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rohitbaran
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- Mar 21, 2010
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disruption of service is the most useful thing they can do, when you start publishing names and accusing folks you better have some real strong evidence to back it up, stuff like this can really ruin a person and a false positive can catapult anon into public enemy number 1 even if they were well intentioned to start off with
like razor said, a covert operation would be more useful, hack the damn server find out the prime accounts that are uploading, trace the IP, hack the damn machine, confirm target and then send hell in that direction while turning evidence over to the authorities
like razor said, a covert operation would be more useful, hack the damn server find out the prime accounts that are uploading, trace the IP, hack the damn machine, confirm target and then send hell in that direction while turning evidence over to the authorities
NuclearShadow
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- Sep 20, 2007
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Anyone who doesn't support Anonymous on this one is certainly going to have a few eyebrows raised at them as there is only one real reason not to support this.
What if minors are considered anyone under 21?
What if in some places minors are anyone under 16?
You can marry off when you are 16 in some countries but you can't see them naked?
Just saying there are more things to consider before dropping the axe. If it was a site with 10 year olds then I'm all good for knocking them out.
A group like Anon answers to no one and you get no say on what is right or wrong, so it's the same a living under a dictatorship right? Just be careful on what you praise because it might come and bite you in the ass.
What if in some places minors are anyone under 16?
You can marry off when you are 16 in some countries but you can't see them naked?
Just saying there are more things to consider before dropping the axe. If it was a site with 10 year olds then I'm all good for knocking them out.
A group like Anon answers to no one and you get no say on what is right or wrong, so it's the same a living under a dictatorship right? Just be careful on what you praise because it might come and bite you in the ass.
@dimcorner
it's an underground user group under the darknet site, i'll hardly think they would care about the distinction between someone of 14 and someone of 16, or for that matter 10, i'll hardly think someone is going go to the user group and say hey can i just have material of kids older than 16 please.
Anon isn't exactly running the country and for sure they dont make or uphold the law, their actions in general are classified as nuisance, it's a hassle to live with but rarely will impact your daily life, with the one caveat, that is if they do out your name incorrectly and some weirdo takes it as the god honest truth decides to hunt you down and kill you.
A true totalitarian government (which if a recall is one of the manifest that Anon is fighting against, supposedly) can walk over to your house, incarcerate you for an undetermined time period, confiscate your computer equipment and personal possessions and then release you without a word to why other than it's in the interest of the common good
it's an underground user group under the darknet site, i'll hardly think they would care about the distinction between someone of 14 and someone of 16, or for that matter 10, i'll hardly think someone is going go to the user group and say hey can i just have material of kids older than 16 please.
Anon isn't exactly running the country and for sure they dont make or uphold the law, their actions in general are classified as nuisance, it's a hassle to live with but rarely will impact your daily life, with the one caveat, that is if they do out your name incorrectly and some weirdo takes it as the god honest truth decides to hunt you down and kill you.
A true totalitarian government (which if a recall is one of the manifest that Anon is fighting against, supposedly) can walk over to your house, incarcerate you for an undetermined time period, confiscate your computer equipment and personal possessions and then release you without a word to why other than it's in the interest of the common good
back_by_demand
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- Jul 16, 2009
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Anonymous should have done this first, if there is onething on the internet that needs sorting out it is kiddy porn.
I personally would like very much if they could publicly post the names of the hosts, the bad publicity alone should force them to remove the content.
Share it all with local police and government agencies, lets see a real bonfire, a clear message that if you try to view kiddie porn anywhere worldwide you will be found out and arrested & shut down.
I personally would like very much if they could publicly post the names of the hosts, the bad publicity alone should force them to remove the content.
Share it all with local police and government agencies, lets see a real bonfire, a clear message that if you try to view kiddie porn anywhere worldwide you will be found out and arrested & shut down.
TeraMedia
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- Jan 26, 2006
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Question: If Anon modified the web server to cause it to forward site transaction details (e.g. source and target IP and MAC (if available), URL, files DL'ed) to a third party, e.g. the FBI, would that evidence be permissible in US court? What about in courts in other countries? If Anon could secretively help legitimate authorities bring down CP more quickly, and with real legal ramifications for the perps, that would truly be something.
