Carmack: Mobile Tech Surpassing Console in 2yrs

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amk-aka-Phantom

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This guy is an epic troll. Approximately every week there is a new article on Tom's which says "Carmack said that..." and all the time he talks along the lines of how phones, tablets and so one will soon surpass desktops and laptops. He's just full of it.
 

cuthbert

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[citation][nom]MasterMace[/nom]Therabiddeer: No. Microsoft and Sony have both stated that the 360 and PS3 are only 1/2way thru their life cycles.[/citation]

That is a very, very misleading fact.

Just because a consoles "life cycle" is 10 years, that isn't how long it is going to be the "current gen" or top models. Just how long they want the system to continue having good game development. As an example, the PlayStation 2 also had a target life cycle of 10 years (starting in 2000) but the PlayStation 3 came out 6 years after the release of the PlayStation 2. And this is even with Sony saying that they reached it's intended goal of a 10 year life cycle.

Using those same numbers and timeframe, the "PlayStation 4" easily could come out in 2012 and be on the same pace as past systems.

 

CaedenV

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As smart phones become available for a longer time there will be a larger gap between the high and low end models. I mean, look at the difference between the low and high end pentium/pentium PRO, sure there was a difference in power, but not much. Then look at the later gen P4s where there was about a 3x difference in processing power. And now look at how we have crappy little pentiums (which are worse than my C2D), all the way up to the screaming i7 (which are easily 4x my C2D). The mobile environment will be much the same, and while console-like mobile devices will be available, they will not be main stream.
Lastly let us not forget that hardware capability is one thing, finding intelligent programmers for mobile 'throw away' software is a whole different issue. So the hardware will be amazing, but it will be under utilized.
 

DSpider

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PS Vita is supposedly on the same level as the PS3, and PS3-grade [portable] graphics is good enough for me. Two years from now if Apple, LG or Panasonic release a portable device that has better graphics than that, more power to them. But again, I kinda doubt it.

Look at the PSP for instance. The iOS devices have some (close to) console-quality games (Dead Space comes to mind) but they don't stack up to a dedicated gaming device like the PSP. Even if it's underpowered, 32 MB RAM, 4 MB GPU, (up to) 333 MHz CPU, it still packs one hell of a punch in some games like God of War.
 
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So that means in 3 years they will surpass the Wii U. Go going Nintendo!
 

dalauder

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[citation][nom]tommysch[/nom]Why do people keep on reporting what that has-been keep spewing? He is in the farmville market now, he has to sell his BS somehow.Its like saying that a Toyota Prius will be faster than a BMW M3 in a couple of years... In real life the bigger the size and power envelope the faster. If you can get X speed with a iPad a form factor 5 times its size will stick drag the iPad through the mud at any give point in time.Tomorrows mobile devices will be aiming at 1980*1080 gaming while PCs will be looking at 3D Virtual reality gaming...[/citation]I don't get why people are acting like a smartphone can't be more powerful than a console. Has anyone played an Xbox 360 lately? The graphics are horrendous compared to PC. Saying a smartphone can't match it in two years is like saying a PSP in 2004 matching a PSOne is impossible.

8 year old tech is OLD and mobile stuff can match it. A 2013 $300 phone will be able to do what a $300 laptop can do now--which is match a console on 720p gaming.
 

dalauder

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The challenge for new consoles will be to be more useful than smartphones. If smartphones can connect to your home network and stream media to your TV as well as act as touchpads (instead of mouse) to use your TV like a computer and browse the internet on a bigscreen and drive 3D content, then what is a next-gen console supposed to accomplish?

Mind blowing graphics? That's not that large of a market when you consider the price tags that will require. A PS4/Xbox 720 are gonna run you $500 and the hardcore gamers that only care about graphics have already converted to PC. And putting $500 into a PC will still get you a better gaming system (not to mention new games are $50 instead of $60).

Sony messed up not already launching a PS4 while console gaming with good graphics was still relevant. It doesn't matter to Microsoft as their only goal is to have a foothold in the console market to drive the market away from displacing Windows computers (or be in the running if it does). Microsoft would be happy to see the console market die and get replaced by Windows PCs and Windows Phones--so it's Sony that's screwed if they can't get people to spend $500 to buy a new Madden Box.
 

HVDynamo

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[citation][nom]tommysch[/nom]Its like saying that a Toyota Prius will be faster than a BMW M3 in a couple of years... In real life the bigger the size and power envelope the faster. If you can get X speed with a iPad a form factor 5 times its size will stick drag the iPad through the mud at any give point in time.Tomorrows mobile devices will be aiming at 1980*1080 gaming while PCs will be looking at 3D Virtual reality gaming...[/citation]

I think you are missing the point. Based on your analogy my old pentium 2 should be faster than my iPhone 4 when in fact the iPhone 4 is at least double the performance. The point is that the speed in which new mobile hardware is being introduced is much faster than it used to be, and is with larger form factors. It's catching up. Considering that the PS3/XBOX is as old as it is now and with no intention shown by Sony/Microsoft to upgrade the hardware the consoles are stagnant while fresh new mobile tech rolls off the line damn near daily. So I am not surprised when someone predicts that 6ish year old tech will be slower than my phone in 2 years.

