>
>Transformers for converting between 110v and 220v (in either direction)
>are available in many places.
>
>OTOH, converting the frequency between 50Hz and 60Hz is rather
>expensive, but fortunately very rarely necessary.
>
>Why do you think you need to convert the frequency? Likely no
>equipment has been made in decades that is line/mains frequency
>dependent. Unless you have an antique turntable or tape deck?
>

I want to use a CD player from Europe. Do I need the frequency
conversion. I prefer the cd to spin at the proper speed :)

Abbedd
________________

Go To Abbedd's Place For the MP3S of the Week

http://home.earthlink.net/~abbedd/abbedd

Boycott Inglotted CDS
http://home.earthlink.net/~abbedd/noinglottecds.htm



"Knowing what without knowing why is not knowing what"
"If Music is important,then anti-Musicality is even more important"
___________________________________________________
"I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made."
FDR
 
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"ansermetniac" wrote ...
> I want to use a CD player from Europe. Do I need the frequency
> conversion. I prefer the cd to spin at the proper speed :)

Almost NO electronic equipment any more cares what the power/
mains frequency is. Certainly no CD players do (or ever did).
 
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"ansermetniac" wrote
>
> I want to use a CD player from Europe. Do I need the frequency
> conversion. I prefer the cd to spin at the proper speed :)
>
> Abbedd
> ________________

The CD speed isn't related to the mains frequency - they're *much* more
precise than that! The disc's spun by a DC servo motor locked to a quartz
crystal reference in all the CD players I've ever opened. As long as the AC
voltage is right, it should be fine.

Hope that helps,
Dave H.
(The engineer formerly known as Homeless)
 
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>> I want to use a CD player from Europe. Do I need the frequency
>> conversion. I prefer the cd to spin at the proper speed :)

>The CD speed isn't related to the mains frequency - they're *much* more
>precise than that! The disc's spun by a DC servo motor locked to a quartz
>crystal reference in all the CD players I've ever opened. As long as the AC
>voltage is right, it should be fine.

Well, it's rather less direct than that. The disc speed is actually
continuously variable - the disc spins at about 500 RPM when reading
from near the center (beginning) and slows down to about 200 RPM
when reading from the outer edge (end of the album). There's also
quite a bit of speed jitter in the disc rotation, as it's being driven
by a pretty cheap little DC motor which is being pulse-width modulated
by the system controller. The motor itself is not _directly_ locked
to the quartz crystal reference, in any CD player I've seen.

The quartz crystal speed-locking occurs on the digital data stream
when it comes out of the error-correction/buffer chip. The buffer
memory in this chip (in effect, a FIFO) smooths out the differences in
data speed between the (jittery) disc and the (very stable) quartz
clock.

Dave H. is quite correct, though, in stating that your CD player
almost certainly does not care about the AC line frequency. The AC is
simply being run through a transformer and rectifier, filtered, and
thus converted to stable DC. Moving a 50 Hz CD player to a 60 Hz
power system ought not to be a problem.

[Going the other way *might* be a problem. A transformer designed for
60 Hz power may not have enough winding reactance to be suitable for
use on a 50 Hz line, and might overheat as a result of excessive
current in the primary winding.]

--
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org> AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
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"Dave Platt" <dplatt@radagast.org> wrote in message
news:10s49vv546kjic6@corp.supernews.com
>
> Dave H. is quite correct, though, in stating that your CD player
> almost certainly does not care about the AC line frequency. The AC is
> simply being run through a transformer and rectifier, filtered, and
> thus converted to stable DC. Moving a 50 Hz CD player to a 60 Hz
> power system ought not to be a problem.


Stealing your line, it may rather less direct than that.

The last low cost optical disc player I took apart (Apex 1200) used a
switchmode power supply. I believe it was rated 90-250 volts, 50-60 Hz. They
just packed a different power cord, manual and burned ROM with models
destined for various countries.

This means that the AC power was rectified and filtered, turned into HF AC,
run through an itty-bitty transformer, and rectified and filtered again.
 
