Waste Tax Payers Dollars With Balloon Boy Game

[ArgleBargle]

[citation][nom]jellico[/nom]No, actually, let's bring it up. First of all, let's get your facts straight.[/citation]

Unfortunately, you really aren't the one doing this.

[citation][nom]jellico[/nom]To date, the Iraq war has cost $692 billion. This for a military action, running for over six and a half years, against a totalitarian government known to use WMDs against its own people,[/citation]

Are you still one of those people who actually believe Iraq had WMD's? Even after Bush's own administration admitted years later that there weren't?

[citation][nom]jellico[/nom]And al-Qaida terrorists escaped from Afghanistan are known to be in Iraq.[/citation]
And Pakistan. But I don't see any military action there.

[citation][nom]jellico[/nom]The results of that military action are undisputable. A ruthless dictator and his barbaric sons are dead. [/citation]

The ruthless dictator who was buddy-buddy with many of those in the Bush administration years before. That is, until he decided he wanted more control of Iraq's oil.

[citation][nom]jellico[/nom] 28 million people who lived under the iron heel of The Butcher of Baghdad, who is known to have killed about two million people, are free.[/citation]

Are they? So is that why the US military is still entrenched there? Is that why Blackwater's goons freely killed Iraqi civilians? What about Kim Jong Il, who I would say is more of a butcher than Saddam Hussein ever was? Where is the holier-than-thou might of the U.S. military in North Korea? Oh, right, N.K. has no oil, so they are of little interest to the U.S. military and its "liberation" policies.


[citation][nom]jellico[/nom]Now, compare that to the "Stimulus Package." This has saved or created maybe 30,000 jobs (which is insignificant next to the 10,000,000 jobs we've lost) at an estimated immediate increase to the national debt of $1,400,000,000,000! Barack Obama has, in a very short 9 months, increased our deficit more then the sum of all the deficits we had for the first 200 years that this country existed![/citation]

Right, Obama's administration did ALL that, in 9 months, with the surplus that the Bush administration had to begin with (that was sarcasm, by the way). And the Bush administration had NOTHING to do with the stimulus. Nope, nosiree. Do you get your propaganda...er, news, from Fox, by any chance?

[citation][nom]jellico[/nom]You want to keep going? We can talk about the unchecked cost of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Public Education (given the abysmal performance of our system, it's awefully hard to justify this as a continued federal expense). [/citation]

Yes, let's keep going. Let's talk about the unchecked cost of private health care in the U.S. which is bankrupting so many individuals and businesses. And really, were you publicly educated? If so, based on your comments, I'll agree with its abysmal performance.

[citation][nom]jellico[/nom] So spare us your self-righteous indignation and sanctimonious hand ringing.[/citation]

As long as you agree to stop parroting the right-wing extremists who helped bring the U.S. to its woeful state today.

 

[the_krasno]

You are Irish? How nice! I love the Irish accent, it's so sexy ^_^

 

[cookoy]

hi Jane from Dublin, in case you decide to pull off a balloon stunt like that, i'll skip this dumb game and play yours! Heene-thing more?

 

[JMcEntegart]

[citation][nom]the_krasno[/nom]You are Irish? How nice! I love the Irish accent, it's so sexy ^_^[/citation]

I sound like a female Colin Farrell. Trust me, it's not sexy.

[citation][nom]cookoy[/nom]hi Jane from Dublin, in case you decide to pull off a balloon stunt like that, i'll skip this dumb game and play yours! Heene-thing more?[/citation]

Sorry dude, I'm spoken for.

Besides, we're all missing the big picture here. We have to play France in the play-offs. FRANCE.

 

[gaevs]

Well, that's exactly my kind of wheather... dunno why..

 

[gaevs]

BTW Jane, you seem to be the only one who read the posts.. thanks..

 

[Gin Fushicho]

The second I saw "Boy was hiding in the attic" on a TV I thought to my self "fucking fakers"

 

[jellico]

[citation][nom]Arglebargle[/nom]Unfortunately, you really aren't the one doing this.
Are you still one of those people who actually believe Iraq had WMD's? Even after Bush's own administration admitted years later that there weren't?[/citation]
Facts are facts, your unwillingness to accept them does not change that.

Iraq DID have weapons of mass destruction (chemical and biological weapons are classified as WMDs). They used them against the Kurds.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/march/16/newsid_4304000/4304853.stm

They were also used in the Iran-Iraq war, as well as in an terrorist attack in Iraq in 2004.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4997808/

[citation]The ruthless dictator who was buddy-buddy with many of those in the Bush administration years before. That is, until he decided he wanted more control of Iraq's oil.[/citation]
Talk about believing extremist propaganda. Saddam Hussein wasn't "buddy-buddy" with anyone in the United States since the 80s when we were supporting him because he was keeping Iran in check. Starting with his attempt to annex Kuwait in the early 90s, he became nothing but a thorn in our side and a destabilizing force in the middle east.

