DVL-909 Question

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

This unit CANNOT output RGB, It can output the Y/Cr/Cb (component) signal
from DVD's if selected as it is recorded in that format. The player has
NOTHING to generate the Y/Cr/CB (component), it only does the D/A and
outputs these signals from the MPEG decoder chip as with any other DVD
player. Again it CANNOT form the Y/Cr/Cb signal from a lower level signal
and the LD section is totally separate as described in the other posting I
made.

Kurtis

"NEWman" <koREMOVETHISteANDTHIStsu@libero.it> wrote in message
news:u0q2h1l8hsp0v7b41ih730ptnlobukdku2@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 03:23:47 -0400, "Steve(JazzHunter)"
> <jazzhunterNotHere@internet.com> wrote:
>
>
> I'm not talking about LD players in general... I don't care about
> other players, surely there are better units than this one.
> I'm talkin about a SPECIFIC LD player here (DVL 909), this unit (which
> is a medium quality player) has a DA converter unit that *CAN*
> output RGB data.
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

"AZ Nomad" <aznomad@PmunOgeBOX.com> wrote in message
news:slrndh3p8s.812.aznomad@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net...
> On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 03:23:47 -0400, Steve(JazzHunter)
> <jazzhunterNotHere@internet.com> wrote:
>
>
> Can you name a single example of one that puts the signal through a comb
> filter
> and then reconstructs it into a composite.

DVL-909 is a good one, there is a long list of players that do this.

Kurtis

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 16:23:56 GMT, AZ Nomad <aznomad@PmunOgeBOX.com>
wrote:

>Can you name a single example of [an LD player] that puts the signal through
>a comb filter and then reconstructs it into a composite.

I can: Pioneer's top-of-the-line PAL player, the CLD-D925.

I'll bet there are many others.

 

[newman]

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 16:39:03 -0400, "Kurtis Bahr" <kbahr@comcast.net>
wrote:

>The LD signal is FM demodulated to composite analog, then goes to IC500
>(D-Video Processor) on the CLDM board where it is digitized to an 8-bit
>composite signal. It is then fed to the MYCB board to IC101 which is a
>Pioneer design where the TBC/Digital Memory/ DVNR happens and then the 8-bit
>signal is passed to IC301 which is the 3D comb Filter. The Analog Y/C
>signals from that is fed to IC620 which is a relay that selects to output
>the LD or DVD signal.
[..]
>The DVD signal goes to the DVDM board and the Y/C is sent to the IC620 relay
>on the MYCB board to output the DVD Y/C signal. Or if you have the
>Component output enable the Y/Cr/Cb signal goes to the MYCB board and
>immediately loops out to the ACVB board which are the terminal outputs(the
>LD section has NO path to this output at all).

Ok, I got it. Still I would like to see the schematics myself.
But what about the CLD 925 then? What does the RGB capable encoder
present in that machine?
And how could the add-on board that is sold, be compatible with both
the 925 and DVL909?

>You are reading more in this than there is, what you are describing is not
>there!! The LD section does not even have any separate Y/C signals you can
>tap out in a digital domain, only signal available is the 8-bit parallel
>composite.
> The board on top processes the DVD signals and the boards on the
>bottom process the LD signals and the two shall never meet until output
>selection and buffering.

But both boards share the On Screen Display, where is this mixed
into? In the IC101?

>I'd suggest taking the Analog immediately after
>the FM demodulation, but then again this would be a CLD-S201 and you didn't
>like that suggestion.

Wouldn't be possible to use the digitized data stream from the CLDM
board?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Wow, this is so cool! The wheel is being re-invented.
Take Kurtis' word for it. He's dead on.
And if you want to see the 909 schematic, simply order the service manual
(RRV1871, in stock @ $51.20)....


