Doonesbury

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Stu Venable" <srvenable@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ZkKTd.5431$MY6.3@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...

> Wasn't (or isn't) the whole purpose of touring to promote the record?
> I've always assumed that the real revenue came from CD sales and touring
> was there as part of the record company's marketing campaign.

I expect we could see an era where CDs support the tour. The big returns
will always belong to the people with the money to buy marketing. We can
look forward to a golden age of huge carnival music festivals going every
week, all year, so the "superstars" can haul in enough cash to pay for more
layers of bling.

The smaller groups and singer/songwriters will feed off the overflow,
setting up secondary acts and putting out the hat. Swag tables as far as
the eye can see, like supermarkets of emblematic apparel, program books and
souvenire doodads.

I'm going to get a Green Day toaster.

dtk

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Stu Venable" <srvenable@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ZkKTd.5431$MY6.3@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Wasn't (or isn't) the whole purpose of touring to promote the record? I've
> always assumed that the real revenue came from CD sales and touring was
> there as part of the record company's marketing campaign.

Touring is how the band makes money, because they see so little from the
records after the record company subtracts the production costs. Of course
I'm talking about the bands that actually subsidize their own tours.

Sean

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 18:43:05 GMT, Stu Venable
<srvenable@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Mike Rivers wrote:
>>Doesn't anyone have anything to say about the last couple of days'
>>Doonesbury strips? Or is there nothing more to say?
>>
>>Jimmy Thudpucker speaks the truth.
>>
>>http/www.doonesbury.com/strip/dailydose/index.html
>
>I am very ignorant when it comes to the music business. I head a local
>band that's met with (what I consider) moderate success. We play gigs,
>we sell (moderately priced) CDs and a little merchandise. I know
>*nothing* about the "real" music business. With that being said:
>
>Wasn't (or isn't) the whole purpose of touring to promote the record?

Not all. For many bands touring is making money. For example, ZZ Top
in the early part of their career were a top concert draw, more than
their record sales would suggest. They didn't have a top 40 hit until
much later. The Grateful Dead of course is another example of this.

>I've always assumed that the real revenue came from CD sales and touring
>was there as part of the record company's marketing campaign.

Most bands don't make much money on sales of recordings unless they
are superstars. Smaller acts are usually signed to deals that are
more advantageous to the record companies than to the act.

Al

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <ZkKTd.5431$MY6.3@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> sturvNOSPAM@earthlink.net writes:

> I am very ignorant when it comes to the music business. I head a local
> band that's met with (what I consider) moderate success. We play gigs,
> we sell (moderately priced) CDs and a little merchandise. I know
> *nothing* about the "real" music business. With that being said:
>
> Wasn't (or isn't) the whole purpose of touring to promote the record?

That's the way it is in today's model. It used to be that the record
promoted the artist.

> Aren't the rising ticket costs, merchandising, etc., methods to
> meliorate the cost of (and perhaps from) this particular aspect of
> marketing?

I'm amazed at how affluent certain audiences are. The Birchmere (which
used to be a grubby restaurant that on Tuesday nights hosted The
Seldom Scene, arguably the top rated bluegrass band in the US for
no cover charge) recently held a four-songwriters show headlined by
Guy Clark. The ticket price for this show was $100, and they sold out
three nights, for a $180,000 take. In addition, there's a bar area
outside the music room, while they didn't charge a cover for that
room, they passed the hat and collected another $29,000. And it was
just four people on stage with their guitars. OK, the restaurant has
relocated twice, now seats 600 and has an excellent sound system (but
still has lousy food that you just about gotta come for if you want to
get a decent table) so it's classier than it used to be, but that's
mighty big bucks. I didn't go because I can't conceive of paying that
much money for a concert, but 1800 people did. I think there's some
potential here.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

play_on wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 18:43:05 GMT, Stu Venable
> <srvenable@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Wasn't (or isn't) the whole purpose of touring to promote the record?
>
>
> Not all. For many bands touring is making money. For example, ZZ Top
> in the early part of their career were a top concert draw, more than
> their record sales would suggest. They didn't have a top 40 hit until
> much later. The Grateful Dead of course is another example of this.


Which is why the ClearChannel practice of locking down the radio promotion of concerts was such a scary development.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<gordon@sigmasound.com> wrote in message
news:1109356341.368405.186720@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Just caught those strips this morning; I'm really not sure what to
> think.
>
> The musician (in the sense that when I am playing I wish to be an
> instrument of music) in me believes that what Thudpucker proposes would
> give rise to a lot more *good* music.
>
> However, doesn't his model leave not only the dinosaur
> recording/publishing industry but also the pro audio industry (that's
> US) out in the cold, starving to death?
>
> I imagine that I could fairly easily find a gig playing again, but I
> began concentrating more on engineering than musicking fifteen years
> ago precisely because the life of a wandering minstrel had lost its
> luster. Furthermore, are populations really going to be kinder to
> traveling musicians than the last couple of generations of clubowners?
>
> Hev suggests that music and information are the same thing; I'm not at
> all sure I agree. I'll give you the point that music is free now but I
> continue to question whether that's the way it *should* be.