As for Iraq's oil, that was under UN sanctions (and hence, UN control and supposed supervision) since the end of the gulf war. The Iraq Oil for Food Scandal, is perhaps what you were remembering. It involved high ranking members of the UN as well as suspected involvement of the French and the Russians. Neither Bush nor the United States were involved.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4131602.stm
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/US/05/03/un.oil.for.food.letter/

[citation]So is that why the US military is still entrenched there? Is that why Blackwater's goons freely killed Iraqi civilians? What about Kim Jong Il, who I would say is more of a butcher than Saddam Hussein ever was? Where is the holier-than-thou might of the U.S. military in North Korea? Oh, right, N.K. has no oil, so they are of little interest to the U.S. military and its "liberation" policies.[/citation]
You proceed from a false assumption. I am not the sort who things we should be sending troops all over the world to try and liberate them. I was simply providing factual counter-point to, yet another, innane statement about the amount we spent in the Iraqi war as justification for Obama's record shattering deficit spending.

Personally, I have never subscribed to the idea that we can fix other peoples' problems or that we can bring peace and democracy to those who aren't willing to fight for it themselves. I think we should have obliterated Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, as well as kicking the Taliban in the nuts as a warning to those who would offer safe harbor to our enemies. What I think we should do with North Korea and Iran is what we probably should have done with Iraq: have the president make a live television broadcast and issue a statement in no uncertain terms: If you use chemical, biological and/or nuclear weapons against us or our allies, we will respond with a full-nuclear assault.

[citation]Right, Obama's administration did ALL that, in 9 months, with the surplus that the Bush administration had to begin with (that was sarcasm, by the way). And the Bush administration had NOTHING to do with the stimulus.[/citation]
Actually, he did. The $1.4 trillion that I mentioned is the cost of the Stimulus Package (and other deficit spending in 2009), as well as the short term cost to service that portion of the debt.

The fiscal mistakes of G.W. Bush include Medicare part D, the stimulus of 2008 and TARP. I don't agree with those either; and it's a demonstration of your partisan political bias to assume that I do.

[citation]Yes, let's keep going. Let's talk about the unchecked cost of private health care in the U.S. which is bankrupting so many individuals and businesses.[/citation]
Ok, let's talk about that. Let's assume you are correct and the cost of private health care is causing a hardship to companies and individuals (it's not, but we'll pretend that it is). Why in god's name would you want to shift this burden to the taxpayers?! The country is already massively in debt, wildly over spending, tens of trillions in unfunded obligations, and you think we should double-down on that?! Are you insane?

No for a little truth about the health care industry. After World War II, there were wage controls in place that prevented companies from offering higher salaries for given positions in order to attract skilled employees. So, they started offering health care coverage. Prior to that, the vast majority of people in the country didn't have health care coverage. They simply went to the doctor when they were sick and paid a nominal fee for service and treatment.

The HMO movement was born during this post-war period. These were all encompassing healthcare plans that were marketed to large companies to offer their prospective employees. Unfortunately, the after-birth of healthcare came into being as well: Medicare/Medicaid. You see, unlike regular healthcare plans, which are negotiated, CMS (the Center for Medicare/Medicaide Services) DICTATES to hospitals how much they will pay based on grouped diagnosis codes called DRGs. The amounts they pay are WAY below cost for the hospitals, so in order to compensate for that and for the treatment of the indigent population (not to mention the cost of malpractice and liability insurance), they have to charge that much more to everyone else. THAT is where your skyrocketing healthcare costs come from.

Don't believe me? A perfect analog of the healthcare industry is the veterinary field. There is very little regulation, compared to human healthcare. Malpractice insurance is dirty cheap. Drugs and treatment procedures are cheap. You can walk in with a sick animal and be seen in a very short period of time. Even with something as "catastrophic" as surgery or cancer treatment, the cost is typically in the $1000 - $5000 range. Compare that with the treatment of a human for a similar situation and you're looking at a cost difference of 50 to 100 times!

Want more? Ok, let's talk about how the ONE thing that would bring an immediate reduction in the cost of healthcare is the ONE thing that no one in congress is mentioning: TORT REFORM. And why is that? Is it because most of them are LAWYERS? Or is it because the biggest lobbying group in congress is the Trial Lawyers Association? Let's face it, with few exceptions, lawyers are the most self-serving people you will ever know. They inject themselves into every aspect of our lives, yet they add nothing of substance or real value. They profess mastery of knowledge that they clear do not have, and proceed to dictate to the masses based upon that erroneous assumption. They have the power to destroy people's lives, yet seldomly do they act from noble intentions.

I could keep going, but I trust I've made my point.

 

[Annisman]

Dang, Jellico knows his stuff! You don't happen to listen to Mark Levin on a regular basis....the George Patton of talk radio...

 

[Guest]

You guys are arguing about two wings of the same F@#$ed up bird.

Just the way they want you... entertained, "informed", and utterly stupid masses arguing about the things they've already accomplished.

 

[Shadow703793]

Poor kid. That name's going to be stuck with him FOREVER.