IIRC, information that is acquired as a result of a criminal act by a third party is still permissible in court. So if Anon were to physically steal the servers and got busted possessing them in Times Square and showing the contents, then the evidence against the CP perps would still be admissible as law enforcement did not actually need to violate any amendments to acquire it.
IIRC, information that is acquired as a result of a criminal act by a third party is still permissible in court. So if Anon were to physically steal the servers and got busted possessing them in Times Square and showing the contents, then the evidence against the CP perps would still be admissible as law enforcement did not actually need to violate any amendments to acquire it.
This is catastrophic. For several reasons. First of all this will cause Anonymous to overstretch themselves. Before, Anonymous targeted large, centralized institutions, using the power of the decentralized structure of the internet against them. This structure in itself is undefeatable. Anyone who has ever tried, ever, to try and block out a network based on this structure, has failed. Be it the fight against piracy or anything else.
By changing it's focus from facing large, centralized institutions such as banks, to targeting another group which also use the decentralized structure of the internet to it's advantage (pedophiles), Anonymous is now suddenly faced with the same difficulties as their former targets had in attacking them - they are now making an attack which success depend upon them being able to overcome the structure of the internet itself. This, Anonymous, like any and all other groups and institutions, cannot do. In this, like everyone else, they are doomed to fail.
Because how exactly are they going to take down all the child porn on the planet? Don't they think the pedophiles have offline backups of their stuff, which they will just upload to a new server, and then a new one, and a new one. Behind one proxy, and then another, and another? And behind tougher and tougher encryption? Just like all other attempts to halt the spread of content, legal as well as illegal, this is an endeavor which Anonymous cannot overcome.
That is one side. The other side is how this is actually helpful to the pedophiles running these kind of sites. I could not help but notice the parents being all "Yeah! Go after the pedophiles Anonymous!" But... How exactly does these parents believe what Anonymous is doing is punishing the pedophiles? They hacked their server. That's it. As mentioned above, they'll just upload the content to another server. And another. And so on. How exactly is that punishing the pedophiles? And much more importantly, how does this help the children who are their victims? See, the problem is, with the server being down, there is no way the police can punish the pedophiles. Where's the evidence? Any and all evidence which Anonymous comes in with, saying, "they did it" will be rejected as fabrications. Because no-one but the police are entitled to gather evidence. This is part of this whole thing called "The Rule Of Law", which in this case has the function that we aren't supposed to be able to go around and fabricate evidence about ppl we don't like and then pull them to court, based on the evidence we fabricated ourselves. Therefore, only a neutral and professional party, the police, is allowed to gather evidence. Therefore, what Anonymous has done is, at best, to serve as a little annoyance to the pedophiles. They'll just share their stuff from another server with better encryption. At worst, what Anonymous has done is to make sure that a ton of pedophiles can walk free. As it can't be proved that the child pornography came from their computers when the evidence wasn't gathered by the police. And even worse - this evidence will even be unusable in cases to get the producers of the child pornography themselves convicted. Meaning they will walk free, the children who are the victims will not be removed by the authorities and put into care. And the abuse of them can continue. Unhindered.
To sum this up. I am, on a fundamental level, a huge supporter of the activist part of the internet. Yet, this has to be one of the, if not the sole dumbest moves which has ever been carried out by any activist group. Ever. For once I actually feel Anonymous owe an apology. Not to me. Not to "the internet". But to the children whose chance at getting out of their lives of abuse, as well as their chance of getting their chance of getting justice against their offenders, Anonymous might very well just have up.
By changing it's focus from facing large, centralized institutions such as banks, to targeting another group which also use the decentralized structure of the internet to it's advantage (pedophiles), Anonymous is now suddenly faced with the same difficulties as their former targets had in attacking them - they are now making an attack which success depend upon them being able to overcome the structure of the internet itself. This, Anonymous, like any and all other groups and institutions, cannot do. In this, like everyone else, they are doomed to fail.
