Carmack Not Impressed With Next-Gen Console Hardware

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kartu

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[citation][nom]christarp[/nom]Until holodecks are invented virtual reality is going to always be subpar to real life and be right in the middle of the uncanny valley.[/citation]
I'd say once helms start to correctly respond to you rotating head (which isn't that big of a deal) it will be pretty decent.
 

tomfreak

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VR is the future? lol? whos gonna wear that heavy spec while gaming.

Carmark should be putting heavy focus on Games physics and AI. These 2 thing arent any near realistic enough. BF3 pushed the destructable walls but still quite static. The AI arrent even near the intellegent of my dog.
 

alidan

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[citation][nom]DRosencraft[/nom]He's partially right, but does he really think VR technology is anywhere near the point that it can be commercialized by any gaming company? We're still trying to work out the kinks of 3D ad get rid of the glasses. Any attempt to implement VR right now is nothing more than a sales gimmick. I'm all for innovation, but it would be way too soon for the big three to head down that road. And Nintendo went down the Virtual Boy road a decade and a half ago, with very dismal results. They'll wait for a bit more maturation.[/citation]

you are partially right... tv was a gimmik when it first came out too, so was hd, well also color, hay remember sound in movies...

what i'm saying is that a head set is an investment. yea it may be steep, and may be only 720p (it can be higher, but what he is experimenting with is 720p) and most likely 3d (screen per eye) and if i'm correct also has motion sensors on it so it knows you are moving your head.

the only people who would say no to a headset are people who never used one, once you do... its very hard to go back.

[citation][nom]yturk182[/nom]Carmack may well turn out to be the biggest fad boy imaginable, he certain hold little sentimentality or loyalty to his current interest. He made his money from PC gaming and discarded it like yesterday's toy for Consoles and now happy to move on to his next big thing VR gaming. Before you can say Slow Down Tiger, i am sure he will move on to whatever bright new toy he gets his hands on.If you follow him, then you are just setting yourself up to be discarded like yesterday's thrash as Carmack like all self absorbed narcissists do not do loyalty except to themselves.[/citation]

yea, because a 3d head mount display cant be used in EVERY GAME EVER MADE, it may not take advantage of the special crap inside for head tracking, and that would be a shame, but i have personally been waiting on an affordable head mount display for the last 9 years of at least 1280x720 quality.

if anything, he may bring the prices down during the "fad" stage, because god knows if these things sell in the 500k range a year, they wont cost more than a 60inch 1920x1080 120hz 3d tv.

[citation][nom]Pyree[/nom]VR is about bring realism in virtual space. When the graphics is not realistic, without mastering the graphics to look photo realistic, how can it deliver an authentic VR experience? VR in compromised graphic is IMO not virtual reality, just interactivity of virtual space through input other than keyboard and mouse, because it simply lack the visual realism and not reproducing realism.[/citation]

you dont understand immersion.

imagine a raceing game, i know i bring it up allot, where it has full head tracking, you have a wheel, you look the yor right, you see a car, you look to the left and see people, you look behind you and you see more cars, you look at the dash, and that is now your hud, 3, 2, 1, go, you are raceing, the game is tracking your head movement, you look a little to toyr right and it looks with you...

just imagine that, my god... i want it now.

[citation][nom]bemused_fred[/nom]Frankly, lower graphics are better in those situations. No matter how efficient your engine is, creating a large, HD, 3d game requires a lot of effort from highly skilled artists and a lot of money.[/citation]

no, it doesn't.
sure hd means better textures,
higher resolutions, mean more detail,
more powerful cards mean more graphics.

but we hit a point where we already make uber models of everything, and scale them back to work on consoles, the next gen wont increase cost by much to make a AAA game. and adding 3d to it? it takes that mindset from the get go to do it right, not more money, or even making it harder to do.

