DROID 4 Images, Specs Leaked; Bloatware Loathed

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Kami3k

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[citation][nom]watcha[/nom]I This is why Android is purchased more by younger, less educated people, with less income. I also think trying to save money is a primary reason.I'm highly successful and arguably a geek, but this leads me to look at actual performance for gaming, responsiveness, app capabilities, reliability, security, and the iPhone wins on all fronts. [/citation]

Can THG be ban this blatantly obvious paid Apple employee already? If not a paid employee then they are certainly a troll.
 

rh_dog

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[citation][nom]watcha[/nom] I'm highly successful and arguably a geek, but this leads me to look at actual performance for gaming, responsiveness, app capabilities, reliability, security, and the iPhone wins on all fronts. For successful geeks, the iPhone is the phone of choice. For young pretenders with less money, Android is an alternative which they can argue is as good.

It takes a certain self security to not mind buying the same if it's the best, and not needing to find a 'cheaper equivalent' (and failing).The people who I know who buy Android tend to be the sort of guys who buy clothes from charity shops and do most of their work at home through DIY. That's admirable, nothing against that, but most professionals value their time more than it would cost to employ someone to do that. I think the same applies to phones.[/citation]

It think you take my words a little too literally. Perhaps I should not have stated that Apple is for non-geeks and Android is for geeks. I know a lot of very hard core coders, architects, systems engineers and the like who love Apple. And Apple clearly loves them back since they put so many "geeky" things into their devices. One example being Siri's geek-tackular responses to Star Trek based questions.

I do take exception to your phrase "It takes a certain self security to not mind buying the same if it's the best" You state it as if it was fact when "the best" can only be defined by each person who frames their own parameters of what "the best" is. For some people, the iPhone is a better choice, for others, not so much. You can't change the battery on an iDevice, you can only load media through one controlled channel and you can't add storage to it. So here, I have listed 3 downsides that some people don't like which makes an iDevice not the best for them. The whole point of my post was not to bash Apple lovers or pigeon hole Android fans. After reading my post again, it reads that "Android is for geeks". My mistake.

The other thing you speak about is the value of time. You value your time spent away from a doing something with a device. That's fine. However, a lot of people find enjoyment from customizing or playing with a device. Who is to say who spends their time more wisely? A person who spends their time doing what they want to do and truly enjoys themselves while doing it is doing what is best for them. You speak as if a "professional" wouldn't ever want to spend their time playing with a device or phone. Your experiences are limited to you. Other people have different priorities.

So my original rhetorical question remains "Why Apple love or Apple hate?" Different strokes for different folks. And I still want a qwerty LTE phone with a fast F stop lens. I haven't found one yet, I'm hoping that the Droid 4 fills my wishes.
 

watcha

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[citation][nom]rh_dog[/nom]It think you take my words a little too literally. Perhaps I should not have stated that Apple is for non-geeks and Android is for geeks. I know a lot of very hard core coders, architects, systems engineers and the like who love Apple. And Apple clearly loves them back since they put so many "geeky" things into their devices. One example being Siri's geek-tackular responses to Star Trek based questions.I do take exception to your phrase "It takes a certain self security to not mind buying the same if it's the best" You state it as if it was fact when "the best" can only be defined by each person who frames their own parameters of what "the best" is. For some people, the iPhone is a better choice, for others, not so much. You can't change the battery on an iDevice, you can only load media through one controlled channel and you can't add storage to it. So here, I have listed 3 downsides that some people don't like which makes an iDevice not the best for them. The whole point of my post was not to bash Apple lovers or pigeon hole Android fans. After reading my post again, it reads that "Android is for geeks". My mistake.The other thing you speak about is the value of time. You value your time spent away from a doing something with a device. That's fine. However, a lot of people find enjoyment from customizing or playing with a device. Who is to say who spends their time more wisely? A person who spends their time doing what they want to do and truly enjoys themselves while doing it is doing what is best for them. You speak as if a "professional" wouldn't ever want to spend their time playing with a device or phone. Your experiences are limited to you. Other people have different priorities.So my original rhetorical question remains "Why Apple love or Apple hate?" Different strokes for different folks. And I still want a qwerty LTE phone with a fast F stop lens. I haven't found one yet, I'm hoping that the Droid 4 fills my wishes.[/citation]

