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sailer
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Have an idea that my opinion will be in the minority view, but after reading through the article, I would put the full weight of charges against Stipe. He was the one who organized the rape and is fully responsible for what happened. Mcdowel seems to be an innocent dupe as far as the actual crime is concerned. Though Mcdowel may have committed the rape, he did it under false pretenses thinking he was only doing as asked and therefore he had full permission and instruction to do as he did. Was Mcdowel stupid? Most certainly. But in a sense, he was set up by and is an innocent victim of Stipe. Many states, and even the Federal government have laws concerning this, that a person who is set up by another person to commit a crime is held innocent of that crime. An example would be when John DeLorean was set up by the Federal government to deal in drugs and the charges ended up being thrown out of court. Its called "entrapment". So while DeLorean was an active participant in the entrapment as far as knowing he was going to commit a crime, McDowel was entrapped into committing a crime without his knowledge or understanding that a crime was being committed. On that basis, I would have to say that McDowel was innocent of committing a crime. Be assured that I'm only going by the article as its written, and there may well be aspects that I don't know about.
For a different take, what if the woman had been able to defend herself and maybe killed Mcdowel, shooting him or something? In the woman's mind, she would simply defending herself against an attempted rapist. In Mcdowel's mind, if he had time to register the thought, he would be wondering what was going on, why was this happening. Then, if it ever was found out and went to court, Stipe would have the full responsibility of sending someone to his death. In such a case, the woman would have the horror of being raped replaced by the horror of killing an "innocent" person. While I can make no judgment of how others may feel, I personally would rather endure a rape than have to live with the fact that I killed an innocent person.
For a different take, what if the woman had been able to defend herself and maybe killed Mcdowel, shooting him or something? In the woman's mind, she would simply defending herself against an attempted rapist. In Mcdowel's mind, if he had time to register the thought, he would be wondering what was going on, why was this happening. Then, if it ever was found out and went to court, Stipe would have the full responsibility of sending someone to his death. In such a case, the woman would have the horror of being raped replaced by the horror of killing an "innocent" person. While I can make no judgment of how others may feel, I personally would rather endure a rape than have to live with the fact that I killed an innocent person.
Sailer, you've got to be intensely naive to think that this mcdowel scumbag didn't know what he was doing. Just because you don't know it's a crime doesn't make it not a crime. Didn't he, for a second, thing the woman's cries and screams were real cries and not acting? Or that the ad wasn't genuine? If not, then any "poor bastard" who answers those bathroom graffiti ads "For a good time, call 555-1212" can push their way into people's apartments "for a good time. "
warezme:
whats next role playing murder..., now I may scream, holler and fight back as you stab me but thats all part of my fantasy.... get real people.
It's been done before. Some sicko german guy posted an ad: Wanted: young fit male for slaughter. A young dude showed up, volunteered to be slaughtered. The guy cut his penis off and ate it before butchering him. German courts convicted him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armin_Meiwes
Lots of sickos out there.
whats next role playing murder..., now I may scream, holler and fight back as you stab me but thats all part of my fantasy.... get real people.
It's been done before. Some sicko german guy posted an ad: Wanted: young fit male for slaughter. A young dude showed up, volunteered to be slaughtered. The guy cut his penis off and ate it before butchering him. German courts convicted him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armin_Meiwes
Lots of sickos out there.
reasonablevoice
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To the guy arguing that McDowel should not be charged because he was coerced does not understand that its only entrapment if the authorities do it. That is the whole point of entrapment, that the authorities themselves can't coerce you to commit a crime so they can arrest you for it.
sailer
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Not naive, JWL3, but looking at things from a legal aspect. I don't question that McDowel is a scumbag and has a sick mind, but to his mind, he may have only been acting through a "part" and the woman was acting her "part".
As for the graffiti adds, Mcdowel apparently had contact with who he thought was the woman, so he thought that she was only doing what was previously arranged, not just breaking in to an apartment for a "good time". He didn't know that he was being set up by Stipe, so he didn't know that the screams were real.
As for the graffiti adds, Mcdowel apparently had contact with who he thought was the woman, so he thought that she was only doing what was previously arranged, not just breaking in to an apartment for a "good time". He didn't know that he was being set up by Stipe, so he didn't know that the screams were real.
Pailin
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We all love freedom of speach and expression.
Craigslist is something that recieves god knows how many postings a day! To verify Every single one would take a Vast team of people and cost an Absolute Fortune!!!
