4k on laptops?

[Seemly]

I bought a Lenovo Y50 (4k version) and it's coming on it's way. However, some people tell me it's not good, and that it decreases performance. Why?

 

[photonboy]

I am not worried much about gaming (I will give 1080p a try even if it won't work out well) but I am worried about video editing, I am an animator that uses c4d and that program is pretty demanding. I would say the same for premiere

There are TWO things being discussed here then:

1. Interface:
That is what 4K vs 1080p means. You have more pixels so can afford to decrease the font size relative to the same at 1080p so basically a bit more on screen or simply sharper.

2. Processing:
a) CPU
This is larger related to the choice of CPU. You probably want at least a 4th gen Intel which is dual-core with Hyperthreading and also has a reasonably high CPU frequency. You can Google the Intel site by typing the model name of the CPU and "intel" such as:
http/ark.intel.com/products/76616/Intel-Core-i7-4600U-Processor-4M-Cache-up-to-3_30-GHz

This CPU has TWO cores but can get up to 30% more processing (if program supports) with hyperthreading. It Turbos up to 3.3GHz.

*You can compare CPU's this way for laptops. For example, if you see almost the same model but it only goes to 2.4GHz then that's going to be a lot slower for video editing.

b) GPU:
Not much to say here. You'll probably want an NVidia 700/900 series but this is not my area of expertise. Again, for the most part you need to compare CPU's. There's an advantage to using a GPU (depending on the program, or what the program is doing at the moment) but even in programs like Adobe Premiere there can be a quickly diminishing advantage between GPU performance (such as a Titan desktop vs a GTX750Ti. Huge price difference may be a really small performance.

Quadro workstation GPU's are expensive and not really a part of this discussion.

Summary:
So 4K is more about the INTERFACE being better, and processing ability is more about the CPU (and secondarily the GPU).

Update:
It would be interesting to see what resolution is supported at 60Hz via the HDMI (or DP if present) to a desktop monitor. Most laptops with HDMI support up to 1920x1200 AFAIK. Some newer models have "HDMI v2" which supports 4K at 60Hz if the GPU also supports it (whatever the laptop specs say for output if you can find it).

 

[photonboy]

This started to give me headache.. can someone just explain in basic way.?

Read my comments starting with the one just above. Then phrase any further questions very specifically.

 

[Seemly]

I am not worried much about gaming (I will give 1080p a try even if it won't work out well) but I am worried about video editing, I am an animator that uses c4d and that program is pretty demanding. I would say the same for premiere

There are TWO things being discussed here then:

1. Interface:
That is what 4K vs 1080p means. You have more pixels so can afford to decrease the font size relative to the same at 1080p so basically a bit more on screen or simply sharper.

2. Processing:
a) CPU
This is larger related to the choice of CPU. You probably want at least a 4th gen Intel which is dual-core with Hyperthreading and also has a reasonably high CPU frequency. You can Google the Intel site by typing the model name of the CPU and "intel" such as:
http/ark.intel.com/products/76616/Intel-Core-i7-4600U-Processor-4M-Cache-up-to-3_30-GHz

This CPU has TWO cores but can get up to 30% more processing (if program supports) with hyperthreading. It Turbos up to 3.3GHz.

*You can compare CPU's this way for laptops. For example, if you see almost the same model but it only goes to 2.4GHz then that's going to be a lot slower for video editing.

b) GPU:
Not much to say here. You'll probably want an NVidia 700/900 series but this is not my area of expertise. Again, for the most part you need to compare CPU's. There's an advantage to using a GPU (depending on the program, or what the program is doing at the moment) but even in programs like Adobe Premiere there can be a quickly diminishing advantage between GPU performance (such as a Titan desktop vs a GTX750Ti. Huge price difference may be a really small performance.

Quadro workstation GPU's are expensive and not really a part of this discussion.

Summary:
So 4K is more about the INTERFACE being better, and processing ability is more about the CPU (and secondarily the GPU).

Update:
It would be interesting to see what resolution is supported at 60Hz via the HDMI (or DP if present) to a desktop monitor. Most laptops with HDMI support up to 1920x1200 AFAIK. Some newer models have "HDMI v2" which supports 4K at 60Hz if the GPU also supports it (whatever the laptop specs say for output if you can find it).

My CPU is I7 4710HQ Quad Core 2.5 GHZ (Turbo boost up to 3.5 GHZ), it seems that my GTX 860M matches the GTX 750TI and GTX 960M atleast what GPU Boss says

 

[Seemly]

I am not worried much about gaming (I will give 1080p a try even if it won't work out well) but I am worried about video editing, I am an animator that uses c4d and that program is pretty demanding. I would say the same for premiere

There are TWO things being discussed here then:

1. Interface:
That is what 4K vs 1080p means. You have more pixels so can afford to decrease the font size relative to the same at 1080p so basically a bit more on screen or simply sharper.