1 - I didn't specify which phone was 'the best'. The point was that for some people, WHICHEVER phone is the best, doesn't matter if their 'fashionable' but less 'geeky' friend has it. So you shouldn't take offence to that.
2 - You say you can't change the battery, but you can carry a mobile battery charging pack with you which is smaller than a battery to achieve exactly the same result. And you have to change the battery less often.
3 - You can load media through drag and drop (OSX, Windows, etc), via dropbox, via iTunes, over network. In fact pretty much every way you can with Android.
4 - You start out with up to 64GB, which is more than most people need, and you can expand it infinitely online, so it has more storage than anyone would need.
5 - With regard to time spent, I never claimed one way was better than the other. In fact, I specifically stated that it's fine and I respect their choice. Most professionals don't want to waste time getting their phone to achieve what an iPhone can achieve straight away, no. It's wasted time, because there's no benefit. If other people prioritise wasting time, fine.
6 - With regard to the question 'Why Apple love or Apple hate' - as I've already explained, I'm not even pro-Apple, I'm writing this on my Windows 7 Dell laptop. I dislike incorrect claims being made.

I believe the iPhone 4S has a very fast speed in terms of camera picture taking. For a need that specific, you might be better off considering a £100 digital camera.
 

rh_dog

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[citation][nom]watcha[/nom]1 - I didn't specify which phone was 'the best'. The point was that for some people, WHICHEVER phone is the best, doesn't matter if their 'fashionable' but less 'geeky' friend has it. So you shouldn't take offence to that.2 - You say you can't change the battery, but you can carry a mobile battery charging pack with you which is smaller than a battery to achieve exactly the same result. And you have to change the battery less often.3 - You can load media through drag and drop (OSX, Windows, etc), via dropbox, via iTunes, over network. In fact pretty much every way you can with Android.4 - You start out with up to 64GB, which is more than most people need, and you can expand it infinitely online, so it has more storage than anyone would need.5 - With regard to time spent, I never claimed one way was better than the other. In fact, I specifically stated that it's fine and I respect their choice. Most professionals don't want to waste time getting their phone to achieve what an iPhone can achieve straight away, no. It's wasted time, because there's no benefit. If other people prioritise wasting time, fine.6 - With regard to the question 'Why Apple love or Apple hate' - as I've already explained, I'm not even pro-Apple, I'm writing this on my Windows 7 Dell laptop. I dislike incorrect claims being made.I believe the iPhone 4S has a very fast speed in terms of camera picture taking. For a need that specific, you might be better off considering a £100 digital camera.[/citation]

1) ok, none taken
2) Why should someone have to carry something extra? I want everything in one device.
3) ok, fine
4) I need more than 64 GB - I know, I am the exception. I do not like the cloud, it has yet to be proven as a secure place to store information.
5) You assume people are trying to make their device like an iPhone. They are trying to do exactly the opposite.

For your last bit, I did state in my original post that I don't want to carry my DSLR and a phone. So a point and shoot camera would fit in the same category as "one more thing to carry".

Anyway, love the back and forth, but I gotta do something productive now. I'm sure we'll end up discussing something else later on Toms.
 

watcha

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[citation][nom]rh_dog[/nom]
1) ok, none taken

2) Why should someone have to carry something extra? I want everything in one device.

Um dude? To change a battery, you have to carry a spare battery. You can get mobile chargers for the iPhone which are the same size.

3) ok, fine

4) I need more than 64 GB - I know, I am the exception. I do not like the cloud, it has yet to be proven as a secure place to store information.

I'd say the cloud is a lot more secure than a guy holding a phone, which can very easily be lost or stolen. Even if the Cloud turned out to be insecure, having data locally is far more insecure. Indeed the biggest obstacle enterprise businesses had with using iPhones was that data was stored locally and couldn't be removed remotely if the phone was lost. Now they are much happier with iCloud. McAffee even came up with a 'remote delete' app to address this massive security problem with all devices which store on phones, which you have to pay for. There are numerous links showing that Android is all around less-secure than iOS too, such as:

http://www.pchelpforum.com/security-watch/121417-dr-charlie-miller-ios-android-security-video.html

5) You assume people are trying to make their device like an iPhone. They are trying to do exactly the opposite

I'm not at all. All I'm assuming is that the end result of you spending hours on your Android doesn't allow you to do any single useful thing that an iPhone user can't do. Feel free to prove me wrong?