Because how exactly are they going to take down all the child porn on the planet? Don't they think the pedophiles have offline backups of their stuff, which they will just upload to a new server, and then a new one, and a new one. Behind one proxy, and then another, and another? And behind tougher and tougher encryption? Just like all other attempts to halt the spread of content, legal as well as illegal, this is an endeavor which Anonymous cannot overcome.
That is one side. The other side is how this is actually helpful to the pedophiles running these kind of sites. I could not help but notice the parents being all "Yeah! Go after the pedophiles Anonymous!" But... How exactly does these parents believe what Anonymous is doing is punishing the pedophiles? They hacked their server. That's it. As mentioned above, they'll just upload the content to another server. And another. And so on. How exactly is that punishing the pedophiles? And much more importantly, how does this help the children who are their victims? See, the problem is, with the server being down, there is no way the police can punish the pedophiles. Where's the evidence? Any and all evidence which Anonymous comes in with, saying, "they did it" will be rejected as fabrications. Because no-one but the police are entitled to gather evidence. This is part of this whole thing called "The Rule Of Law", which in this case has the function that we aren't supposed to be able to go around and fabricate evidence about ppl we don't like and then pull them to court, based on the evidence we fabricated ourselves. Therefore, only a neutral and professional party, the police, is allowed to gather evidence. Therefore, what Anonymous has done is, at best, to serve as a little annoyance to the pedophiles. They'll just share their stuff from another server with better encryption. At worst, what Anonymous has done is to make sure that a ton of pedophiles can walk free. As it can't be proved that the child pornography came from their computers when the evidence wasn't gathered by the police. And even worse - this evidence will even be unusable in cases to get the producers of the child pornography themselves convicted. Meaning they will walk free, the children who are the victims will not be removed by the authorities and put into care. And the abuse of them can continue. Unhindered.
To sum this up. I am, on a fundamental level, a huge supporter of the activist part of the internet. Yet, this has to be one of the, if not the sole dumbest moves which has ever been carried out by any activist group. Ever. For once I actually feel Anonymous owe an apology. Not to me. Not to "the internet". But to the children whose chance at getting out of their lives of abuse, as well as their chance of getting their chance of getting justice against their offenders, Anonymous might very well just have up.
dextermat
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- Sep 21, 2007
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+1 anonymous
they should hack fake sale sites that scam credit cards and also pyramidal companies. They really are crapping up the economy.
Government / credit card companies should really block them from electronic payment
(I know i am dreaming) So nice job Anon
they should hack fake sale sites that scam credit cards and also pyramidal companies. They really are crapping up the economy.
Government / credit card companies should really block them from electronic payment
(I know i am dreaming) So nice job Anon
razor512
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- Jun 16, 2007
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[citation][nom]gokanis[/nom]Posting the names is a start. But if the police were conducting an investigation and they messed it up, that could be bad. The police take their time, cross all the t's and dot all the i's and try to get as much info on all the users as possible. This enables to take the hole thing down at one time, with all the users and their IP addresses.I hope they don't take down some poor old lady with an unsecured wireless router that her freak neighbor is leaching off of.[/citation]
the issue is that usually when a maker of child porn is discovered, you generally also get reports that they have been doing it for years.
A sad truth is that the police put less time and effort into cases that do not generate money.
Most of the people making the child porn will probably never get arrested especially if it requires a level of actual investigating that law enforcement is no longer willing to do.
Even when they have all of the information, they are generally slow or non responsive.
The government makes child porn out to be one of the worst things ever (which is why the people who make it, if they do get caught, they get put in prison for a very long time.
With such a serious crime being committed, why is it that the resources of the government cant even accomplish even a fraction of what anon has done in such a short time?
the issue is that usually when a maker of child porn is discovered, you generally also get reports that they have been doing it for years.
A sad truth is that the police put less time and effort into cases that do not generate money.
Most of the people making the child porn will probably never get arrested especially if it requires a level of actual investigating that law enforcement is no longer willing to do.
Even when they have all of the information, they are generally slow or non responsive.
The government makes child porn out to be one of the worst things ever (which is why the people who make it, if they do get caught, they get put in prison for a very long time.