2. Processing:
a) CPU
This is larger related to the choice of CPU. You probably want at least a 4th gen Intel which is dual-core with Hyperthreading and also has a reasonably high CPU frequency. You can Google the Intel site by typing the model name of the CPU and "intel" such as:
http/ark.intel.com/products/76616/Intel-Core-i7-4600U-Processor-4M-Cache-up-to-3_30-GHz

This CPU has TWO cores but can get up to 30% more processing (if program supports) with hyperthreading. It Turbos up to 3.3GHz.

*You can compare CPU's this way for laptops. For example, if you see almost the same model but it only goes to 2.4GHz then that's going to be a lot slower for video editing.

b) GPU:
Not much to say here. You'll probably want an NVidia 700/900 series but this is not my area of expertise. Again, for the most part you need to compare CPU's. There's an advantage to using a GPU (depending on the program, or what the program is doing at the moment) but even in programs like Adobe Premiere there can be a quickly diminishing advantage between GPU performance (such as a Titan desktop vs a GTX750Ti. Huge price difference may be a really small performance.

Quadro workstation GPU's are expensive and not really a part of this discussion.

Summary:
So 4K is more about the INTERFACE being better, and processing ability is more about the CPU (and secondarily the GPU).

Update:
It would be interesting to see what resolution is supported at 60Hz via the HDMI (or DP if present) to a desktop monitor. Most laptops with HDMI support up to 1920x1200 AFAIK. Some newer models have "HDMI v2" which supports 4K at 60Hz if the GPU also supports it (whatever the laptop specs say for output if you can find it).

My CPU is I7 4710HQ Quad Core 2.5 GHZ (Turbo boost up to 3.5 GHZ), it seems that my GTX 860M matches the GTX 750TI and GTX 960M atleast what GPU Boss says

 

[photonboy]

4k is a mixed blessing on laptops. The good side of it is that you can run 4k YT (given enough internet bandwidth) and Photoshop editing at 4k really well. Downside is that it takes a lot of horsepower to run and windows 8 (windows 10 fixes this I think) doesn't scale properly with 4k, so most wording is extremely difficult to read.

I suggest getting windows 10 on that laptop when it comes out.

Most of the scaling issues are related to programs not being rewritten to scale well. Microsoft can not fix these programs. Adobe is known to have issues with this.

I agree getting Windows 10, however it's pretty easy to upgrade from Windows 7/8 in case there's some reason the W10 version isn't available.

*Having said that, the VIDEO DRIVER may be affected by the Windows 10 upgrade. Sorry to complicate the issue but you should be aware especially if you use NVidia Optimus (which allows switching). I won't discuss this any further but just make a note somewhere about that and revisit later.

 

[Seemly]

wait so I cannot upgrade to windows 10? I don't know what OS will the laptop have. but it isn't windows 10, it will be 8.1

 

[Solandri]

Gaming performance won't be any different if you set the game to 1080p resolution. Just be aware that not all games and screens scale correctly, and your 1080p game may end up as a small box in the center of your screen, instead of stretched to fill your screen. If this happens, you can overcome it by setting Windows to 1920x1080 resolution and playing in windowed mode. But playing in windowed mode in some games sucks.

Battery life on the 4k displays is worse, but not because the screen itself needs more power (as photonboy said, the backlighting requirement is the same as a 1080p or even 768p screen). It's worse because the hardware driving the screen has to "think" in 3840x2160 resolution. Even if you're running Windows in 1080p mode, the screen needs to take those 2 million pixels, and upscale them to 8 million pixels before displaying them. That takes a little extra power.

Lenovo has a couple 4k screens. The cheaper one is actually a mediocre TN panel. Hopefully you got the IPS one if you're going to do video editing, as the TN panel will color shift depending on viewing angle thus making it impossible to accurately gauge colors and brightness. From what I hear, the colors on their IPS panel are not great either, but it won't color shift. Ideally for 4k video or photo work you want one of the Sharp IGZO panels. The Dell XPS 15 uses that, along with a few other laptops. Don't think Lenovo uses it. It has great viewing angles and colors.

If you got the model with the SSHD, be aware that Lenovo has (had?) been using WD SSHDs. Unfortunately WD baked the power save timeout into the firmware, and the drive will spin down after about 4-5 minutes of inactivity. The next time Windows tries to access the drive, the computer will freeze for a few seconds while it waits for the drive to spin up again. Normally if this happens too often, you just change the timeout in Windows to 10, 15, 30 minutes or never. But because WD baked it into the drive's firmware, there's no way to change it. The only "fix" is to replace the drive (preferably with a SSD).

 

[Solandri]

My CPU is I7 4710HQ Quad Core 2.5 GHZ (Turbo boost up to 3.5 GHZ), it seems that my GTX 860M matches the GTX 750TI and GTX 960M atleast what GPU Boss says

860m game benchmarks here:

http/www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-860M.107794.0.html

 

[photonboy]

Mice:
I'll keep this brief, but when you buy a mouse for 4K you'll want to do some research. You can bookmark this for a start if you want:
http/www.overclock.net/t/951894/the-truthful-mouse-guide

DPI, Polling rate, and wired vs wireless are things to investigate at such a high resolution. Perhaps a mouse with a few buttons to increase/decrease DPI.

