Only a completely brainwashed reich-wing water carrier could possibly blame the media for the incompetence of Commie-Mart AND the actions of the public. Jebus, you "people" really are morons.
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I'm confused on how waiting for a sale makes someone greedy. I'm also confused as to how having a sale(which wasn't even that good.) should mean that you need riot police and tear gas. The only people to blame here are the people who killed someone.
Wal-Mart has deep pockets and I'm sure they will make a big pay out to try and minimize the bad press, but it is idiotic. I don't care much for their business practices. However, it is in no way a requirement for them to have doors that withstand a mob trying to beat them down.
Did the store close down or did they carry on business as usual while emergency crews were tending to the victim? It seems utterly indecent if they just carried on business, and is perhaps more telling about the character of the people than the initial incident.
Wal-Mart has deep pockets and I'm sure they will make a big pay out to try and minimize the bad press, but it is idiotic. I don't care much for their business practices. However, it is in no way a requirement for them to have doors that withstand a mob trying to beat them down.
Did the store close down or did they carry on business as usual while emergency crews were tending to the victim? It seems utterly indecent if they just carried on business, and is perhaps more telling about the character of the people than the initial incident.
You know who I blame? The police. Where the hell were they? I will tell you where they were. Probably at the local Dunckin Donuts. The police should have known that Black Friday Shoppers act like animals when there is a deal to be made and should have been there to keep order. Shame on them! They have just added more blood to their already bloody hands.
Tomsguiderachel
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- May 16, 2008
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Insightful comments, everyone. But I would simply suggest that history has shown us simply calling for people (crowds) to resist the mob would be fruitless. I think that's why Tony is choosing the retailer as the responsible party. Large groups of people have a very difficult time resisting herd mentality--blaming the herd isn't productive since we haven't yet learned how to control human behavior. Wal-Mart on the other hand, can effectively change its policy.
Rachel Rosmarin, Editor of Tom's Guide
Rachel Rosmarin, Editor of Tom's Guide
I use to work at Best Buy and their way of doing black friday works. They make sure everyone is in line and they only let in as many people as the store can comfortably hold so your not being trampled. Sure its the peoples fault for caring more about saving a few bucks than the people around them, but Walmart could have also lessened that from happening.
I do like the lottery idea, this way you can go to a store a couple days before the sale and pick up your ticket and you know when you'll get in. They should have a time on the ticket instead of a number this way you know if you get 3pm its 3pm and your not waiting for number 238 to come up like when your waiting at a bakery. It should be more of an appointment type system, and it should say approx. 3pm so if their are to many people in the store you may have to wait a bit until people leave. Since people can't show responsibility then the store should, its sad but thats the way it looks like it'll have to go.
I do like the lottery idea, this way you can go to a store a couple days before the sale and pick up your ticket and you know when you'll get in. They should have a time on the ticket instead of a number this way you know if you get 3pm its 3pm and your not waiting for number 238 to come up like when your waiting at a bakery. It should be more of an appointment type system, and it should say approx. 3pm so if their are to many people in the store you may have to wait a bit until people leave. Since people can't show responsibility then the store should, its sad but thats the way it looks like it'll have to go.
[citation][nom]clay12340[/nom]Wal-Mart has deep pockets and I'm sure they will make a big pay out to try and minimize the bad press...[/citation]
Well, I'm pleased to say that they obviously didn't get to me or Rachel.
In response to the many comments regarding whether we should hold the media, or the crowd, or the police, or the retailer responsible for making sure that this never happens again:
It's the retailers that are promoting the Black Friday event, the retailers that are creating the risk, the retailers that are profiting from the event, and thus the retailer's responsibility to take steps to ensure that their event doesn't KILL anyone. That hardly seems like too much to ask.
Well, I'm pleased to say that they obviously didn't get to me or Rachel.
In response to the many comments regarding whether we should hold the media, or the crowd, or the police, or the retailer responsible for making sure that this never happens again:
It's the retailers that are promoting the Black Friday event, the retailers that are creating the risk, the retailers that are profiting from the event, and thus the retailer's responsibility to take steps to ensure that their event doesn't KILL anyone. That hardly seems like too much to ask.
techtre2003
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- Feb 17, 2006
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[citation][nom]TCeleste[/nom]It's the retailers that are promoting the Black Friday event, the retailers that are creating the risk, the retailers that are profiting from the event, and thus the retailer's responsibility to take steps to ensure that their event doesn't KILL anyone. That hardly seems like too much to ask.[/citation]
I guess it seems like too much to ask for people to have some sort of decency too? I must have missed something, but I didn't see anything at Wal-Mart that I couldn't get somewhere else online or at another store either on Black Friday or any other time for a few bucks more. Has our society gotten so F'd up that we trample and kill someone to save a few bucks?
EVERYONE knows that there are only a handful of the "doorbuster" items to go around; they even state in the ads what the "minimum" number is (usually the same as the "maximum" I'm sure). Common sense says when you pull into Wal-Mart and there are already X amount of people in line, you are too late to the party. But instead of getting back in their cars and moving on with their lives, these people find it necessary to behave like they were raised by wolves and bum rush the store. Is this really how these people were raised to behave this way?