"NEWman" <koREMOVETHISteANDTHIStsu@libero.it> wrote in message
news:cde4h1dh64uuapgi5dj0ivg81lrneu3kd4@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 16:39:03 -0400, "Kurtis Bahr" <kbahr@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> >The LD signal is FM demodulated to composite analog, then goes to IC500
> >(D-Video Processor) on the CLDM board where it is digitized to an 8-bit
> >composite signal. It is then fed to the MYCB board to IC101 which is a
> >Pioneer design where the TBC/Digital Memory/ DVNR happens and then the
8-bit
> >signal is passed to IC301 which is the 3D comb Filter. The Analog Y/C
> >signals from that is fed to IC620 which is a relay that selects to output
> >the LD or DVD signal.
> [..]
> >The DVD signal goes to the DVDM board and the Y/C is sent to the IC620
relay
> >on the MYCB board to output the DVD Y/C signal. Or if you have the
> >Component output enable the Y/Cr/Cb signal goes to the MYCB board and
> >immediately loops out to the ACVB board which are the terminal
outputs(the
> >LD section has NO path to this output at all).
>
> Ok, I got it. Still I would like to see the schematics myself.
> But what about the CLD 925 then? What does the RGB capable encoder
> present in that machine?
> And how could the add-on board that is sold, be compatible with both
> the 925 and DVL909?
>
> >You are reading more in this than there is, what you are describing is
not
> >there!! The LD section does not even have any separate Y/C signals you
can
> >tap out in a digital domain, only signal available is the 8-bit parallel
> >composite.
> > The board on top processes the DVD signals and the boards on the
> >bottom process the LD signals and the two shall never meet until output
> >selection and buffering.
>
> But both boards share the On Screen Display, where is this mixed
> into? In the IC101?
>
> >I'd suggest taking the Analog immediately after
> >the FM demodulation, but then again this would be a CLD-S201 and you
didn't
> >like that suggestion.
>
> Wouldn't be possible to use the digitized data stream from the CLDM
> board?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 00:10:58 GMT, "ldservice"
<service@nospam.laserdiscservice.com> wrote:

>Wow, this is so cool! The wheel is being re-invented.
>Take Kurtis' word for it. He's dead on.
>And if you want to see the 909 schematic, simply order the service manual
>(RRV1871, in stock @ $51.20)....

Yep, Newman is taking quotes from Kurtis out of context and
reinventing the laws of physics. quite clever actually.

... Steve ..
>
>
>"NEWman" <koREMOVETHISteANDTHIStsu@libero.it> wrote in message
>news:cde4h1dh64uuapgi5dj0ivg81lrneu3kd4@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 16:39:03 -0400, "Kurtis Bahr" <kbahr@comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>>

 

[newman]

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 19:47:05 -0400, "Steve(JazzHunter)"
<jazzhunterNotHere@internet.com> wrote:

>>On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 16:44:23 -0400, "Kurtis Bahr" <kbahr@comcast.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>This unit CANNOT output RGB, It can output the Y/Cr/Cb (component) signal
>>>from DVD's if selected as it is recorded in that format. The player has
>>
>>AFAIK PAL units can also output RGB from the DVD section.
>
>Mpegs are rendered as Y (-r -b) or Y/Cr/Cb. RGB is the result of
>matrixing those chroma and luminance components. There is no
>difference, it's just a matter of what one wants as the final output.
>"Matrixing" is the process of resistively mixing the luminance and
>chroma components to obtain different values for the detected chroma,
>again speaking in laymans terms.

Please stop repeating again and again the same stuff ;-)
Nobody is disputing about what is component, RGB, MPEG or whatever.

Kurtis wrote:
"This unit CANNOT output RGB"
I Simply replied:
"AFAIK PAL units can also output RGB from the DVD section"

There's no LD talk involved in this part.

>>> a) I found that my CLD-925
>>[...]
>>>> b) The same machine uses also a CXA 1645M RGB Encoder chip with (unused) RGB
>>>> output pins. Since there are projectors and monitors here being able to make
>>>> use of the RGB signals, would it make sense to route these signals to 3
>>>> seperate output pins (buffered if necessary) to achieve a better picture
>>>> quality??
>>
>>>As for taking out RGB, it again becomes what is better. The Sony Chip or your
>>>monitor. LD is recorded in composite so the objective is to use the unit that
>>>does the best job. RGB out could be OK but I'd guess not worth the return on
>>>the design investment for Pioneer as most won't use it. Those that can afford
>>>RGB projectors usually can afford the Faroudja line
>>>doublers/triplers/quadruplers that are much nicer than this chip. This would be
>>>more of a DIY project for someone that wanted to play as you'd need to design an
>>>output drive circuit for each color and verify there are no time delays.
>>>
>>>Kurtis
>>
>>Here you don't deny the possibility to get RGB... So, have you changed
>>your mind in the meantime?
>

>He said exactly what I've been saying and that he said in today's
>post, that obtaining RGB is a process of DEMODULATING the chroma from
>the composite video, again that's what the TV does.

He replied to a specific question regarding the possibility to use the
CXA 1645M RGB Encoder chip present in that unit (CLD -925).

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

You just don't get it. When I talked about the return on investment for
Pioneer that would be the return of designing a RGB decoder into the player.
You are taking me way out of context and not understanding what I said.

For the OSD, well you have two players here in one box and each has it's own
OSD capability.

You could design a circuit to use the 8-bit digital signal but it is
digitized composite.

THERE IS NO RGB or Y/Cr/Cb (Component) LD PLAYER AVAILABLE.

My discussion here is over as you refuse to even listen to laserdiscservice
who is Pioneer trained on the internals of the players from the beginning.