*I believe you'd want a mouse that supports at least 2000 DPI but I'm not an expert on this.

 

[photonboy]

Game scaling:
As per Solandri's post this is actually not much of an issue.

If it's not already set, then just make sure scaling is done by "Aspect Ratio" and you'll have no issues. This means it will fit the game to the screen but will not DISTORT it. If it has the same RATIO (i.e. 1920x1080 is 16x9 same as 3840x2160) it will automatically fit perfectly.

If it was 1600x1200 (4x3 ratio) then you would simply have black bars on the left and right.

*Long story short, all you would have to do in a game is go into the settings and choose the resolution (such as 1920x1080) and it will just work.

Other:
IPS vs TN.
If it's a choice between a better panel at 1080p then I recommend that. While not all TN or IPS panels are identical, for anything like video editing you definitely want an IPS panel if that is an option. Better viewing angles and color.

Good luck, I must stop talking...

*If you have any specific questions feel free to Personal Message me, however note that unless you remind me or LINK the post I might not know who you are.

 

[Seemly]

Okay, I will keep this thread open untill the laptop arrives and I will tell you the results.

 

[velo3100]

For video editing it should be able to handle basic things at 4k. But if you plan on seriously using this for professional use, I would get another laptop that is designed for it.

For gaming at 1080p should be fine but some people have reported the quality is not that good. If anyone has had this laptop please share your experiences with it.

 

[Seemly]

I shall share it once I get it. I animate minecraft and there is rigs with hypernurbs (Subdivisions) which needs good GPU.

 

[photonboy]

wait so I cannot upgrade to windows 10? I don't know what OS will the laptop have. but it isn't windows 10, it will be 8.1

You will qualify for the upgrade, I just said be warned there may be an issue with the video drivers or NVidia Optimus.

I'm sure that will get fixed just be aware. I can't comment further until Windows 10 releases and we hear about people upgrading laptops with NVidia Optimus.

 

[velo3100]

That laptop may not be the best for 3d animation as it is more geared towards gaming. Depending on your budget you maybe better of with a workstation as they are more designed for this. I would look into the lenovo w series as they should be able to handle what you say. The only thing with those laptops is that they generally don't have 4k screens. But I don't think you will need it for animation. Feel free to correct me though.

I shall share it once I get it. I animate minecraft and there is rigs with hypernurbs (Subdivisions) which needs good GPU.

 

[Seemly]

That laptop may not be the best for 3d animation as it is more geared towards gaming. Depending on your budget you maybe better of with a workstation as they are more designed for this. I would look into the lenovo w series as they should be able to handle what you say. The only thing with those laptops is that they generally don't have 4k screens. But I don't think you will need it for animation. Feel free to correct me though.

I shall share it once I get it. I animate minecraft and there is rigs with hypernurbs (Subdivisions) which needs good GPU.

I am not sure buddy, the difference between the too isn't really that much except in GPU which I have never heard of. also I will be using 2 laptops, I might combine 2 cpus, intel core i3 and intel core i7 together to boost up my render process

 

[velo3100]

The gpu will make a huge difference in rendering times. If you have a quadrino graphics card, it should assuming the software is optimised for it be able to render animation much quicker than any igpu in 2 laptop combined. I am not sure how you will combine 2 cpus together in a laptop but workstations generally can render things much quicker than geforce or their intel counterpart. But these tend to be more expensive as a result.

That laptop may not be the best for 3d animation as it is more geared towards gaming. Depending on your budget you maybe better of with a workstation as they are more designed for this. I would look into the lenovo w series as they should be able to handle what you say. The only thing with those laptops is that they generally don't have 4k screens. But I don't think you will need it for animation. Feel free to correct me though.

I shall share it once I get it. I animate minecraft and there is rigs with hypernurbs (Subdivisions) which needs good GPU.

I am not sure buddy, the difference between the too isn't really that much except in GPU which I have never heard of. also I will be using 2 laptops, I might combine 2 cpus, intel core i3 and intel core i7 together to boost up my render process

 

[Seemly]

Okay I got the laptop, but I must say I am not that satisfied, I was able to configure everything about resolution and stuff, but the problem here is 48 HZ refresh rate, it makes the laptop looks so unsmooth. I have been trying to figure out how to fix for hours, updated my drivers and everything. but nothing changed other than the gaming performance.

 

[hdmark]

can you get into the NVidia control panel and change the refresh rate there?

 

[jaguarskx]

There is nothing you can do about the 48Hz refresh rate. Below is a recent thread about it in Lenovo's forums; started on 7/7/2015.

https/forums.lenovo.com/t5/Lenovo-P-Y-and-Z-series/Y50-uhd-48hz-frame-lock-can-be-fixed-lenovo-must-update-bios-and/td-p/2116961

A Lenovo Administrator posted a reply with a link to a previous rely in another thread back in Oct 2014. Basically, the Y50 has been designed to use the UHD screen at 48Hz, but they have been looking into increasing it to 60Hz without success.