With regard to your camera, I'm sure you'll find something suitable.
 

bystander

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I've played with both an iPhone 4 and my Android HTC Thunderbolt and let my nephew do the same with my phone (he has the iphone). Afterwards, we both came to the conclusion that my Android was the better phone.

Obviously some people feel differently, but I have a hard time reading your posts that seem to have a VERY biased view.
 

watcha

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[citation][nom]bystander[/nom]I've played with both an iPhone 4 and my Android HTC Thunderbolt and let my nephew do the same with my phone (he has the iphone). Afterwards, we both came to the conclusion that my Android was the better phone.Obviously some people feel differently, but I have a hard time reading your posts that seem to have a VERY biased view.[/citation]

I've played with iPhone 4, HTC, Samsung Galaxy S2, as has my gf and most of my friends, and they all came to the conclusion that the iPhone 4 was far better, obviously the better phone. Some people feel differently, but your post seemed to have a VERY biased view.
 

bystander

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[citation][nom]watcha[/nom]I've played with iPhone 4, HTC, Samsung Galaxy S2, as has my gf and most of my friends, and they all came to the conclusion that the iPhone 4 was far better, obviously the better phone. Some people feel differently, but your post seemed to have a VERY biased view.[/citation]

The reason I said your posts are very bias, is you don't except that others have a different opinion. You argue over and over with people that your opinion is fact. When people argue their opinion as being fact, you then become show yourself to be a fanboy.

Think about it.
 

bystander

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Fix: you can ignore the previous post.

[citation][nom]watcha[/nom]I've played with iPhone 4, HTC, Samsung Galaxy S2, as has my gf and most of my friends, and they all came to the conclusion that the iPhone 4 was far better, obviously the better phone. Some people feel differently, but your post seemed to have a VERY biased view.[/citation]

The reason I said your posts are very bias, is you don't except that others have a different opinion. You argue over and over with people and claim your opinions is fact. When people argue that their opinion as being fact, you then show yourself to be a fanboy.

Think about it.
 

bystander

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As far as what we liked about my Android phone better than the iPhone:
1) Widgets. These are vary handy for my work and getting info at a glance. I have my appointment schedule on my main page and I don't have to hunt around for that info. I also have clock/weather widget to allow me to see a lot of info without digging into any apps.
2) 4Glte is very fast, about 4 times faster at downloading than his.
3) The App store. This happened just before the official release of the new Android app store a couple months ago. I downloaded it ahead of time. This is obviously an opinion thing, but he liked it a lot.
4) It has a much larger screen. I know you are comparing the Samsung galaxy, and it had a smaller screen (about the same as an iPhone), but the Thunderbolt has a bigger screen.

I do know that our office manager has an Android Galaxy S now. She does experience problems I do not. She has a friend who has owned 3 other Samsung android phones as well and they all seem to share one problem that you might be associating with all Android phones. They seem to freeze up for a few seconds now and then. I was told it has to do with some special Samsung software that appears to have some bugs. However, HTC phones do not have this issue.

These are my opinions, and I don't expect you to share all of them. However, a few of those items are hard to argue against.

I would also note that when you compare phones with other people, the person with the most experience and know how with their phone, will often show their phone in a better light. My Thunderbolt may have over shadowed my nephews iPhone in part due to my knowledge of my phone. The same could be happening to you.
 

watcha

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[citation][nom]bystander[/nom]The reason I said your posts are very bias, is you don't except that others have a different opinion. You argue over and over with people that your opinion is fact. When people argue their opinion as being fact, you then become show yourself to be a fanboy.Think about it.[/citation]


What are you talking about? Did you mean to say 'accept' that others have a different opinion? Because if you did, he posted his opinion, and I posted mine.

Neither of us had an objection with the other having an opinion.