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In article <oLGdnamGtLe7t1_cRVn-jg@comcast.com>,
Arny Krueger <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote:
>"Dave Platt" <dplatt@radagast.org> wrote in message
>news:10s49vv546kjic6@corp.supernews.com
>>
>> Dave H. is quite correct, though, in stating that your CD player
>> almost certainly does not care about the AC line frequency. The AC is
>> simply being run through a transformer and rectifier, filtered, and
>> thus converted to stable DC. Moving a 50 Hz CD player to a 60 Hz
>> power system ought not to be a problem.
>
>
>Stealing your line, it may rather less direct than that.
>
>The last low cost optical disc player I took apart (Apex 1200) used a
>switchmode power supply. I believe it was rated 90-250 volts, 50-60 Hz. They
>just packed a different power cord, manual and burned ROM with models
>destined for various countries.
>
>This means that the AC power was rectified and filtered, turned into HF AC,
>run through an itty-bitty transformer, and rectified and filtered again.

Sheesh. Such complications. Next thing you know, they'll be
rectifying and filtering it, turning it into HF AC, running it through
the pulse transformer, and using the resulting HF currents to power
the muscles in a set of cybernetic gerbils who will spin a little cage
and run a generator to power the player.

:)

Good point about the switching supply, though. It's possible that the
original poster's CD player might have one of these, in which case
there's some chance that it's a "universal" type which, if plugged
into 110 VAC 60 Hz, would "just work".

--
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org> AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!
 
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"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote in message
news:10s4psjjfjroq27@corp.supernews.com...
> "ansermetniac" wrote ...
>> I want to use a CD player from Europe. Do I need the frequency
>> conversion. I prefer the cd to spin at the proper speed :)
>
> Almost NO electronic equipment any more cares what the power/
> mains frequency is. Certainly no CD players do (or ever did).
>

Alarm clocks, even digital. Use mains freq.

Chad
 
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In <cpuqod$iol$1@news.ks.uiuc.edu>, on 12/17/04
at 08:33 AM, "Chad Wahls" <cwahls@uiuc.edu> said:


>"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote in message
>news:10s4psjjfjroq27@corp.supernews.com...
>> "ansermetniac" wrote ...
>>> I want to use a CD player from Europe. Do I need the frequency
>>> conversion. I prefer the cd to spin at the proper speed :)
>>
>> Almost NO electronic equipment any more cares what the power/
>> mains frequency is. Certainly no CD players do (or ever did).
>>

>Alarm clocks, even digital. Use mains freq.

Yes, ,many electronic clocks count cycles, but they have an internal
clock that is accurate enough to determine if it is plugged into 50 or
60Hz and the cycle counting is adjusted accordingly. In industrial
nations with smooth running power grids, cycle counting results in very
accurate time keeping. Hour by hour a few cycles may slip, but the
power grid will make up for it later. As a result, the long term
accuracy is very good. In remote, off grid, or under developed areas,
power frequency control is not as good and clocks with accurate
internal time bases are more reliable.

You may be aware of how poor most personal computers are at time
keeping. Slipping a minute or two (or more) per month is about par.
(yes, some are more accurate, but it's a happy accident, most are not)
These clocks are usually crystal controled. In my experience (in the
US) a simple motor driven or electronic cycle counting clock (assuming
no outright power failures) is rarely off by more than a second or two
over a period of months.

Any more, inexpensive appliances must operate anywhere in the world. It
is much too expensive to have a fresh design for each region. There are
relatively minor differences to satisfy unique regulatory requirements
of different regions. For example, a unit that is considered "legally
safe" in the US, may not be "safe" in Europe. Multi-voltage units that
are "safe" in Europe, are not "safe" in the US. Power cords vary with
the map. That's why so many products come with an external power supply
and a multi-language instruction manual. Except for some minor
variations in language printed on the controls and setting an internal
switch for the display language, all the units are identical and can be
assembled in massive quantities of identical units -- there's no need
to slow down to customize for each country. It's a simple matter to
drop an appropriate power supply into the box before it is sealed.

-----------------------------------------------------------
spam: uce@ftc.gov
wordgame:123(abc):<14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15
13> (Barry Mann)
[sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox]
-----------------------------------------------------------
 
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Converting the frequency of the AC mains is possible, but would be very
expensive, especially for home use. For most devices the mains frequency is
not critical. For CD players, and VCR's, converting the frequency is not
necessary, as long as the power supply can work properly on 60 Hz in North
America. Almost all the switching power supplies, such that are used in CD
players, will not have a problem with the line frequency.