[citation][nom]Bloob[/nom]It's not just about graphics, it's AI & physics and general gameplay mechanics also that can benefit from next gen consoles. It's a pity that "the great" Carmack can't think of any uses for some extra power. IMO just the fact that you wouldn't have to spend that much resources on optimizing stuff makes next gen worth it.[/citation]

physics... if its a major gameplay element, they implement it, if its just eyecandy bs they dont. tell me a game play mechanic that cant be done today, lets say its a mechanic that can be done on the pc, that isnt on the consoles. ai? most publishers NEVER add anything to ai, because they want to push the better graphics, its sad, that most of the time, normal and hard dont make the enemies smarter, just you do less damage, and can take less hits. a next gen wont solve that problem.

[citation][nom]doorspawn[/nom]I'm actually quite surprised at the hate here. This guy was the god of PC gaming in the 90s, he pioneered tons of graphics techniques that are part of pretty much every game you play. He releases the full source of his games after a few years. He has built many games that were loved by the gaming community. He has helped tell the video card makers know what they need to prioritize.In short, right now your games are faster and prettier due to Carmack.Is this negativity all from young people that only know about a couple of the most recent of Carmack's years and have no idea what he has actually achieved?[/citation]

no its morons who decided "he makes games for consoles, and left the pc, lets hate EVERYTHING HE DOES now because its not pc and about giving us better graphics"

[citation][nom]DroKing[/nom]Calling me young? I been around that time and I respected him for that but that was in PAST. You cannot overlook his recent shenanigans.[/citation]

making a grate engine that glitched for some people in the beginning? trying to make enemy ai the main feature of the game while still giving grate graphics? or are you just saying because he made a game that was ALSO on a console that everything he does now is crap?

[citation][nom]kcorp2003[/nom]it appears so. the audience here don't know much about game development just completely ignorant with the attention span of a 4 year old.[/citation]

i know him as basically a coding savant.

[citation][nom]amk-aka-Phantom[/nom]And I should care about what YOU think is the future of gaming because...? I don't want "virtual reality", I really don't. I LIKE being detached from the game.Precisely. I don't care that he was "a god of gaming" in the 90s, that was then - this is now. Tell me guys, what did Carmack work on recently that deserves my attention as a gamer?All that said, besides the graphics, they seriously need to come up with better ideas for games. Military shooter crap got boring, BF3 or not, it's all the same boring BS. Haven't seen a worthy RTS since Dawn of War 1 (but that's just me, I guess, I have very high demands from an RTS). More or less innovative and entertaining series get overtaken and stomped into dust by EA. I'm literally at the point where I have money for a graphics card upgrade and don't care, because for what? Consoles or PC, originality is what really suffers nowadays.[/citation]

with rage he tried to make enemy ai the focus of the game, something no other company seams to ever focus on in the right way.

[citation][nom]bustapr[/nom]I'm not entirely sure about this, but wouldn't an LED screen 1 inch(or less) from your eyeballs be bad for you? anyway, the thing looks lik a cool idea. Definitely possible that it can be the future of gaming as far as the console cycle after this next one. But, I'm a pc guy, and I really love using my mouse for FPS games. I would not enjoy games using a controller as is most definitely needed to unlock the full potential of this headset. I imagine that after an hour using this headset your eyes would be freakishly bloodshot...[/citation]

not really, the good ones make you feel very comfortable looking into them.

[citation][nom]doorspawn[/nom]1. So you seriously think his recent shenanigans are a bigger negative than his early contributions were a positive, enough to say he "shafted PC gaming".2. This guy is still been working on improving graphics for us. He is still pioneering new graphics techniques for us to consume - for example, he recently explored how to bypass the CPU when loading textures from HDD. He currently works to find ways to reduce latency between game engine and monitor - in fact he advocates for gamers' interests with monitor manufacturers (ie, reduce your in-built hardware latencies plz).He's currently working on trying to improve the quality of what is currently niche gaming hardware. No matter how much you're personally not interested in VR, making VR better can not be a negative. Not to mention that his current work on VR also has benefits for non VR gaming.[/citation]

thank you. just have to say that.