If we as people do not employ some common sense we will loose all our public avenues of expression and communication with each other 🙁
For example, you cannot get a Hot coffee anymore in most places because McD's got sued by some greedy fool who sued them for being burned by a hot coffee --- now we, all over the world, all have to put up with luke warm coffee's because of one greedy idiot >_<
You all want your world wide public contact with each other to be a luke warm and "dummed down" experience by those "policy makers" who control your lives???
Then be careful what you wish for!
People all over the world are kinky and that isn't going to change...
McDowel did try and check out the story before fullfilling someones fantasy, he was excited and thought she was too.
Not everyone has a webcam yet...
And yeah, he should have checked better, at least called her rather than just texted her to make sure it was at Least a female voice on the other end...!?!?
But he Did try and check - he obviously didn't want to Fck up in such a situation. (still don't get why he didn't phone her so he could recognise her voice at the very least)
I truely feel for the poor girl in all this!
I also have to say I hope McDowel gets leniently charged, he did at least make some effort to check. (you would be surprised how many people out there would seriously dig this kinda a thing - have met a few, though is not for me :s )
Peace
(and a little common sense maybe 😉 )
Craigslist is something that recieves god knows how many postings a day! To verify Every single one would take a Vast team of people and cost an Absolute Fortune!!!
If we as people do not employ some common sense we will loose all our public avenues of expression and communication with each other 🙁
For example, you cannot get a Hot coffee anymore in most places because McD's got sued by some greedy fool who sued them for being burned by a hot coffee --- now we, all over the world, all have to put up with luke warm coffee's because of one greedy idiot >_<
You all want your world wide public contact with each other to be a luke warm and "dummed down" experience by those "policy makers" who control your lives???
Then be careful what you wish for!
People all over the world are kinky and that isn't going to change...
McDowel did try and check out the story before fullfilling someones fantasy, he was excited and thought she was too.
Not everyone has a webcam yet...
And yeah, he should have checked better, at least called her rather than just texted her to make sure it was at Least a female voice on the other end...!?!?
But he Did try and check - he obviously didn't want to Fck up in such a situation. (still don't get why he didn't phone her so he could recognise her voice at the very least)
I truely feel for the poor girl in all this!
I also have to say I hope McDowel gets leniently charged, he did at least make some effort to check. (you would be surprised how many people out there would seriously dig this kinda a thing - have met a few, though is not for me :s )
Peace
(and a little common sense maybe 😉 )
[citation][nom]leafman420[/nom]WOW!!! I have had some bad girlfriends, but I have to wounder what the hell she did to him that made him do this...[/citation] It is possible you are the sickest one of the bunch yourself. You are either blaming the victim or making a very sick joke - both of which are disgusting. Truly the scum of the earth.
bobbox1980
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@ Renegade_Warrior
No offense but you do not know what you are talking about. Craigslist is protected by Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act. Craigslist is not liable for the messages posted on the site by its users because of this law.
Craigslist made changes to its site at the request of the state AGs because they did not want to have a court battle and throw money out the window on lawyers. Craigslist would have won if the AGs decided to file charges. The AG who led the charge against Craigslist was Dick Blumenthal of CT. He is now running for the U.S. Senate. Him going after Craiglist was nothing more than a PR stunt to get his name in the paper.
No offense but you do not know what you are talking about. Craigslist is protected by Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act. Craigslist is not liable for the messages posted on the site by its users because of this law.
Craigslist made changes to its site at the request of the state AGs because they did not want to have a court battle and throw money out the window on lawyers. Craigslist would have won if the AGs decided to file charges. The AG who led the charge against Craigslist was Dick Blumenthal of CT. He is now running for the U.S. Senate. Him going after Craiglist was nothing more than a PR stunt to get his name in the paper.
belardo
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It has nothing to do with Craigslist as it could happen on ANY social site / forum / chat room.
Thing is, there are SOME women who do want/ask guys to do such things (most likely some guys too). Before the Internet, I remember talking to a 19yr old girl online as she has such fantasies and I told her to STOP giving out her phone number as the real thing may not be so fun.
Also, a creep has signed on to an ex of mine, pretending to be her and IMing with others about sexual things. Hell, I've done that to a women at work (in front of her) since she was in a sex-chat room with 2-3 guys doing cyber-sex. I typed in something like "I'm really a man and I'm so hard" and hit return before she could stop me. She didn't do that again. Boy was that funny.