The disk velocity is not speed controlled from the AC mains frequency. It is
servo driven, and is working at a very precise velocity or RPM that is set
according to the buffer read requirements. The RPM can continuously vary
from about 200 RPM, through to about 500 RPM.

--

Jerry G.
=====

"ansermetniac" <ansermetniac@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ka74s094jadl73mnatdi2tqfrjch5lm6bj@4ax.com...
On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:40:20 -0800, "Richard Crowley"
<rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote:

>"ansermetniac" wrote ...
>> Does anybody know who makes a 110 60hz to 220 50hz convertor?
>
>Transformers for converting between 110v and 220v (in either direction)
>are available in many places.
>
>OTOH, converting the frequency between 50Hz and 60Hz is rather
>expensive, but fortunately very rarely necessary.
>
>Why do you think you need to convert the frequency? Likely no
>equipment has been made in decades that is line/mains frequency
>dependent. Unless you have an antique turntable or tape deck?
>

I want to use a CD player from Europe. Do I need the frequency
conversion. I prefer the cd to spin at the proper speed :)

Abbedd
________________

Go To Abbedd's Place For the MP3S of the Week

http://home.earthlink.net/~abbedd/abbedd

Boycott Inglotted CDS
http://home.earthlink.net/~abbedd/noinglottecds.htm



"Knowing what without knowing why is not knowing what"
"If Music is important,then anti-Musicality is even more important"
___________________________________________________
"I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made."
FDR
 
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"Barry Mann" <zzzz@zzzz.zzz> wrote in message
news:41c51860$1$avgroveq$mr2ice@wcnews.cyberonic.com...
> In <cpuqod$iol$1@news.ks.uiuc.edu>, on 12/17/04
> at 08:33 AM, "Chad Wahls" <cwahls@uiuc.edu> said:
>
>
>>"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote in message
>>news:10s4psjjfjroq27@corp.supernews.com...
>>> "ansermetniac" wrote ...
>>>> I want to use a CD player from Europe. Do I need the frequency
>>>> conversion. I prefer the cd to spin at the proper speed :)
>>>
>>> Almost NO electronic equipment any more cares what the power/
>>> mains frequency is. Certainly no CD players do (or ever did).
>>>
>
>>Alarm clocks, even digital. Use mains freq.
>
> Yes, ,many electronic clocks count cycles, but they have an internal
> clock that is accurate enough to determine if it is plugged into 50 or
> 60Hz and the cycle counting is adjusted accordingly. In industrial
> nations with smooth running power grids, cycle counting results in very
> accurate time keeping. Hour by hour a few cycles may slip, but the
> power grid will make up for it later. As a result, the long term
> accuracy is very good. In remote, off grid, or under developed areas,
> power frequency control is not as good and clocks with accurate
> internal time bases are more reliable.

That's true for time-keeping, but most microprocessor-controlled devices
such as CD players, simply use an internal quartz crystal timebase not tied
to the line frequency. They might not be extremely accurate, but they are
very reproducible, and certainly more than accurate enough for the
application at hand.

> You may be aware of how poor most personal computers are at time
> keeping. Slipping a minute or two (or more) per month is about par.
> (yes, some are more accurate, but it's a happy accident, most are not)
> These clocks are usually crystal controled. In my experience (in the
> US) a simple motor driven or electronic cycle counting clock (assuming
> no outright power failures) is rarely off by more than a second or two
> over a period of months.

Many computers can automatically sync up with Internet time servers, so they
are generally very accurate these days, even if they only connect
infrequently.

> Any more, inexpensive appliances must operate anywhere in the world. It
> is much too expensive to have a fresh design for each region. There are
> relatively minor differences to satisfy unique regulatory requirements
> of different regions. For example, a unit that is considered "legally
> safe" in the US, may not be "safe" in Europe. Multi-voltage units that
> are "safe" in Europe, are not "safe" in the US. Power cords vary with
> the map. That's why so many products come with an external power supply
> and a multi-language instruction manual. Except for some minor
> variations in language printed on the controls and setting an internal
> switch for the display language, all the units are identical and can be
> assembled in massive quantities of identical units -- there's no need
> to slow down to customize for each country. It's a simple matter to
> drop an appropriate power supply into the box before it is sealed.