Anything that can be digitized. Music, movies, books, software, etc. They
are all free at this point. The business model has to take shape around this
fact. I'm not about to begin debating about how it *should be*, but I am
here to tell you how it is *now*. The future just means higher bandwidth,
better more transparent data compression (or bandwidth allowing no
compression at all) and more users partaking.

I think people will still buy CD's
(http/www.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,3604,1315039,00.html). But I
think at this point it would be wise to start offering a T-Shirt for $15
that includes a link for a downloadable version of an album or what have
you.

--
-hev
remove "your opinion" to find me:
www.michaelYOURspringerOPINION.com
http/www.freeiPods.com/?r=14089013

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"will" <wpmusic@sio.midco.net> wrote in message
news:1109359778.207042.142660@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> All intellectual property should be free, huh - try selling that to
> the software industry. Registered marks, trademarks, copyrights, etc.
> are all alive and well, it would seem, except for the music business.
> People who insist that these things should be free are rationalizing
> criminal behavior and encouraging theft. Plain and simple.

I'm only commenting on the current state of information sharing via the
internet. I do not view this as theft or criminal behavior and neither do
the millions of people using this new technology worldwide. What we need to
do is find a way to pay the creators of the information being exchanged. A
great way would be a royalty type system that tracks downloads like we have
for the radio.

Free information exchange is here to stay and growing everyday... are you
ready to accept this new way of life Will? Being stuck on the 'moral'
aspects of this phenomenon is just prolonging a workable solution.

--
-hev
remove "your opinion" to find me:
www.michaelYOURspringerOPINION.com
http/www.freeiPods.com/?r=14089013

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I still buy CDs. After I burn a copy from a friend or listen to some
mp3s and decide it's something worth spending money on.

Cheers,
Trevor de Clercq

Mike Rivers wrote:
> Doesn't anyone have anything to say about the last couple of days'
> Doonesbury strips? Or is there nothing more to say?
>
> Jimmy Thudpucker speaks the truth.
>
> http/www.doonesbury.com/strip/dailydose/index.html
>
> --
> I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
> However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
> lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
> you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
> and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <588v11l80hpk2kmaliauas6oveom1m9hhr@4ax.com> playonAT@comcast.net writes:

> CDs cost about 60 cents to make

Not everyone is like you, recording yourself with equipment that cost
you noting, and having a living income so you don't have to work while
you're making that 60 cent CD.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1109369352.0f72236bdc49efc13ff467b8af58918f@teranews> declerct@REMOVETHISnewschool.edu writes:

> As far as books go, I can just go to the library and check them out for
> free. It's great! Who "rents" books?

But can you plug that book into your computer, make a copy of it, and
send it to someone else?


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 25 Feb 2005 20:12:06 -0500, mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers)
wrote:

>
>In article <588v11l80hpk2kmaliauas6oveom1m9hhr@4ax.com> playonAT@comcast.net writes:
>
>> CDs cost about 60 cents to make
>
>Not everyone is like you, recording yourself with equipment that cost
>you noting,

??? My equipment was free???

and having a living income so you don't have to work while
>you're making that 60 cent CD.

I don't quit follow your logic Mike. FYI, what I live on would be
starvation wages for most people, I barely get by, OK? I'm a musician
for chrissake. Recording is a hobby for me more than a commercial
enterprise.

Al

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to
remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for
the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them
to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not
ask, 'Who is destroying the world?' You are." -Ayn Rand
http/www.working-minds.com/money.htm

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"play_on" <playonAT@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:588v11l80hpk2kmaliauas6oveom1m9hhr@4ax.com...
> On 25 Feb 2005 11:29:38 -0800, "will" <wpmusic@sio.midco.net> wrote:
>
> different business model for the record industry is one thing, but
> >don't think all the blame lies with so-called 'greedy' label execs.
>
> CDs cost about 60 cents to make, and they sell for $17. Are you
> saying that the lion's share of that money is going to the artists?
>
> Al

You realize that a record store pays between 5 and 10 bucks for a CD, don't
you?

jb

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 20:58:07 -0500, "reddred"
<opaloka@REMOVECAPSyahoo.com> wrote:

>
>"play_on" <playonAT@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:588v11l80hpk2kmaliauas6oveom1m9hhr@4ax.com...
>> On 25 Feb 2005 11:29:38 -0800, "will" <wpmusic@sio.midco.net> wrote:
>>
>> different business model for the record industry is one thing, but
>> >don't think all the blame lies with so-called 'greedy' label execs.
>>
>> CDs cost about 60 cents to make, and they sell for $17. Are you
>> saying that the lion's share of that money is going to the artists?
>>
>> Al
>
>You realize that a record store pays between 5 and 10 bucks for a CD, don't
>you?