Whose at fault / gets the blame:
Stipe (ex BF) #1 = 75% : He set this up. He pretended to be the play-victim.
McDowell #2 = 10% : Might have done this before, who knows. But *he* should have confirmed who he was dealing with. There should have been a safe word / code (I'm guessing) to prove who he is about to consensually assault. A voice communication to prove its a female but then again, a woman can/would do this to another woman.
A simple code would be "put an X in your window, leave door unlocked" at xx:00 "and I will look for that, can I may choose my own time" kind of like X-Files. Note: I am making this rule up on the fly.
This proves that the rapist should have put more thought into this or he KNEW he was raping a real victim.
We don't have all facts about this case, court records. Once this goes to trial, it would be fairly easy to see what evidence is brought in and what was actually discussed between the two men.
Rape Victim #4 = 1%: Barely that. She didn't think it would actually happen - but she felt in danger enough to call the police and report the posting. She should have posted up on Criaglist that such a post was false and the police have been contacted. A regular sex-CL visitor (such as McDowell) most likely would have seen the new posting. As an after thought - if these happens again, girls who know about such postings should have a pre-printed sign made up in case someone attempts this. How did the victim know about the Craigslist posting?
The Police #3 = 14% : Why? She reported this to the Police. They should have taken this very seriously. We don't know the time frame between when she reported to the Police and her assault. But *if* I was the police, I would have made contact with the EX-BF ASAP (ie: within hours), see what charges could be brought up and have the EX-BF cancel the ordered rape. Then tell the girl to not be at home until confirmed. Tell the would-be rapist that it was a hoax and that at this time, no crime has been committed on their part, yet.
Her possible fault is that if she told this to regular uniform Police Officer, that might not amount to much compared to going to the Police station and talking to a detective.
* Such things like this has happened before. Someone posted "Come to my house and take whatever you want, here is my address" - the real owner couldn't get the "thieves" to understand that HE never made such a post. And those thieves were jerks assuming that it was legit.
* There are some strange people out there who have kinky & dangerous sex habits...
Thing is, there are SOME women who do want/ask guys to do such things (most likely some guys too). Before the Internet, I remember talking to a 19yr old girl online as she has such fantasies and I told her to STOP giving out her phone number as the real thing may not be so fun.
Also, a creep has signed on to an ex of mine, pretending to be her and IMing with others about sexual things. Hell, I've done that to a women at work (in front of her) since she was in a sex-chat room with 2-3 guys doing cyber-sex. I typed in something like "I'm really a man and I'm so hard" and hit return before she could stop me. She didn't do that again. Boy was that funny.
Whose at fault / gets the blame:
Stipe (ex BF) #1 = 75% : He set this up. He pretended to be the play-victim.
McDowell #2 = 10% : Might have done this before, who knows. But *he* should have confirmed who he was dealing with. There should have been a safe word / code (I'm guessing) to prove who he is about to consensually assault. A voice communication to prove its a female but then again, a woman can/would do this to another woman.
A simple code would be "put an X in your window, leave door unlocked" at xx:00 "and I will look for that, can I may choose my own time" kind of like X-Files. Note: I am making this rule up on the fly.
This proves that the rapist should have put more thought into this or he KNEW he was raping a real victim.
We don't have all facts about this case, court records. Once this goes to trial, it would be fairly easy to see what evidence is brought in and what was actually discussed between the two men.
Rape Victim #4 = 1%: Barely that. She didn't think it would actually happen - but she felt in danger enough to call the police and report the posting. She should have posted up on Criaglist that such a post was false and the police have been contacted. A regular sex-CL visitor (such as McDowell) most likely would have seen the new posting. As an after thought - if these happens again, girls who know about such postings should have a pre-printed sign made up in case someone attempts this. How did the victim know about the Craigslist posting?
The Police #3 = 14% : Why? She reported this to the Police. They should have taken this very seriously. We don't know the time frame between when she reported to the Police and her assault. But *if* I was the police, I would have made contact with the EX-BF ASAP (ie: within hours), see what charges could be brought up and have the EX-BF cancel the ordered rape. Then tell the girl to not be at home until confirmed. Tell the would-be rapist that it was a hoax and that at this time, no crime has been committed on their part, yet.
Her possible fault is that if she told this to regular uniform Police Officer, that might not amount to much compared to going to the Police station and talking to a detective.
* Such things like this has happened before. Someone posted "Come to my house and take whatever you want, here is my address" - the real owner couldn't get the "thieves" to understand that HE never made such a post. And those thieves were jerks assuming that it was legit.