Another reason manufacturers like to use wall-wart power supplies. That was
being debated on another thread in this NG.
 

Jim

Distinguished
Mar 31, 2004
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0
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"Karl Uppiano" <karl.uppiano@verizon.net> wrote in
news:Z5axd.263$L7.255@trnddc05:

>
> "Barry Mann" <zzzz@zzzz.zzz> wrote in message
> news:41c51860$1$avgroveq$mr2ice@wcnews.cyberonic.com...
>> In <cpuqod$iol$1@news.ks.uiuc.edu>, on 12/17/04
>> at 08:33 AM, "Chad Wahls" <cwahls@uiuc.edu> said:
>>
>>
>>>"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote in message
>>>news:10s4psjjfjroq27@corp.supernews.com...
>>>> "ansermetniac" wrote ...
>>>>> I want to use a CD player from Europe. Do I need the frequency
>>>>> conversion. I prefer the cd to spin at the proper speed :)
>>>>
>>>> Almost NO electronic equipment any more cares what the power/
>>>> mains frequency is. Certainly no CD players do (or ever did).
>>>>
>>
>>>Alarm clocks, even digital. Use mains freq.
>>
>> Yes, ,many electronic clocks count cycles, but they have an internal
>> clock that is accurate enough to determine if it is plugged into 50
>> or 60Hz and the cycle counting is adjusted accordingly. In industrial
>> nations with smooth running power grids, cycle counting results in
>> very accurate time keeping. Hour by hour a few cycles may slip, but
>> the power grid will make up for it later. As a result, the long term
>> accuracy is very good. In remote, off grid, or under developed areas,
>> power frequency control is not as good and clocks with accurate
>> internal time bases are more reliable.
>
> That's true for time-keeping, but most microprocessor-controlled
> devices such as CD players, simply use an internal quartz crystal
> timebase not tied to the line frequency. They might not be extremely
> accurate, but they are very reproducible, and certainly more than
> accurate enough for the application at hand.
>
>> You may be aware of how poor most personal computers are at time
>> keeping. Slipping a minute or two (or more) per month is about par.
>> (yes, some are more accurate, but it's a happy accident, most are
>> not) These clocks are usually crystal controled. In my experience (in
>> the US) a simple motor driven or electronic cycle counting clock
>> (assuming no outright power failures) is rarely off by more than a
>> second or two over a period of months.
>
> Many computers can automatically sync up with Internet time servers,
> so they are generally very accurate these days, even if they only
> connect infrequently.

If your computer doesn't already have software to do this, NISTIME is a
good application to acquire. It's available at a number of sites, a couple
of which are given below:

http://www.boulder.nist.gov/timefreq/service/its.htm
http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/file_description/0,fid,23895,00.asp

It can be run manually. If you have cable or DSL you can configure your
registry to run it at startup (a registry setup file is available at the
pcworld site), or you can add a startup link to it.

I've been using it for a couple of years now with no problems. One of my
PCs has the clock from hell. Loses about 30 seconds a day (and, no, its
not the battery).

>
>> Any more, inexpensive appliances must operate anywhere in the world.
>> It is much too expensive to have a fresh design for each region.
>> There are relatively minor differences to satisfy unique regulatory
>> requirements of different regions. For example, a unit that is
>> considered "legally safe" in the US, may not be "safe" in Europe.
>> Multi-voltage units that are "safe" in Europe, are not "safe" in the
>> US. Power cords vary with the map. That's why so many products come
>> with an external power supply and a multi-language instruction
>> manual. Except for some minor variations in language printed on the
>> controls and setting an internal switch for the display language, all
>> the units are identical and can be assembled in massive quantities of
>> identical units -- there's no need to slow down to customize for each
>> country. It's a simple matter to drop an appropriate power supply
>> into the box before it is sealed.
>
> Another reason manufacturers like to use wall-wart power supplies.
> That was being debated on another thread in this NG.
>
>

Please don't go _there_ again!


-- JS
 
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>> Another reason manufacturers like to use wall-wart power supplies.
>> That was being debated on another thread in this NG.
>>
>>
>
> Please don't go _there_ again!

But we were having so much fun! :)
 
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