I thought that was the point of this discussion -- that the middlemen
are fast becoming obsolete, thanks to the internet. What's your
point? Why should I support the record labels, distributors, and
stores over the artist, if I can buy directly from the artist?

Al

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Trevor de Clercq"

> I guess I feel musicians should make their money from teaching,
> performing, working as technicians/engineers, or just working regular
> jobs. So the "music industry" dying doesn't seem a big deal to me. I
> think CDs should cost money to pay for the packaging and distribution
> costs, but the royalties are a weird thing.

I have never once heard someone who makes a living making music, however
meager that living, say they would rather be working a day job.

And the funny thing is, all you guys that think there is no way to make
money distributing music, whether on CD's or over the internet, are just
plain wrong.

jb

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Trevor de Clercq" <declerct@REMOVETHISnewschool.edu> wrote in message
news:1109369904.1a047c680ceb604ebc07b305732591fc@teranews...
> Because it's worth spending money on art and music for no other reason
> than to create quality art and music. When did people start making
> music solely because they wanted to make money?

I think it was in ancient Greece. I know for sure it's been since the 12th
century or so.

jb
..

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 21:06:09 -0500, "reddred"
<opaloka@REMOVECAPSyahoo.com> wrote:

>
>"Trevor de Clercq" <declerct@REMOVETHISnewschool.edu> wrote in message
>news:1109369904.1a047c680ceb604ebc07b305732591fc@teranews...
>> Because it's worth spending money on art and music for no other reason
>> than to create quality art and music. When did people start making
>> music solely because they wanted to make money?
>
>I think it was in ancient Greece. I know for sure it's been since the 12th
>century or so.
>
>jb

I'm not sure where you get your information, but until fairly recently
trained musicians made money only at the whim of their royal patrons,
or other supporters. In the case of indigenous people, music was and
is made as an integrated part of culture, not for profit.

Al

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"reddred" <opaloka@REMOVECAPSyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:_6-dnQT6t_j4SoLfRVn-2A@adelphia.com...
>
> "Trevor de Clercq"
>
>> I guess I feel musicians should make their money from teaching,
>> performing, working as technicians/engineers, or just working regular
>> jobs. So the "music industry" dying doesn't seem a big deal to me. I
>> think CDs should cost money to pay for the packaging and distribution
>> costs, but the royalties are a weird thing.
>
> I have never once heard someone who makes a living making music, however
> meager that living, say they would rather be working a day job.

I've turned hobbies into dayjobs at least three times in my life. It never
fails to ruin the hobby for me. I'm pretty sure I'm going to keep music
just for fun. I am comforted that Vanilla Ice doesn't have to go get a real
job, though.

dtk

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Michael" <ra3035@NOTfreescale.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c8945cce77ebf309896b3@news.freescale.net...
> In article <1109355256.7b4ddb60f579bb554367d58cc4d74907@teranews>,
> declerct@REMOVETHISnewschool.edu says...
>> Call me crazy, but I'm not even sure I totally believe in copyright
>> laws. I have conceptual problems with people "owning" ideas or
>> intangible things like chord progressions or voicings in a specific song
>> or arrangement. Music is so derivative anyway I feel noone can claim
>> the complete right of ownership to a recording or composition because so
>> much in any recording or composition is stolen from hundreds of other
>> recordings or compositions.
>
> Call me crazy, but I'm not sure I totally believe in patent laws.
> I have conceptual problems with people "owning" ideas. Patents are
> so derivitive anyway. Why should we pay to see a movie? Why should
> we pay to rent a book? Directors can make their money off teaching,
> performing(?), just like writers. Why isn't ciruit design free? It's
> just artwork, right?
>
>> I guess I feel musicians should make their money from teaching,
>> performing, working as technicians/engineers, or just working regular
>> jobs. So the "music industry" dying doesn't seem a big deal to me. I
>> think CDs should cost money to pay for the packaging and distribution
>> costs, but the royalties are a weird thing.
>
> Musicians make music. TEACHERS teach, ENGINEERS engineer, etc.
> Just because technology has made it easy to steal a musician's work
> (and now film-makers as well) doesn't make it RIGHT!


Neither is the ridiculous way the music and film industry has made their
money. $19.99 for a CD?!? Please. The true crimes were commited AGAINST the
public in the first place. This is just sweet justice.

Times are changing Michael. You need to start looking at the internet like a
radio that people are "taping" things off of. Royalty might be the way of
the future on the internet. Why not just add a buck of tax to our internet
connections and then have a royalty based system for all art forms to enjoy?


--
-hev
remove "your opinion" to find me:
www.michaelYOURspringerOPINION.com
http/www.freeiPods.com/?r=14089013

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hev wrote:
> Are you sarcastically emphasizing why the industry needs to adapt or
die?
> Or are you really that stuck on the "morals" you are accustom with to
see
> what is happening?
> It is a revolution and the music industry dinosaurs don't get it!

"We have rudiments of reverence for the human body, but we consider as
nothing the rape of the human mind." -Eric Hoffer