I wonder if any of those people that did the trampling have any remorse? Or do they just "blame the retailer" too so they can justify their actions and feel OK with what they were a part of.
It makes me sick to see a Holiday that is supposed to celebrate the birth of Christ become the spectacle it is today. Sure, the retailers and media don't do their part to help, but are we all just blind sheep following the path they lay? No, each and every one of us decides our own actions.
I guess it seems like too much to ask for people to have some sort of decency too? I must have missed something, but I didn't see anything at Wal-Mart that I couldn't get somewhere else online or at another store either on Black Friday or any other time for a few bucks more. Has our society gotten so F'd up that we trample and kill someone to save a few bucks?
EVERYONE knows that there are only a handful of the "doorbuster" items to go around; they even state in the ads what the "minimum" number is (usually the same as the "maximum" I'm sure). Common sense says when you pull into Wal-Mart and there are already X amount of people in line, you are too late to the party. But instead of getting back in their cars and moving on with their lives, these people find it necessary to behave like they were raised by wolves and bum rush the store. Is this really how these people were raised to behave this way?
I wonder if any of those people that did the trampling have any remorse? Or do they just "blame the retailer" too so they can justify their actions and feel OK with what they were a part of.
It makes me sick to see a Holiday that is supposed to celebrate the birth of Christ become the spectacle it is today. Sure, the retailers and media don't do their part to help, but are we all just blind sheep following the path they lay? No, each and every one of us decides our own actions.
The retailer is defintely partly to blame. They set up these scenarios by running these early bird discounts that last 30 minutes.
BUT our American society is reaping what we have sown. Our 24/7 mentality has made us a people who expect to get what we want RIGHT NOW. Politeness and patience have gone by the wayside. Rudeness and impatience is the order of the day. Bring back the blue laws- let's relearn how to be patient.
BUT our American society is reaping what we have sown. Our 24/7 mentality has made us a people who expect to get what we want RIGHT NOW. Politeness and patience have gone by the wayside. Rudeness and impatience is the order of the day. Bring back the blue laws- let's relearn how to be patient.
Best Buy is NOT the only retailer to do this thing that you said only they do. For one thing Circuit City has been handing out vouchers for their major door buster deals for years now. This year they had about 11 different vouchers that they were handing out. Check your facts before you start advertising for ONE retailer only. Just because you've only shopped at Best Buy on Black Friday and seen this thing happen doesn't mean they are the only one's that do that.
Be careful what you post as truth and facts. You start pointing your finger at every retailer except for one, people might start to wonder if you're a Best Buy "FAN BOY".
Be careful what you post as truth and facts. You start pointing your finger at every retailer except for one, people might start to wonder if you're a Best Buy "FAN BOY".
shawnpaul3
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- May 31, 2006
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[citation][nom]PigKilla[/nom]You know who I blame? The police. Where the hell were they? I will tell you where they were. Probably at the local Dunckin Donuts. The police should have known that Black Friday Shoppers act like animals when there is a deal to be made and should have been there to keep order. Shame on them! They have just added more blood to their already bloody hands.[/citation]
More likely the police were just down the street running a speed trap. Wow! To serve and protect. Nice motto. I see, hear about, and experience little to none of this from our "fine" police force anymore. I have friends and neighbors who are police. The more I get to know them, the less I respect them.
More likely the police were just down the street running a speed trap. Wow! To serve and protect. Nice motto. I see, hear about, and experience little to none of this from our "fine" police force anymore. I have friends and neighbors who are police. The more I get to know them, the less I respect them.
I work at Office Depot and we use the ticket system. It is the best system by far because it doesn't lead to people rushing to the front of the line since they are guaranteed that laptop they waited in line for, which means people walk in pretty much single file. This was my 4th black friday, and the worst thing that ever happened was the power went out the year 30 minutes after we opened for a second, and we had to wait 10 minutes for the registers to come back up.
While wal-mart could have done something like this to prevent that kind of rush, I don't blame them completely. In the end, it was the savage customers destroying each other after waiting in line to give them money.
And for the record, all those people thinking this is a day for making a profit...electronics don't make the retailer money. The retailer pays pretty much what the customer pays to get that laptop in their store in the first place. I think our store lost somewhere around $13K in profit that day. So don't say that it's a big scheme from retailers to make money, because that is the last thing we expect to do that day.
While wal-mart could have done something like this to prevent that kind of rush, I don't blame them completely. In the end, it was the savage customers destroying each other after waiting in line to give them money.
And for the record, all those people thinking this is a day for making a profit...electronics don't make the retailer money. The retailer pays pretty much what the customer pays to get that laptop in their store in the first place. I think our store lost somewhere around $13K in profit that day. So don't say that it's a big scheme from retailers to make money, because that is the last thing we expect to do that day.
hellwig
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I think there's something about Wal-mart shoppers in general. When I lived near a 24-hour walmart, I always did my shopping at 2 in the morning. I couldn't stand going during the day and getting shoved around by people who just don't seem to care you exist, only that you are blocking off those 97-cent cookies. And I'm talking about normal shopping, imagine when these people are riled-up on coffee, lack of sleep, and the promise of cheap products.
