Best speaker under $5000

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I am currently considering the Legacy Signature III's and the Paradigm
Signature 8's. I auditioned the Signature 8's and they sounded excellent.
The only thing that bothered me is the high's seemed a tad bright on some
CD's. I love the build quality of the Signature III's and I've read a lot
of good reviews about them (Sensible Sound). My room is about 20' by 25'.
I like a dynamic speaker with a tight bass.

Which is the better speaker of the two in your opinion? I can get the
Legacy's for $4400 and the Paradigm's for about $4800. Any help would be
appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Randy
 
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Randy and Michelle wrote:

> Which is the better speaker of the two in your opinion? I can get the
> Legacy's for $4400 and the Paradigm's for about $4800. Any help would be
> appreciated.

Are you asking which speaker is better? The only real opinion that
counts is yours. You have to live with 'em.

If $5000 is your spending limit and you really want the most bang
for your buck, you might want to consider the Linkwitz Orion.
Point your web browser at:

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/orion_challenge.htm

This is more than just a loudspeaker. It is a whole package
including amplfication and active crossover, as well as drivers
and loudspeaker enclosure.

Now if you just want to buy the whole thing pre-assembled in a
plug 'n play fashion, then it'll cost you about $7,000, which is
outside your price range. But you can get into a pair of Orions
for a lot less than that if you're willing and able to do some
of the work yourself. I have about $4,000 in my setup and am
truly thrilled with it.

I've been an audiophile for over 30 years and have not heard anything,
at any price, which I'd say was superior to the Orions. Now this is
my own personal opinion, and being free, is worth exactly that. You'll
find a lot of people who love them and some who don't, but that's how
it is with every audio product out there.

The only loudspeakers I've heard which match up well, to my ear, with
the Orions are the big Avalon loudspeakers and the MBL Reference, both
of which are waaaaaaaaay beyond your budget.

You don't say where you're located, but if you drop a line to Siegfried
Linkwitz at his site above, he can probably put you in contact with an
owner of Orions in your local area so you can hear them for yourself.

Good luck!

Russ
 
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Some speakers seem to favor certain CDs, I've always liked Klipsch's
RF-7 Reference series speaker, but the horn tweeter can take it's toll
if a CD is mixed "bright". I can't directly comment on the two speakers
you're comparing because I haven't heard the Legacy, although I
seriously reccomend you take a look at Dynaudio and perhaps Tannoy
speakers before making a decision. I prefer Dyn's speakers to almost
any others, regardless of price. I believe that the "Contour S 3.4"s
are about $5k a pair so they'd fall right in line with your price
restriction.
 
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Russ Button wrote:

> Randy and Michelle wrote:
>
>> Which is the better speaker of the two in your opinion? I can get the
>> Legacy's for $4400 and the Paradigm's for about $4800. Any help
>> would be appreciated.

I'd recommend the Magnepan 3.6s. Nothing is going to sound better
for the money that I know of, at least new.
 
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"Joseph Oberlander" <josephoberlander@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:d17vs602pjb@news2.newsguy.com...
> Russ Button wrote:
>
>> Randy and Michelle wrote:
>>
>>> Which is the better speaker of the two in your opinion? I can get the
>>> Legacy's for $4400 and the Paradigm's for about $4800. Any help would
>>> be appreciated.
>
> I'd recommend the Magnepan 3.6s. Nothing is going to sound better
> for the money that I know of, at least new.

Yes !, and at $3750, being such a Magnepan addict I was afraid to chime in
adding my .02 suggesting it to someone who wants a box speaker. Two weeks
ago I had a chance to listen to a pair of B & W (800 ?) floor standing
boxes, $24K and they didn't do anything for me (certainly not a thing
compared to any nice and tall Maggie).
http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/303/
 
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"OneActor1@aol.com" wrote:

> Some speakers seem to favor certain CDs

Uhhhhh ? How does the speaker *know* what CD is being played ?

Have you considered that the production of the CD might be a factor ?

> , I've always liked Klipsch's
> RF-7 Reference series speaker, but the horn tweeter can take it's toll
> if a CD is mixed "bright". I can't directly comment on the two speakers
> you're comparing because I haven't heard the Legacy, although I
> seriously reccomend you take a look at Dynaudio and perhaps Tannoy
> speakers before making a decision. I prefer Dyn's speakers to almost
> any others, regardless of price. I believe that the "Contour S 3.4"s
> are about $5k a pair so they'd fall right in line with your price
> restriction.

Anyone who thinks modern Tannoys are really good needs his head examining <
sorry Tannoy >. 30+ yrs ago maybe !