[citation][nom]Tomfreak[/nom]VR is the future? lol? whos gonna wear that heavy spec while gaming.Carmark should be putting heavy focus on Games physics and AI. These 2 thing arent any near realistic enough. BF3 pushed the destructable walls but still quite static. The AI arrent even near the intellegent of my dog.[/citation]

because battle field 3 is a multiplayer game, you think they focused on ai enough to make it better than cod?

physics... all it would do for the most part would be eye candy and require FAR more out of the servers than currently. predetermined with pc side eye candy is better than real server side physics.

and lastly i would. even if it weighed 20lbs... i would just build up neck muscles.

[citation][nom]Afrospinach[/nom]He is in essence saying game play evolutions like new ways to interact with and experience the game environment are the way forward not more pretty and I agree with him, how could anyone not.[/citation]

because i believe most people who play games are morons who only care about graphics and don't ever think about the possibilities, and its proven in all the thumb up people who hate him get.
 

demonhorde665

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"Carmack Not Impressed With Next-Gen Console Hardware"


I'm not impressed with any game this guy has released in the last 15 years , seriously i think carmack stopped being relevant about 15 years ago. none of his games do any thing new or eve tried to do any thing , and he talks about games being stagnant now and how new hardware won't produce any thing really new ... f--- makes me want to slap this guy biggest hypocrit i've ever ehard open their mouth. well ask me VR won't really produce any thing new either when it has the same pack of oldies coding for it , a shooter in Vr won't relaly be that differnt than a shooter today really it wil still involve the player shooting at a bunch of bad guys.

you wnat to see inovation we need to look at the software design level , not look at new ahrdware period .. true inovation in games doesn't occur on hardware but occurs in software. that means what we need for real innovation is new genre's not new ways to play old genres.
 

techguy911

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What needs to happen for consoles is less loading screens and more action all current consoles have small amount of ram just that alone put limits on games and even with the released specs of next gen consoles it's still not enough to remove all the loading screens.
Consoles should also have the capability of using keyboards, mice and other controllers giving the user the choice of what to use.
What i find sad is the state of console game development most big titles the developer goes bankrupt due to EA.
Example kingdoms of Amalur sold quite a few games but the developer had to file for bankruptcy and no dlc was created this seems to be the norm and has to stop it will cause the console game market to dry up just like the pc.
 

john_4

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Virtual reality is the future of gaming, not prettier graphics
I call the BS flag. I would love to see graphics in my games that look like some of the new movie graphics. It's not higher resolutions it better graphics. Even the older movie Final Fantasy the Spirits Within graphics were phenomenal. We have a ways to go in graphics in games still.
 

john_4

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[citation][nom]Tomfreak[/nom]VR is the future? lol? whos gonna wear that heavy spec while gaming.Carmark should be putting heavy focus on Games physics and AI. These 2 thing arent any near realistic enough. BF3 pushed the destructable walls but still quite static. The AI arrent even near the intellegent of my dog.[/citation]
Agree and second this one.
 

alidan

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[citation][nom]demonhorde665[/nom]"Carmack Not Impressed With Next-Gen Console Hardware"I'm not impressed with any game this guy has released in the last 15 years , seriously i think carmack stopped being relevant about 15 years ago. none of his games do any thing new or eve tried to do any thing , and he talks about games being stagnant now and how new hardware won't produce any thing really new ... f--- makes me want to slap this guy biggest hypocrit i've ever ehard open their mouth. well ask me VR won't really produce any thing new either when it has the same pack of oldies coding for it , a shooter in Vr won't relaly be that differnt than a shooter today really it wil still involve the player shooting at a bunch of bad guys.you wnat to see inovation we need to look at the software design level , not look at new ahrdware period .. true inovation in games doesn't occur on hardware but occurs in software. that means what we need for real innovation is new genre's not new ways to play old genres.[/citation]
[citation][nom]LePhuronn[/nom]No Mr Carmack, the future of gaming is based on games that are actually any good, something you've not done in a very long time.[/citation]

he makes the game engines, not the games themselves... why cant people realize that?