* There are some strange people out there who have kinky & dangerous sex habits...
belardo
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* previous post. I have some typos. Corrections:
"A creep sign on as an EX of mine~" & I've typed in a text window of only one woman who was cybersexing at work.
[citation][nom]TeraMedia[/nom]There's a simple saying: "'No' means no." Once that is said, anything you do afterwards can be considered sexual assault. People who play-act like S&M have "safety words", don't they? McDowell just didn't care. [/citation]
I'd say McDowell is more stupid... but we don't KNOW all the facts. If he was just acting out a fantasy for kinks, or if he has a rape record... we don't know.
There are quite a large number of women who like to be hurt. I'm not really into it and something as what happened in this story is beyond my abilities. A girl I dated from a long time ago wanted me to HURT her, I did for a bit and stopped even thou she wanted a lot more. She later thanked me for not going to such a level.
Some people play very very rough. And even others, hard-core serious.
"A creep sign on as an EX of mine~" & I've typed in a text window of only one woman who was cybersexing at work.
[citation][nom]TeraMedia[/nom]There's a simple saying: "'No' means no." Once that is said, anything you do afterwards can be considered sexual assault. People who play-act like S&M have "safety words", don't they? McDowell just didn't care. [/citation]
I'd say McDowell is more stupid... but we don't KNOW all the facts. If he was just acting out a fantasy for kinks, or if he has a rape record... we don't know.
There are quite a large number of women who like to be hurt. I'm not really into it and something as what happened in this story is beyond my abilities. A girl I dated from a long time ago wanted me to HURT her, I did for a bit and stopped even thou she wanted a lot more. She later thanked me for not going to such a level.
Some people play very very rough. And even others, hard-core serious.
Pailin
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maybe "they" had arranged a safety word
We have too little info to say this or that is so, other than McDowell should have at Least heard the lady's voice so when he arrived he could be sure it was even the correct woman he was "playing" with and not her sister, mother or daughter!
At the end of the day he Fck'd up, and made himself into another victim of this sad story.
We have too little info to say this or that is so, other than McDowell should have at Least heard the lady's voice so when he arrived he could be sure it was even the correct woman he was "playing" with and not her sister, mother or daughter!
At the end of the day he Fck'd up, and made himself into another victim of this sad story.
ethanolson
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The perp is always the guiltiest unless he's doing acts that he doesn't think he's doing (like being told a red button feeds the mouse, but it actually cuts off people's hands).
My mom posted something for sale yesterday and they required her to fill in a code they gave her over the telephone through an automated message. At least with that you can trace it back to a phone number which is could so people know they can be tracked if their doing something illegal. It would likely keep nuts from doing this kind of thing.
Gin Fushicho
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belardo
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[citation][nom]Pailin[/nom]yeah LOLthough not always funny for some...years back one of our members of parliament in the UK suffered "Death by miss-adventure" through playing with auto-asphyxiation (self suffocation) while tying himself up[/citation]
Yeah, like a certain well known Actor last year. Perhaps one of the last things going through his mind "Thousands of people will know I'm perverted..." 🙁 Its his business, but its not a way to die. But a lot of guys have died that way. Or how about the German guy who had an odd-shaped pipe on his privates and spent 2-3 days trying to get it off. By then it was too late and he lost everything down there. Why? Because it "feels great" when the blood flows back in.
There is more sex variance than missionary and doggy style.
Yeah, like a certain well known Actor last year. Perhaps one of the last things going through his mind "Thousands of people will know I'm perverted..." 🙁 Its his business, but its not a way to die. But a lot of guys have died that way. Or how about the German guy who had an odd-shaped pipe on his privates and spent 2-3 days trying to get it off. By then it was too late and he lost everything down there. Why? Because it "feels great" when the blood flows back in.
There is more sex variance than missionary and doggy style.
belardo
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[citation][nom]jman7[/nom]~~required her to fill in a code they gave her over the telephone through an automated message. ~~~ It would likely keep nuts from doing this kind of thing.[/citation]
So you're saying what is needed is a national call-center for rape-fantasies? We're people can order schedule safe and controlled rapes? Hmmm, interesting idea, not sure how you can make money at it since it maybe considered prostitution.
So you're saying what is needed is a national call-center for rape-fantasies? We're people can order schedule safe and controlled rapes? Hmmm, interesting idea, not sure how you can make money at it since it maybe considered prostitution.
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