Kurtis

"NEWman" <koREMOVETHISteANDTHIStsu@libero.it> wrote in message
news:cde4h1dh64uuapgi5dj0ivg81lrneu3kd4@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 16:39:03 -0400, "Kurtis Bahr" <kbahr@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>>The LD signal is FM demodulated to composite analog, then goes to IC500
>>(D-Video Processor) on the CLDM board where it is digitized to an 8-bit
>>composite signal. It is then fed to the MYCB board to IC101 which is a
>>Pioneer design where the TBC/Digital Memory/ DVNR happens and then the
>>8-bit
>>signal is passed to IC301 which is the 3D comb Filter. The Analog Y/C
>>signals from that is fed to IC620 which is a relay that selects to output
>>the LD or DVD signal.
> [..]
>>The DVD signal goes to the DVDM board and the Y/C is sent to the IC620
>>relay
>>on the MYCB board to output the DVD Y/C signal. Or if you have the
>>Component output enable the Y/Cr/Cb signal goes to the MYCB board and
>>immediately loops out to the ACVB board which are the terminal outputs(the
>>LD section has NO path to this output at all).
>
> Ok, I got it. Still I would like to see the schematics myself.
> But what about the CLD 925 then? What does the RGB capable encoder
> present in that machine?
> And how could the add-on board that is sold, be compatible with both
> the 925 and DVL909?
>
>>You are reading more in this than there is, what you are describing is not
>>there!! The LD section does not even have any separate Y/C signals you
>>can
>>tap out in a digital domain, only signal available is the 8-bit parallel
>>composite.
>> The board on top processes the DVD signals and the boards on the
>>bottom process the LD signals and the two shall never meet until output
>>selection and buffering.
>
> But both boards share the On Screen Display, where is this mixed
> into? In the IC101?
>
>>I'd suggest taking the Analog immediately after
>>the FM demodulation, but then again this would be a CLD-S201 and you
>>didn't
>>like that suggestion.
>
> Wouldn't be possible to use the digitized data stream from the CLDM
> board?

 

[newman]

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

I have to beg your pardon: yesterday I've received your 2nd message
but not the first, so I replied to that before the other.
In the first you explained the signal path and denied the mixing of
the LD and DVD part, but I hadn't seen that when I replied to your
2nd.
The fact that you denied the possibility to get RGB from the DAC
killed my interest in that operation.

>You just don't get it. When I talked about the return on investment for
>Pioneer that would be the return of designing a RGB decoder into the player.
>You are taking me way out of context and not understanding what I said.

Mmmh in that message you replied to someone who mentioned a chip and
asked about it.
But anyway doesn't matter.

BTW I kept that old message because I would have liked to ask you to
explain more about the possibility to use THAT chip.

>THERE IS NO RGB or Y/Cr/Cb (Component) LD PLAYER AVAILABLE.

Actually there are at least 2 European models with RGB.
And before you or the others attack me: I perfectly know that they
generate RGB from the composite and the quality is low.

>My discussion here is over as you refuse to even listen to laserdiscservice
>who is Pioneer trained on the internals of the players from the beginning.

What have I done now? I got laserdiscservice message and I read it, he
confirmed your affirmations, I didn't dispute that. I didn't reply to
him.
Do you want me to write this?:

I WAS IN ERROR IN SUPPOSING THAT THE ELABORATION OF THE SIGNAL INSIDE
THE LD UNIT WOULD HAVE BEEN DONE IN DIGITAL COMPONENT FORM.

INFACT THE DIGITIZED SIGNAL HAS BEEN CONFIRMED TO BE A DIGITALISATION
OF THE COMPOSITE SIGNAL TAKEN FROM THE DISC.

I WAS IN ERROR IN SUPPOSING THAT A DAC WITH RGB OUTPUT CAPABILITY
PRESENT IN THE UNIT, BECAUSE OF THE DVD SIDE, WOULD HAVE BEEN USED
ALSO FOR THE LD SIDE.

IT HAS BEEN CONFIRMED THAT LD AND DVD SIDES ARE SEPARATE.

Ok?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 16:54:16 GMT, NEWman
<koREMOVETHISteANDTHIStsu@libero.it> wrote:

>
>I
>I WAS IN ERROR IN SUPPOSING THAT THE ELABORATION OF THE SIGNAL INSIDE
>THE LD UNIT WOULD HAVE BEEN DONE IN DIGITAL COMPONENT FORM.
>
>

What you were asking for is to have a complete colour demodulator in a
laserdisc player. The unit would have to have tint and saturation
controls, and since the sync level for laserdiscs vary there'd have to
be a complete proc amp to accurately match the levels from the DVD
side. And this is in a budget unit (which the DVL909 is) and for the
purpose of providing redundant functionality (The tv does all this.)

.. Steve ..