 

[Regulas]

[citation][nom]joebob2000[/nom]Don't make me bring up the Iraq war 'emergency funding' (Courtesy of G.W. Bush) that added about 1,000,000,000,000 to the national debt, and was only marginally effective at creating jobs.[/citation]

Your an idiot, oh mean liberal kook idiot

 

[tester24]

[citation][nom]jellico[/nom]No, actually, let's bring it up. First of all, let's get your facts straight. To date, the Iraq war has cost $692 billion. This for a military action, running for over six and a half years, against a totalitarian government known to use WMDs against its own people, sponsor terrorism in foreign countries, and who's continued refusal to abide by UN inspection guidelines led to 11 resolutions, the last of which warned of military action for "...violation of Security Council Resolution 1373, Iraq support terrorist organizations that direct violence against Iran, Israel, and Western governments....And al-Qaida terrorists escaped from Afghanistan are known to be in Iraq."The results of that military action are undisputable. A ruthless dictator and his barbaric sons are dead. 28 million people who lived under the iron heel of The Butcher of Baghdad, who is known to have killed about two million people, are free.Now, compare that to the "Stimulus Package." This has saved or created maybe 30,000 jobs (which is insignificant next to the 10,000,000 jobs we've lost) at an estimated immediate increase to the national debt of $1,400,000,000,000! Barack Obama has, in a very short 9 months, increased our deficit more then the sum of all the deficits we had for the first 200 years that this country existed!You want to keep going? We can talk about the unchecked cost of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Public Education (given the abysmal performance of our system, it's awefully hard to justify this as a continued federal expense). Those four items, right there, constitute the lion's share of the federal budget. We have over $50,000,000,000,000 in unfunded obligations because of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. So spare us your self-righteous indignation and sanctimonious hand ringing.[/citation]

a man after my own heart

 

[coolronz]

Tax payers dollars...? I'm a tax payer! But I know that here in Canada I've yet to pay taxes on money the our government has already spent. I've seen a the government pump $600,000,000 into a pulp mill up north only to run for another one year.... For 1000 jobs... Thats $600,000 per employee for one year.. And it happens alot!!! No country is exempt when it comes to trying to keep our standard of living up. Whether it be in our own back yard or across the globe, lets face it, its gonna cost us... But what really sucks is when money is wasted when it could have been avoided...

 

[brendano257]

I love to watch people bicker in politics and throw around "absolute truths and rights and wrongs", do I believe there is such a thing? Yes, but I've given up on finding it in politics. When you vote all your really picking is the lesser of evils, and most likely never enough good to outweigh the bad.

 

[JMcEntegart]

[citation][nom]gaevs[/nom]BTW Jane, you seem to be the only one who read the posts.. thanks..[/citation]

No problem!

 

[geminireaper]

[citation][nom]jellico[/nom]No, actually, let's bring it up. First of all, let's get your facts straight. To date, the Iraq war has cost $692 billion. This for a military action, running for over six and a half years, against a totalitarian government known to use WMDs against its own people, sponsor terrorism in foreign countries, and who's continued refusal to abide by UN inspection guidelines led to 11 resolutions, the last of which warned of military action for "...violation of Security Council Resolution 1373, Iraq support terrorist organizations that direct violence against Iran, Israel, and Western governments....And al-Qaida terrorists escaped from Afghanistan are known to be in Iraq."The results of that military action are undisputable. A ruthless dictator and his barbaric sons are dead. 28 million people who lived under the iron heel of The Butcher of Baghdad, who is known to have killed about two million people, are free.Now, compare that to the "Stimulus Package." This has saved or created maybe 30,000 jobs (which is insignificant next to the 10,000,000 jobs we've lost) at an estimated immediate increase to the national debt of $1,400,000,000,000! Barack Obama has, in a very short 9 months, increased our deficit more then the sum of all the deficits we had for the first 200 years that this country existed!You want to keep going? We can talk about the unchecked cost of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Public Education (given the abysmal performance of our system, it's awefully hard to justify this as a continued federal expense). Those four items, right there, constitute the lion's share of the federal budget. We have over $50,000,000,000,000 in unfunded obligations because of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. So spare us your self-righteous indignation and sanctimonious hand ringing.[/citation]

Yeah blame this whole thing on Obama. He has been here 9 months...GW Bush has been putting this country in the toilet for 8 yrs and you expect President Obama to pull it out in 9 months. Your delusional and a total Republican Dbag to boot.

 

[LATTEH]

wait... whos balloon boy?

 

[mlopinto2k1]

[citation][nom]gamerjames[/nom]^ You just brought it up yourself. Idiot.[/citation]
Aren't you just the smart ass... it's a figure of SPEECH, IDIOT.

 

[nforce4max]

Just imagine what could have been done with the $26.4 trillion looted over the years in this nation by the elites and their gamboling house called Wall Street. If any one wants to know ware this country is really heading just take a loot at Detroit and the corruption in city management.