 

HVDynamo

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[citation][nom]rantoc[/nom]I think Mr.Carmack have smoked too much weed or just trying to get attention (like everyone with a new title). Sure he did some great titles back in time but see a phone compete with the consoles is laughable at best, i doubt they even will be able to compete with the today 5-6 years old consoles for years to come and there are new ones comming. The power/thermal budget wont allow the phones to perform anywhere near that in the foreseeable future. Even todays 3d games lacks everything but the basics, low res, no real shader power ect. I would laugh my ass off too see any phone's fps rendering frames with the same detail and resolution. Maby it should be called FPM in that test not FPS![/citation]

Actually I think you are the one smoking too much weed. Sure, phones aren't as fast as consoles now, But they are getting closer, and fast. Also, of course there are new ones coming, but if Sony and Microsoft have told us anything its that their consoles are going to be as is for 6ish more years. That gives mobile tech plenty of room to catch up and even pass current consoles. Yes the thermal envelopes of the consoles is too high for a mobile device, but they aren't designed to be mobile. We are still comparing two completely different architectures and silicone processes. The ARM architecture is becoming more and more powerful at an almost blinding pace while the larger form-factors have a much more relaxed pace especially when we consider the consoles.
 

twile

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There are a couple interesting points to be made here, I think.

The first is that, of course, current consoles are old. It's not 2006 anymore. We haven't called the Wii/PS3/360 "next gen" for many years. We're in just a few months from the 6 year anniversary of the 360, and 5 year anniversaries for the PS3 and Wii, at time when consoles are traditionally replaced with something later and greater. The Wii will have a successor within a year or so, but that isn't supposed to be much better than the 360 or PS3. Those two systems are very much overdue for refresh announcements. So should we be surprised that devices which sell for $600+ without subsidies will be able to match hardware which will be 8 or more years old? No. It's just the timing, and the timing is poor for consoles. When a new generation of consoles comes out, it will reset the relative performance gap between console and mobile. Which brings me to the next interesting point.

Consoles currently use the ARM architecture. This should put them on the same playing field as mobile devices when it comes to power efficiency and cost-effectiveness. If you were to graph performance versus time for both consoles and mobile devices, both should be going up at the same rate, just with consoles making huge jumps every ~5 years and smartphones making very minor jumps several times a year. Let's pretend that connecting a mobile device to a TV becomes very easy, and controls or connected controllers are heavily improved to compete with dedicated gaming devices. For people who get high-end mobile devices already (smartphone users, people with tablets and high end media players, etc), the question will become "Is it worth $300-500 every ~5 years to have better graphics and a media streaming device?"

A final point is that we already have a platform which has the high performance range of consoles and the steady improvement curve of smartphones. It's called the PC. If there's one thing I've learned in knowing PC gamers, it's that very few of them have stuff from the latest generation. I know people who are still rocking the Pentium 4. I myself am using graphics cards from three years ago. Indeed, if you talk to many console gamers about why they don't want PCs, up there with the "It's too complicated" complaint you'll often find people feeling that they have to spend a fortune to stay up-to-date with the latest hardware. Of course, I argue to them that they don't NEED to get the latest hardware, but the notion is still there. This translates to smartphones. Not everyone wants to renew their contract and shell out big bucks every year, or drop $600+ off-contract, just to have something which is twice as fast.

So if everyone went the mobile route, what would that translate to? Fragmented performance levels. As a developer you can't JUST target the latest and greatest because then you're missing out on a huge part of the market. You need to make something which degrades gracefully for several generations at least, which could mean developing for something which is 1/5th the speed of your flagship. If you toss in tablets, which have larger batteries and can have faster processors, that can increase the performance discrepency even further. So what do you do? Develop something which can scale back to run on 10% of the flagship's resources, or not develop things that take full advantage of the flagship? The former is a challenge, and the latter just makes it not very appealing to upgrade to new hardware until a generation or two later... which starts getting back to the console mentality of strategic hardware releases that consumers and developers can all buy into.

I really don't understand what Carmack and Will Wright are getting at, in light of that. Pretending that smartphones are the only devices out there, there's nothing stopping you from having a 3-4 year development cycle. In fact, you can work it to your benefit. When you start making a game, you develop for the fastest thing out there. You get the core mechanics in place, basic graphics, sound, controls. You consider the fastest device, which is your standard dev platform for that game, to be the slowest thing it will target on release. A year rolls by and new hardware comes out. Great! While most of the team continues to work on a base code set and game assets which are optimized for your baseline hardware, you get part of the team to improve the game assets to take advantage of the newer, faster hardware. Continue to do this until it's release time, at which point you have assets optimized for all major performance levels. Alternately, develop game assets which are much higher quality than current platforms can utilize, targeting what you anticipate will be the performance level by the time you're ready to release, and then use tools to effectively downsample the assets... lower-quality shaders, smaller textures, simpler game models, fewer particles, etc. See also, PC gaming. Benefits: Assuming your computer is from within the past few years, you can take advantage of as much performance as it has to offer.
 