I also don't understand how people are trying to dismiss the greed argument. Yeah, not everyone has that extra $100 to buy the normal-priced TV. But a considerably larger amount of people don't even have the $700 to buy the discounted TV in the first place. No one's life is worth a cheap TV. So you have to watch the super bowl on your old 19-inch CRT or at a friends house, at least you can say you've never stomped someone to death. This country has an attitude of "I must have it right now this very minute". We long ago lost the "what can I really live without" mentality. This is why people buy homes they can't afford, then go out and trample someone to buy a $700 TV they probably also can't afford.
To this end I guess some blame does rest on the manufacturers and retailers. Most of the reason people have this need for stuff is because modern society makes them feel they are less than human if they don't have stuff (TV commercials and product placements). Though I wouldn't really blame Walmart for promoting a life of luxury, but maybe the semblance of one. Like that commercial saying you could save $300 a year buying Walmart pizzas instead of delivery. How about cooking something nutricious and skipping pizza altogether? You'll save a lot more on family health bills that way.
I also don't understand how people are trying to dismiss the greed argument. Yeah, not everyone has that extra $100 to buy the normal-priced TV. But a considerably larger amount of people don't even have the $700 to buy the discounted TV in the first place. No one's life is worth a cheap TV. So you have to watch the super bowl on your old 19-inch CRT or at a friends house, at least you can say you've never stomped someone to death. This country has an attitude of "I must have it right now this very minute". We long ago lost the "what can I really live without" mentality. This is why people buy homes they can't afford, then go out and trample someone to buy a $700 TV they probably also can't afford.
To this end I guess some blame does rest on the manufacturers and retailers. Most of the reason people have this need for stuff is because modern society makes them feel they are less than human if they don't have stuff (TV commercials and product placements). Though I wouldn't really blame Walmart for promoting a life of luxury, but maybe the semblance of one. Like that commercial saying you could save $300 a year buying Walmart pizzas instead of delivery. How about cooking something nutricious and skipping pizza altogether? You'll save a lot more on family health bills that way.
waffle911
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"A person is smart. People are dumb." - Agent K. Men In Black
Chances are, the people trampling the person to death:
A. Did not realize it
B. Were being shoved forward by people who could not see the "obstruction" nor could they grasp the laws of common physics that multiple objects cannot ever occupy the same space at the same point in time, hence the broken front glass doors.
C. As for the people behind them, "hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil." They were shouting too loudly to hear the people shrieking to get back or the cries for help; they were too huddled together in too large a group that they could not see what they were causing; with a crowd like that, do you really think Wal$Mart is going to try and shut the store down and risk causing mass hysteria among a mob of people who would start to panic and shout things about what is happening that are completely untrue? "Somebody call an ambulance! She's been trampled!"-->"Somebody call an ambulance! She's been shot!"-->"Everyone please remain calm and get down on the floor. The store is in lockdown because of suspected criminal mischief."-->"Somebody's gotta gun we're being robbed I don't want to die!"
You see my point. Maybe.
Humanity has never been better than a herd of lemmings. They run off a cliff en masse only because the ones behind them shove them forward but cannot see the cliff ahead. Crowd control is absolutely the responsibility of the retailer. Of course, putting the best deals online won't really help because even when it's the cheapest it's ever going to be, people will still pay a premium for instant gratification. It's like candy. It's there and you can have it now for cheap. Impulse buy. Or, you can order it in bulk and get it cheaper but have to wait longer. No longer an impulse buy.
Chances are, the people trampling the person to death:
A. Did not realize it
B. Were being shoved forward by people who could not see the "obstruction" nor could they grasp the laws of common physics that multiple objects cannot ever occupy the same space at the same point in time, hence the broken front glass doors.
C. As for the people behind them, "hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil." They were shouting too loudly to hear the people shrieking to get back or the cries for help; they were too huddled together in too large a group that they could not see what they were causing; with a crowd like that, do you really think Wal$Mart is going to try and shut the store down and risk causing mass hysteria among a mob of people who would start to panic and shout things about what is happening that are completely untrue? "Somebody call an ambulance! She's been trampled!"-->"Somebody call an ambulance! She's been shot!"-->"Everyone please remain calm and get down on the floor. The store is in lockdown because of suspected criminal mischief."-->"Somebody's gotta gun we're being robbed I don't want to die!"
You see my point. Maybe.
Humanity has never been better than a herd of lemmings. They run off a cliff en masse only because the ones behind them shove them forward but cannot see the cliff ahead. Crowd control is absolutely the responsibility of the retailer. Of course, putting the best deals online won't really help because even when it's the cheapest it's ever going to be, people will still pay a premium for instant gratification. It's like candy. It's there and you can have it now for cheap. Impulse buy. Or, you can order it in bulk and get it cheaper but have to wait longer. No longer an impulse buy.
blame the retailer because they have money to pay off the dead worker's lawer. That's all it is.
The shoppers are poor although they are the one that step all over him.
The shoppers are poor although they are the one that step all over him.
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