YOU are the one who seems to have a problem with ME voicing MY opinion. YOU interpret it as me stating facts incorrectly, that's your own fault, not mine.

If someone tells you that their friends prefer X over Y, do you get angry and shout them down too? Saying they shouldn't speak like their opinions are fact?

It's you who needs to heed your own advice and realise that you interpreted my opinion and my friends opinion like that because YOU'RE a fanboy
 

bystander

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Maybe I lumped your posts in with others about labeling opinions as fact, there has been a bit of that and since the majority of the posts have been yours, as might have mistaken those for yours. However, you do seem to not want to accept other peoples opinions.

That said, how can you possible call my comments those of a fanboy. I clearly labeled them as my opinion and I've only voiced those opinions once.

We like different things. Yeah for choice.
 

watcha

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[citation][nom]bystander[/nom]As far as what we liked about my Android phone better than the iPhone:1) Widgets. These are vary handy for my work and getting info at a glance. I have my appointment schedule on my main page and I don't have to hunt around for that info. I also have clock/weather widget to allow me to see a lot of info without digging into any apps.2) 4Glte is very fast, about 4 times faster at downloading than his.3) The App store. This happened just before the official release of the new Android app store a couple months ago. I downloaded it ahead of time. This is obviously an opinion thing, but he liked it a lot.4) It has a much larger screen. I know you are comparing the Samsung galaxy, and it had a smaller screen (about the same as an iPhone), but the Thunderbolt has a bigger screen.I do know that our office manager has an Android Galaxy S now. She does experience problems I do not. She has a friend who has owned 3 other Samsung android phones as well and they all seem to share one problem that you might be associating with all Android phones. They seem to freeze up for a few seconds now and then. I was told it has to do with some special Samsung software that appears to have some bugs. However, HTC phones do not have this issue.These are my opinions, and I don't expect you to share all of them. However, a few of those items are hard to argue against.I would also note that when you compare phones with other people, the person with the most experience and know how with their phone, will often show their phone in a better light. My Thunderbolt may have over shadowed my nephews iPhone in part due to my knowledge of my phone. The same could be happening to you.[/citation]

Regarding widgets, the problem is that many of them drain the battery because they constantly reload / check data etc. For appointments, I get reminders which popup on the main screen in advance, or they are always just 1 click away. I'd prefer 1 click when you're having to press on the screen to unlock it anyway, for gaining battery life. Also, I think you should remember that whatever you have on your front page, it takes away space which may have been something else. For example, I have the standard iOS front page which gives me my custom links to 16 or however many apps. If I had my appointments listed there doing anything else with the phone would take more clicks.

Regarding download speed on 4G vs the dual-antenna iPhone 4S, I am reserving judgement until the Anandtech review of the iPhone 4S. Needless to say, 'my mate says X is faster' is not a compelling argument. Even if true, all phone download speeds vary by location. Theoretically, the dual antenna in the 4S can in some cases be as fast or faster than 4G. I also live in the UK, we don't have 4G coverage yet (the same as most countries), so the iPhone 4S may well be faster for us. It may also be faster for you, like I said I'll wait until there is objective and impartial analysis on that.

Regarding apps, the sheer volume of apps on the iPhone is what a lot of people like. I can watch Sky Sports using a Sky Sports app. There isn't one for Android. That's one of hundreds of situations where the option simply doesn't exist yet on Android (this is improving though). If you can find an app on Android, it's pretty much always on iPhone too, but the reverse isn't always true, in my experience.

Regarding the screen, I prefer a phone which has a smaller volume and fits properly in my pocket without massive bulges. The Samsung Galaxy S2 has a bigger volume and that is uncomfortable and looks silly in my opinion. I also like to use my phone as I walk along or as I hold something else, and 1 handed use is impossible on a bigger screen as my thumb can't reach the far edge. Of course, all of that is entirely opinion.

In general, my friends preferred the longer battery life, better design, higher security reputation, more apps, better PPI screen, they found it easier to use, many commented that the 4S feels a lot faster in day-to-day apps (which is backed up by the Anandtech benchmarks which show it being much faster), and things like the camera taking less time to take photos. They were also impressed with the fact that their friends who had iPhones recommended them, but their friends who had Android complained about freezing, poor battery life and a less responsive screen.