The whole point of high performance 'neutral' speakers is that they reveal
the original recording - warts and all ! If some speaker hides those warts
- it's deficient. So a *good* speaker will reveal the warts in a poor
recording. That doesn't make it a bad speaker, simply accurate.

Having said that - maybe you would prefer a speaker that 'flatters' most
recordings ( by eliminating detail ) ?


Graham
 
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First of all, you must absolutely audition the equipment in your home
(a familiar environment) with your equipment. The amp-speaker
interaction is critical, and you should change only one parameter (the
speakers) at a time when trying out new toys.

Secondly, all responders are ignoring the physical issues. We try to be
pure about sound, but we all need to fit equipment into our homes.
Personally, I cannot convince anyone to even think about the Magnepan
panels. I am favoring the thin and narrow of the Paradigm's over the
cosmetics of other speakers.

Third, don't forget the quality of the manufacturer and the dealer. I
have never even heard of the Linkwitz Lab speakers, and I have been a
subscriber to Stereophile and Absolute Sound for decades. If you want a
lifetime purchase, you may not want a risk. These days, be cautious and
find a great dealer who will be helpful.

Good luck!!
 
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"Pooh Bear" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d1dkk5010f1@news2.newsguy.com...
>
> The whole point of high performance 'neutral' speakers is that they reveal
> the original recording - warts and all ! If some speaker hides those warts
> - it's deficient. So a *good* speaker will reveal the warts in a poor
> recording. That doesn't make it a bad speaker, simply accurate.
>
Agreed, but that's only the starting point. How that speaker produces an
agreeable soundstage, its dispersion characteristics, height, width,
produces a maximal illusion of depth, how it interacts with room boundaries,
how it sounds at different volume levels, etc. etc. all come into play (pun
intended) after revealing the "original" recording, and can make a good
recording sound bad and perhaps vice versa. On top of all that one naturally
has to take into consideration said speakers appetite for amplification,
nothing fancy mind you; the amp's capacity to deliver watts and amps *on
demand*.
 

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Mr. Finsky wrote:

> Third, don't forget the quality of the manufacturer and the dealer. I
> have never even heard of the Linkwitz Lab speakers, and I have been a
> subscriber to Stereophile and Absolute Sound for decades.

Maybe you should expand your reading horizons? It's not like Mr.
Linkwitz has been incognito over the years. To the moonbats at The
Absolute Sound, perhaps Mr. Linkwitz is someone they cannot deal with on
a technical level, but I would think that the pseudo-technical
Stereophile magazine would be familiar with the history of Mr.
Linkwitz's contributions and would have something to say about his products.


In any case, you may want to check out:

www.linkwitzlab.com
 
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<<Uhhhhh ? How does the speaker *know* what CD is being played ?

Have you considered that the production of the CD might be a factor ?
>>

This is obviously what I meant. I'm well aware of the fact that a
speaker cannot "know" what disc is being played through them. If that's
what you thought I was implying, maybe it's you who needs his head
examined.

<<Anyone who thinks modern Tannoys are really good needs his head
examining <
sorry Tannoy >. 30+ yrs ago maybe ! >>

I don't seem to recall using the phrase "really good" in conjunction
with the Tannoy's. Nonetheless, it's still a fine speaker, and I think
you need to keep in mind that our ears all prefer a different sound.
(Here's a note just in case: I know that your ears can't actually have
a preference =)

<<The whole point of high performance 'neutral' speakers is that they
reveal
the original recording - warts and all ! If some speaker hides those
warts
- it's deficient. So a *good* speaker will reveal the warts in a poor
recording. That doesn't make it a bad speaker, simply accurate. >>

Perhaps you chose not to read my reccomendation for Dynaudio. Or maybe
you have never heard a Dynaudio speaker or are even aware of what they
are. If you had any idea, you'd know that Dynaudio makes some of the
finest (if not the absolute finest) studio monitor speakers in the
world. They carry over a great deal of that technology and market
ideaologuy into their home speakers. I have NEVER heard a home speaker
that was more neutral or accurate than a Dynaudio. In my mind and to
many others as well, they are simply the absolute end-all when it comes
to accurate reproduction of ANY source material. I have enjoyed many
speakers which "color" the sound, most of them do, including the
Tannoys and (to a much greater degree) Klipsch's RF-7 Refernce series
speaker which I quite enjoy despite it's shortcomings in the "accuracy"
department. Nonetheless, I consider accuracy to be of the utmost
importance, and I have followed that rethoric to the best of my
ability. Maybe you're just looking to pick a fight?
 
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On 19 Mar 2005 00:37:37 GMT, "Mr. Finsky" <finezer54@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>Secondly, all responders are ignoring the physical issues. We try to be
>pure about sound, but we all need to fit equipment into our homes.
>Personally, I cannot convince anyone to even think about the Magnepan
>panels.