[citation][nom]techguy911[/nom]What needs to happen for consoles is less loading screens and more action all current consoles have small amount of ram just that alone put limits on games and even with the released specs of next gen consoles it's still not enough to remove all the loading screens.Consoles should also have the capability of using keyboards, mice and other controllers giving the user the choice of what to use.What i find sad is the state of console game development most big titles the developer goes bankrupt due to EA.Example kingdoms of Amalur sold quite a few games but the developer had to file for bankruptcy and no dlc was created this seems to be the norm and has to stop it will cause the console game market to dry up just like the pc.[/citation]

to remove all loading screens you need at least 8gb of ram for current games, for ps3 games, like mgs4 it would require 50~ gb...

i would say reasonable loading times are good enough, possibly 1gb of ram just for prefetch stuff, so loading can happen while you play the game, or even some of what needs to be loaded is in that 1gb to really speed up the times...

most games currently use 1-2gb of ram, skyrim being a rare exception that can use 4gb (granted i never had problems with out that mod, but some people did)

[citation][nom]eddieroolz[/nom]I agree that next-gen consoles do not excite me, but I don't believe virtual reality is the future of gaming.[/citation]

any fps, any horror game, any raceing game, ALL would benefit from a head mount.
other games it would mostly be a decent screen, but some games this would be a game changeing experiance, without needing motion controls.

the wiiu currently has tech demos where you use the pad as kind of a hmd... which would be great, but people fail to see the possibilities more often than now complaining that it will sucks to hold without ever holding one.
 

jibbs

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hmm...Carmack says high rez is not important. Maybe that's why all the textures in Rage looked like something from an Nintendo 64...And I'm talking about the PC version!
 

silvermember

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[citation][nom]doorspawn[/nom]I'm actually quite surprised at the hate here. This guy was the god of PC gaming in the 90s, he pioneered tons of graphics techniques that are part of pretty much every game you play.[/citation]

The keyword in that statement WAS. He might have been the top in the 90s, but that isn't relevant to today. I would go as far as to say that he is washed up and the only reason people still bother with him is because HE was somebody back then. Anyways his recent track record isn't something to be impress about which is what counts.
 
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When Virtual reality is as good as the matrix or caprica then sign me up
otherwise it will suck and make you sick
 

DroKing

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[citation][nom]jkflipflop98[/nom]He's totally right. Look how many idiots are on here disagreeing with him. That should tell you something right there.[/citation]

You calling others an idiot just because we have a different opinion? What a genius you are!
 

bigdog44

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Should read "console makers not impressed by John Carmack".
He is obviously saying the next gen hardware is enough to run with his accessory, but its too expensive for both parties to make a profit. Software and ads is where the real $ is.
He is right in sort-of referencing latency as the killer. This is systemic though, not just with input.
 

daglesj

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There are only about 8 types of games and everything else is just a variation on a type with more and more polygons and cut scene FMV.

What else does he or anyone else expect?

It's mostly been done already. Give it another 10 years and we'll all still be playing Halo 7, Resistance 6, Crysis 6, Battle Field 5, Tomb Raider Ad Nauseum edition, Final Fantasy 23 etc. etc.
 
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He is right the future is VR. But proper VR is expensive for the average consumer. Failed to do that we want super low latency input connected to on screen action. Also 60 fps with no hiccups display is mandatory.

We had this in 1986 (Twin Cobra,Shinobi etc) at the arcades, every console release since Genesis , and SuperFamicom has been a downhill. The first sucessfull 3D consoles like N64, Playstation introduced big latency between input and onscreen action, the games lost their immediate snap and i lost interest. This exists up to the current consoles.

Developers prefer to push more polys and eyecandy,physics even if that means 30 fps, with slowdowns.
Bring proper arcade hardware Back!!!
 

annymmo

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The next improvement in 3D will be light field cameras/screens.
(It's like 3D but it does image and the direction from which light comes.)
 
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