It's a very interesting discussion, and I guess it's just a question of what's important to you.
 

watcha

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[citation][nom]bystander[/nom]Maybe I lumped your posts in with others about labeling opinions as fact, there has been a bit of that and since the majority of the posts have been yours, as might have mistaken those for yours. However, you do seem to not want to accept other peoples opinions.That said, how can you possible call my comments those of a fanboy. I clearly labeled them as my opinion and I've only voiced those opinions once.We like different things. Yeah for choice.[/citation]

You are replying to a post of mine expressing my opinion, criticising me and calling me a fanboy.

Who's not accepting opinions?

I copied your exact post format to show this point to you, and now you're arguing with that - an exact replica of yours just with the names switched around. You're arguing against yourself!
 

bystander

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[citation][nom]watcha[/nom]You are replying to a post of mine expressing my opinion, criticising me and calling me a fanboy.Who's not accepting opinions?I copied your exact post format to show this point to you, and now you're arguing with that - an exact replica of yours just with the names switched around. You're arguing against yourself![/citation]

Unfortunately, I went through your previous post and specified what I agreed, disagreed or had difference of opinions, and it was eaten by the internet, so I won't be doing that again.

That said, a couple places, like you said you preferred the iPhones "better design", are opinions written like they are fact.

That's the type of thing that should not be written if you are to give an unbiased opinion. That said, most of your post was written pretty well as an opinion.

The widget thing does seem to rub me a little the wrong way. You could at least admit it's a nice feature, but don't like the drawback (which is much lower than you are under the impression, since at least the widgets I have, only update when you are on the page it exists on after actively using it).

I also said 4Glte, not 4G.
 

watcha

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[citation][nom]bystander[/nom]Unfortunately, I went through your previous post and specified what I agreed, disagreed or had difference of opinions, and it was eaten by the internet, so I won't be doing that again.That said, a couple places, like you said you preferred the iPhones "better design", are opinions written like they are fact.That's the type of thing that should not be written if you are to give an unbiased opinion. That said, most of your post was written pretty well as an opinion.The widget thing does seem to rub me a little the wrong way. You could at least admit it's a nice feature, but don't like the drawback (which is much lower than you are under the impression, since at least the widgets I have, only update when you are on the page it exists on after actively using it).I also said 4Glte, not 4G.[/citation]

Come on, if someone is saying they prefer the design of something, that means the design is better in their opinion. When things are unprovable and entirely subjective, like design, I think it's absolutely wrong to interpret them as facts, no matter how they are stated.

Regarding widgets, it may be nice for some people, I'm not disputing that. But I genuinely would not use it. Google themselves even admit that some widgets on the phone home screen reduce battery life, and I personally don't think it would benefit me in any way. Instead of having all my apps available on my home screen, I would have to search around for them. It's clearly a choice, whether to have widgets or not, so it can only be a good thing for Android, but it's a choice I would never use. It's also not a choice which stops me actually doing anything with my phone.

Regarding 4G LTE vs 4G, they are the same thing, almost. In actual fact the current LTE does not even meet the 4G standards, despite often being referred to as 4G, so I was being a little generous. Whatever the label, 4G or LTE or 4G LTE, the UK, along with hundreds of other areas, countries and cities, doesn't support it - so there's no benefit to having it right now. Like I said, I am also keen to see how the dual antenna approach in the iPhone 4S works because in their product launch they claimed that it as fast as many '4G' phones. People seem to assume that because the iPhone 4S isn't LTE that it is slower, I'm waiting for actual evidence from Anandtech. I think that's perfectly reasonable.

 

bystander

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In the states, 4Glte is much faster than any other 4G network. The 4G standard might be able to be faster, but the given networks are much slower as they don't really support the full 4G standard.
 

watcha

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[citation][nom]bystander[/nom]And to say you think it's a better design, or you prefer the design is an opinion, to say you prefer their better design is stating it as fact.[/citation]

Given that 'better design' can NEVER be a fact, you would have to be illogical to interpret it as one. I was assuming you were not illogical.
 
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