Try harder............

>Third, don't forget the quality of the manufacturer and the dealer. I
>have never even heard of the Linkwitz Lab speakers, and I have been a
>subscriber to Stereophile and Absolute Sound for decades.

In that case, you have not been paying attention. While TAS is simply
a good laugh, the audio equivalent of Mad Magazine, Sterophile has
certainly covered Linkwitz and his speakers. I commend you to the
April 1996 edition (definitely less than a decade ago), wherein their
is a review of the Audio Artistry Dvorak speaker, and a separate
interview with Siegfried Linkwitz. Said interview stretches from page
114 to 127, so one must presume that you simply skim the magazine,
rather than actually read it.

Linkwitz Lab is Siegfried's DIY site, and the Orion is a very
well-known speaker to all true enthusiasts, being one of the *very*
few kits which really does compete with 'high end' commercial
speakers.

> If you want a
>lifetime purchase, you may not want a risk. These days, be cautious and
>find a great dealer who will be helpful.

Even better, find a great speaker so that you won't be churning your
gear every year!
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering
 
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Mr. Finsky wrote:

> First of all, you must absolutely audition the equipment in your home
> (a familiar environment) with your equipment. The amp-speaker
> interaction is critical, and you should change only one parameter (the
> speakers) at a time when trying out new toys.

Well, the conditions keep changing.
Q:"Best speaker under $5000".
A: Planar or electrostatic.

The response to the original question isn't going to change.
Now, if you want something that's small, or with other factors
to be addressed, then the suggestion will likely change.

> Secondly, all responders are ignoring the physical issues. We try to be
> pure about sound, but we all need to fit equipment into our homes.
> Personally, I cannot convince anyone to even think about the Magnepan
> panels. I am favoring the thin and narrow of the Paradigm's over the
> cosmetics of other speakers.

The "trick" to the Maggies is placement. They are 1-2 inches wide,
so use that. Even placed up against the wall, they still sound
very good - better than most people can imagine, and better than
most every cone speaker in the price range. My "trick" is to
mount them on 1 inch dowels about 4-8 inches off the wall, like
an acoustic panel or wall treatment. Make them a bit offset, with
one side angled in a bit to help with the backwave cancelling
factor.

Or, install them on a large piano hinge(literally a piano
hinge, due to weight). Fold them flat when not in use,
and move out from 45-90 degrees as you want when you
are listening.

Zero footprint when not in use, much like installing a
projection system for your TV with a motorized screen.

> Third, don't forget the quality of the manufacturer and the dealer. I
> have never even heard of the Linkwitz Lab speakers, and I have been a
> subscriber to Stereophile and Absolute Sound for decades. If you want a
> lifetime purchase, you may not want a risk. These days, be cautious and
> find a great dealer who will be helpful.

Magnepan and most electrostatic manufacturers are very
committed to quality construction. Given no money limit,
I'd suggest SoundLab myself, but they are insanely expensive
and require massive amplifiers to run properly.
 
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> <<Anyone who thinks modern Tannoys are really good needs his head
> examining <
> sorry Tannoy >. 30+ yrs ago maybe ! >>

Otoh, my father haggled the salesdroid to $1350 on a pair
of Saturn 8s. I don't think there is anything better
for the price. Maybe simmilar, but not really better
in the under $1500 range.

So, they do have their place in the midrange/beginner
high-end system.
 

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Joseph Oberlander wrote:

> Magnepan and most electrostatic manufacturers are very
> committed to quality construction. Given no money limit,
> I'd suggest SoundLab myself, but they are insanely expensive
> and require massive amplifiers to run properly.

The Sound Labs offer a certain appeal. But, today, there are better
choices, IMO. Massive ESL panels are hard to place in a room. The bass on
the Sound Labs is marginal, considering current SOA. Again, if I were
looking at something approaching the price of Dr. West's speaker, I'd
seriously consider the B&O 5. This speaker, has the presence and attack of
horns, with all the smoothness and coherence of an electrostatic. The bass
control is the best I've heard, and room tailored. Plus, for the price you
get over 2000 watts of driver specific amplification.

michael
 
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In article <d1fs8h0163j@news1.newsguy.com>,
Mr. Finsky <finezer54@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Third, don't forget the quality of the manufacturer and the dealer.I
>have never even heard of the Linkwitz Lab speakers,

Siegfried Linkwitz also designed the Audio Artistry dynamic dipoles.
His bi-amplified Beethoven (http://stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/328/)
was Stereophile's 1998 Loudspeaker of the Year. The Beethoven was also
available in a fully-active design for somewhat more money ($37K MSRP).

Siegfried feels that his Orions eclipse his Beethoven Elites in
all departments but maximum output level.