hannibal

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One thing is that are people willing to buy a game console and a smartphone for gaming. If smart phone is fast enough for simple casual games, is there room for Wii type consoles?
Consoles will provide better craphic and more options for controllers, byt hand held devises seems to be increasing popular among the younger folks. It may become so that they think that anything that is not mobile, is seriously outdated... I feel like a fossil allready...
The future of gaming?
1) mobile and casual gaming (low power smartphones) -> maybe vireles connection to HD-TV
2) Serious FPS, driving games etc. (high power smartphones, consoles, PC) -> connected to HD-TV
3) Online role and FSP games (consoles, PC, High power smatphones?) -> connected to internet and HD-TV or higher resolution monitor (PC)
4) Strategy games and very high resolution games (PC, high power consoles?) -> high resolution monitor, or projector.
It is possible that smartphone takes big part of the gaming cake, if HD-TV will remain the "limiting" factor for gaming. Consoles and PC have all those extra devices like steering wheel and so on that smart phones don't have (so far at least). But as I said I am a gaming fossile and next generation may actulyalli like more mobile like controller that antigue keyboard, mouse, rasing wheel type controllers...
 

demonhorde665

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this is the dumbest f--- thing i ever heard , sure mobile game sales will surpas consoles (might already have) but the hardware WILL NEVER , this is like saying lap tops will be more powerful than full desk top pc's it's just ludicriously stupid. keep in mind also phones wil never need to run a 1080p resolution (or higher) EVER because there is NO need to have that sort of resolution on a 2-5 inch screen. there fore the hardware in aphoen will NEVER suprass consoles in capability.


geezus the more carmack opens his mouth the more i trhink he is a douche.
 

Userremoved

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[citation][nom]demonhorde665[/nom]this is the dumbest f--- thing i ever heard , sure mobile game sales will surpas consoles (might already have) but the hardware WILL NEVER , this is like saying lap tops will be more powerful than full desk top pc's it's just ludicriously stupid. keep in mind also phones wil never need to run a 1080p resolution (or higher) EVER because there is NO need to have that sort of resolution on a 2-5 inch screen. there fore the hardware in aphoen will NEVER suprass consoles in capability. geezus the more carmack opens his mouth the more i trhink he is a douche.[/citation]
Consoles can't even render proper 1080p they just upscale and a lot of phone have high resolution screens so what tells you brand new technology can't beat some aging 6 year old budget computer components?
 

Vladislaus

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[citation][nom]Userremoved[/nom]Consoles can't even render proper 1080p they just upscale and a lot of phone have high resolution screens so what tells you brand new technology can't beat some aging 6 year old budget computer components?[/citation]
The ps3 can output 1080p in certain games without up-scaling it.

The PS Vita still doesn't beat the PS3 and that has a hardware a lot more powerful than any phone/tablet on sale and it uses a OS with a much smaller overhead than any phone/tablet.
 

Userremoved

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[citation][nom]Vladislaus[/nom]The ps3 can output 1080p in certain games without up-scaling it.The PS Vita still doesn't beat the PS3 and that has a hardware a lot more powerful than any phone/tablet on sale and it uses a OS with a much smaller overhead than any phone/tablet.[/citation]
"In some games" Yeah the two games that were made for it in 2006. Give it two years and smartphones will have quad cores with ridiculous graphic chips.

Ill do a comparison:
If I have an old high-end Dell from 2000 then my half decent laptop from 2011 will beat it in therms of performance.
 

badaxe2

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Who cares. It's not like we'll ever enjoy full-fledged gaming experiences on a 3" touch screen like you do on a 50" screen with surround sound, or a PC with a 30" monitor point blank + headphones.

Besides, 2 years after smart phones surpass consoles, new consoles will come out to smoke them. PC goes without saying as it has always been ahead.

 

Vladislaus

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[citation][nom]Userremoved[/nom]"In some games" Yeah the two games that were made for it in 2006. Give it two years and smartphones will have quad cores with ridiculous graphic chips.Ill do a comparison:If I have an old high-end Dell from 2000 then my half decent laptop from 2011 will beat it in therms of performance.[/citation]
In two years perhaps phones will have the PS Vita beaten, but I have my doubts that they will be better than today's consoles. And this point is moot because in all likelihood in two years today's consoles will already have a replacement.

Also you're comparison is invalid, you're comparing an old laptop with a new laptop, Carmack is comparing a smartphone with a console, which are different platforms.
 

house70

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I'm afraid phones will not catch up with consoles or PCs just because of a simple but ignored fact: batteries. Unless something revolutionary comes along to power up the foreseen phones, they will have a charge duration of about 30 mins tops. And playing with them plugged in a charger just negates the very purpose of them: mobility gaming devices. Everyone is blabbering about ARM architecture and processing power, but nobody is saying where that power will come from.
 
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