Camcorder 720p 60fps with timcode ? any options?

west88

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Hi,
I'm looking for a camcorder that can record video with at least 720p and 60fps. It also need to have timecode, either generate it and output it to other device or just be able to input it from other device.

Footage recorded will be used as reference and for tracking motion, so it will not appear in actual 'final product'. Footage will be recorded as maximum 25 minutes per shoot. It would be great if I could have live preview on external monitor.

Budget is flexible to some extent. I was aiming to spend around 1200$ / £750 / 950€. However it can be easily doubled if that is what it takes to get what I need and there is no other option. Hopefully doubled amount will be enough.

I found below cameras. Video quality is great for my needs, but as far I can tell they do not have timecode so they are not an option form.

Sony FDR-AX100 4K Ultra HD Camcorder
example video

Panasonic HC-V750
example video

Is there any camera on the market that meats my requirements?
If I missed any important information let me know and I will update it.
 

kenrivers

Splendid
Moderator
The PAL version more than likely will not record 60fps but instead will record 50fps. There is a difference in frame rates between the NTSC and the PAL systems. The PAL version of the XA20 is the XA20E. Search the B&H site for the XA20E.
 

west88

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Feb 1, 2014
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Sony NEX FS100

This one is the cheapest I found that seams to meet all the requirements. Is there anything else available? What are your thought on that camera?

Is there an option to get timecode generator and apply it normal camcorder like the one I stated in first post (Panasonic HC-V750)?
 

kenrivers

Splendid
Moderator
Canon XA20 Professional HD Camcorder will record time code (according to the manual but will not output from the HD/SD-SDI terminal.

Not sure whether this one does or not Panasonic AG-HMC80 3MOS AVCCAM HD Shoulder-Mount Camcorder
All I could find out was this "User-assignable manual focus ring functions (Focus/Iris/Zoom) for added control; time code/UB recording; time/date stamp; and two wired remote control terminals (for zoom, focus, iris, REC start/stop controls)." - Source: http://www.panasonic.com/business/provideo/AG-HMC80PJ.asp

Sony's PXW-X70 Professional XDCAM Compact Camcorder may have it but this camcorder has not been released yet. You can find some specs at http://www.sony.co.uk/pro/product/broadcast-products-camcorders-xdcam/pxw-x70/specifications/#specifications
 

west88

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Thanks kenrivers Canon XA20 looks nice. As far as I understand only difference bettwen XA20 and XA25 is the fact that XA25 have uncompressed HD-SDI output and timecode embedded in a SDI output. I really have no real knowledge about professional world of cameras and recording, so is this something that will beneficial for me at all?

Details for XA20 from Canon website:
Recording format AVCHD (all modes variable bit rate, 4:2:0 colour sampling):
1920x1080: 50p (28Mbps, linear PCM audio available);
1920x1080: 50i/PF25 (24Mbps, 17Mbps);
1440x1080: 50i/PF25 (5Mbps)
MP4 (all modes variable bit rate, 4:2:0 colour sampling):
1920x1080: 50p (35Mbps);
1920x1080: 25P (24Mbps, 17Mbps);
1280x720: 25P (4Mbps);
640x360: 25P (3Mbps)


bhphotovideo:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/canon/news/new-canon-camcorders-xa25xa20-and-vixia-hf-g30

I can not see on official website information that this canon can do 59.94 fps (or I just do not understand it), but this other website shows it can.


One last thing about AX20: "Time code - YES (Superimposed on HDMI Output signal)". What does it actually mean? Will I be able to input timecode from other device or output it to other device?

I understand it outputs timecode from HDMI connector to other device, but I am not sure do I understand it correctly. If that is right can I use adapters before I connect to other device like from HDMI to BNC without using that timecode information or affecting it anyway?
 

kenrivers

Splendid
Moderator
MPEG4
35 Mb/s: 1920 x 1080 @ 59.94
24 Mb/s: 1920 x 1080 @ 29.97p,23.98p
17 Mb/s: 1920 x 1080 @ 29.97p,23.98p
4 Mb/s: 1280 x 720 @ 29.97p,23.98p
3 Mb/s: 640 x 360 @ 29.97p,23.98p

AVCHD
28 Mb/s: 1920 x 1080 @ 59.94p
24 Mb/s: 1920 x 1080 @ 59.94i/p, PF29.97, 23.98p
17 Mb/s: 1920 x 1080 @ 59.94i/p, PF29.97, 23.98p
5 Mb/s: 1920 x 1080 @ 59.94i/p, PF29.97, 23.98p

Were you looking at the US version or the PAL version?

As far as the BNC connection goes will you be connecting to one of the boxes like the ones on this page - http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?atclk=Video+Input_HD-SDI&ci=16557&N=4231656263+3866430169+4276734428?

Superimposing simply means it will display the time code on top of the video much like an overlay. If you want the BNC connector then you should go with XA25 instead of the XA20. I would avoid trying to use an HDMI to BNC converter box. It would be less expensive but I think the onboard one would be better.
Take a look at the link below as it will do a much better job of explaining the advantages of using HD SDI than I can:
http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/technical/hd_sdi_explained.do
 

west88

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I'm looking for PAL version.
The website you linked don't work for me:
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This page may have moved or is no longer available.

Please check the web address you entered to make sure it is correct.

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I don't know how we will set up timecode yet. We need to sync video from camera (most likely Canon AX20) and audio recorded in Logic Pro software. We do not have any extra equipment yet, not even BNC wires. Only thing we have are microphones that we used for audio recording in past, but we have no experience with cameras.
 

kenrivers

Splendid
Moderator
The PAL version more than likely will not record 60fps but instead will record 50fps. There is a difference in frame rates between the NTSC and the PAL systems. The PAL version of the XA20 is the XA20E. Search the B&H site for the XA20E.
 

west88

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Thank you again kenrivers. 50 fps might be to low for our need, but I might be able to work with it. I need to reconsider. We will be recording human face as a reference for animators and to be used for tracking. Straight shoots from tripod, no camera movement at all.
 

west88

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Both Sony HDR-CX900E and Sony FDR-AX100E seams to have high fps rates, but I can not find anywhere to confirm that they have timecode. I found a few posts that claim that Sony FDR-AX100E don't have it, but it is not anything official.

I might still go with Canon XA20E.
 

kenrivers

Splendid
Moderator


I don't think you will go wrong with that choice.
 

west88

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I just need to figure out how to apply the 'timecode Superimposed on HDMI Output signal' to Logic Pro software in Mac Pro :/ It doesn't sounds like a problem free job :( I'm a bit scared that I will buy this camera and this type of timecode output will not be compatible :/
 

kenrivers

Splendid
Moderator
Is the audio going to be recorded on camera as the video is being recorded or are you recording the audio separately? Is Logic Pro going to be used to enhance the recorded audio or add a sound track?

According to page 76 of the user manual "The camcorder can generate a time code signal and embed it in your recordings". I understand the reservation, the only thing I can think of is if you know someone who owns one and would allow you to do a test recording.
 

west88

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The audio will be recorded from separate microphone not connected to camera. Logic Pro will be used to record and save sessions on the go. We can record audio on camera just as a safe option to sync external audio with video by clapperboard if everything else fails.

Thaks again for all the feedback
 

kenrivers

Splendid
Moderator


Recording audio on camera as a backup is a good idea since that camcorder comes with two XLR inputs.
 
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