>and I have been a
>subscriber to Stereophile and Absolute Sound for decades.

The Linkwitz Orion sales/distribution channel is very different. You
buy a license from Mr. Linkwitz to build his design for personal use.

With enough desire, time, skill, and tools you can do the construction
yourself.

Desire: You need to enjoy wood working
Time: About 60 hours
Tools: I wouldn't want to have built them without an electric drill, table
saw, jig saw, router, and decent soldering iron. You could get by
with just the drill and jig saw although that would be tedious and
dramatically increase construction time. A scope and signal
generator made isolating a couple of cross-over wiring mistakes easier.
Skill: Your table saw cuts need to be precise but not accurate. Being
able to use a router with a side panel pattern and circle jig will
make those cuts faster and more accurate.

Otherwise Mr. Linkwitz will connect you with people who will do some
or all of the construction for a great price.

>If you want a lifetime purchase, you may not want a risk.

Any electronics technician can follow the schematic and repair the cross-over.

The drivers are all off-the-shelf units from Seas and Peerless.

There's less risk there than you have with a company selling potted
cross-overs and using proprietary drivers that get discontinued.
--
<a href="http://www.poohsticks.org/drew/">Home Page</a>
In 1913 the inflation adjusted (in 2003 dollars) exemption for single people
was $54,567, married couples' exemption $72,756, the next $363,783 was taxed
at 1%, and earnings over $9,094,578 were taxed at the top rate of 7%.
 
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michael wrote:

>Joseph Oberlander wrote:
>
>
>
>>Magnepan and most electrostatic manufacturers are very
>>committed to quality construction. Given no money limit,
>>I'd suggest SoundLab myself, but they are insanely expensive
>>and require massive amplifiers to run properly.
>>
>>
>
>The Sound Labs offer a certain appeal. But, today, there are better
>choices, IMO. Massive ESL panels are hard to place in a room. The bass on
>the Sound Labs is marginal, considering current SOA. Again, if I were
>looking at something approaching the price of Dr. West's speaker, I'd
>seriously consider the B&O 5. This speaker, has the presence and attack of
>horns, with all the smoothness and coherence of an electrostatic. The bass
>control is the best I've heard, and room tailored. Plus, for the price you
>get over 2000 watts of driver specific amplification.
>
>michael
>
>
I am thinking the new Dali Helicon 300 or FM Labs. I have not heard the
Legacy or the Paradigm.
The Paradigm 60 v.3 just got a great review by a longtime v2 listener.
They are usually the best bang for the buck. Audition the 100s if you
want a larger speaker. Phil
 
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Randy and Michelle Wrote:
> I am currently considering the Legacy Signature III's and the Paradigm
> Signature 8's. I auditioned the Signature 8's and they sounded
> excellent.
> The only thing that bothered me is the high's seemed a tad bright on
> some
> CD's. I love the build quality of the Signature III's and I've read a
> lot
> of good reviews about them (Sensible Sound). My room is about 20' by
> 25'.
> I like a dynamic speaker with a tight bass.
>
> Which is the better speaker of the two in your opinion? I can get the
> Legacy's for $4400 and the Paradigm's for about $4800. Any help would
> be
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Randy

Wow. I wish I had this problem. I agree w/others, the only opinion that
really matters is yours. The key is to trust your ears. If the highs
sound sharp, you will not listen to them over the long haul, and that's
bad. I would broaden your search if possible, as there are speakers out
there that you might enjoy much more than either of these. My personal
rec -- Spendor Classics.


--
Bojack
 

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Bojack wrote:

> Randy and Michelle Wrote:
> > I am currently considering the Legacy Signature III's and the Paradigm
> > Signature 8's. I auditioned the Signature 8's and they sounded
> > excellent.
> > The only thing that bothered me is the high's seemed a tad bright on
> > some
> > CD's. I love the build quality of the Signature III's and I've read a
> > lot
> > of good reviews about them (Sensible Sound). My room is about 20' by
> > 25'.
> > I like a dynamic speaker with a tight bass.
> >
> > Which is the better speaker of the two in your opinion? I can get the
> > Legacy's for $4400 and the Paradigm's for about $4800. Any help would
> > be
> > appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Randy
>
> Wow. I wish I had this problem. I agree w/others, the only opinion that
> really matters is yours. The key is to trust your ears. If the highs
> sound sharp, you will not listen to them over the long haul, and that's
> bad. I would broaden your search if possible, as there are speakers out
> there that you might enjoy much more than either of these. My personal
> rec -- Spendor Classics.

Has anybody tried the $2K OML-2 from Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs? Just
wondering.

http://www.mofi.com/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=9&idproduct=19#details
 

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