With such a serious crime being committed, why is it that the resources of the government cant even accomplish even a fraction of what anon has done in such a short time?
BigOlSillyGoose
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- Oct 24, 2011
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[citation][nom]Rizlla[/nom]Nice to see them doing something for the greater good.[/citation]
the greater good
the greater good
[citation][nom]guanyu210379[/nom]Finally, hacking for good use!This will be a lot more effective than only listening to boring politicians talking about fighting child pornography.You have my support on this one.[/citation]
and they are fighting the real cp, not the "my kid got a cellphone, took a pic of themselves nude, sent it to friends, now my kid is arrested as a child pornographer, and the people (kids) who got sent the image, are labeled sex criminals for life"
[citation][nom]amk-aka-phantom[/nom]I honestly don't know what to think. Here're some points to think about:1) CP is bad (m'kay?) No, I'm serious this time. It's good to see Anonymous is going after that.2) From the other side, it seems like a cheap publicity stunt from their side to gain popularity.3) Also, I can't help but notice that, although despotism of a superior entity with right moral beliefs is the only efficient means of a just government, I cannot trust Anonymous' beliefs to be right. 4) Hell, I don't even see why should anyone agree to them doing it... CP is bad, but they're given way too much freedom to mess around on the net.[/citation]
i take it you dont go to 4chan often, those sites are getting hammered with the crap right now, im not sure how much of current anon is from /b/ but that crap has always annoyed them, they joke about it, but when crap hits the fan there they show how much they hate it.
and they are fighting the real cp, not the "my kid got a cellphone, took a pic of themselves nude, sent it to friends, now my kid is arrested as a child pornographer, and the people (kids) who got sent the image, are labeled sex criminals for life"
[citation][nom]amk-aka-phantom[/nom]I honestly don't know what to think. Here're some points to think about:1) CP is bad (m'kay?) No, I'm serious this time. It's good to see Anonymous is going after that.2) From the other side, it seems like a cheap publicity stunt from their side to gain popularity.3) Also, I can't help but notice that, although despotism of a superior entity with right moral beliefs is the only efficient means of a just government, I cannot trust Anonymous' beliefs to be right. 4) Hell, I don't even see why should anyone agree to them doing it... CP is bad, but they're given way too much freedom to mess around on the net.[/citation]
i take it you dont go to 4chan often, those sites are getting hammered with the crap right now, im not sure how much of current anon is from /b/ but that crap has always annoyed them, they joke about it, but when crap hits the fan there they show how much they hate it.
[citation][nom]blubbey[/nom]Nice to see them do something like this.Also paedophile. Afaik Paedo is something like child (can't remember the language. Like Paediatrician). Ped is something like soil iirc.[/citation]
How it is spelled depends on which side of the pond you are on and both are right.
How it is spelled depends on which side of the pond you are on and both are right.
back_by_demand
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- Jul 16, 2009
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I showed this to one of my companies Infosec guys and he rightly pointed out that Anonymous may very well have blown several undercover Police operations during this.
Although I applaude their efforts in naming companies and taking down content, perhaps named individuals should have instead been sent to Interpol or the FBI.
Worst case scenario here is a vigilant mob identifies a named person as one of their neighbours, kicks his door in and kills him, only to find he works for an FBI anti-pedophile unit.
Less worst case scenario is named pedophiles look at the list and do a bit of their own research and the new guy who they were about to share information with they identify as FBI and go underground again.
Either way, keep doing the vigilante work, but pass on your findings to the authorities in a way they can use it to get prosecutions, anonymously.
Although I applaude their efforts in naming companies and taking down content, perhaps named individuals should have instead been sent to Interpol or the FBI.
Worst case scenario here is a vigilant mob identifies a named person as one of their neighbours, kicks his door in and kills him, only to find he works for an FBI anti-pedophile unit.
Less worst case scenario is named pedophiles look at the list and do a bit of their own research and the new guy who they were about to share information with they identify as FBI and go underground again.
Either way, keep doing the vigilante work, but pass on your findings to the authorities in a way they can use it to get prosecutions, anonymously.
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