Finicky DVDs

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

I've recently started watching DVDs for the first time. Before getting
into this field, friends and family with some experience warned me that
DVDs are a nightmare, in that they are grossly unreliable and all
develop skips and glitches after a very small number of plays. Some
come that way straight out of the box.

I was worried, but I figured my superior ability to not touch or scratch
stuff (I'm a vinylphile, after all) would help me out in this respect.

Well, sure enough, it is starting to happen. Fairly new DVDs, which
once played perfectly, are now developing skips and glitches worthy of
the vinyl era. They have never been touched, and have nothing visible
on the playing surface besides a few dust motes.

Is there something I can do to help this problem? How should I clean
DVDs? How should I *not* clean DVDs? Any helpful info appreciated.

One friend suggesting using a DVD burner to make a backup of any newly
purchased DVD. If this is seriously required to have pristine DVDs, I
think we should all just forget it and go back to RCA's analog
"laserdisks". (remember those?)

-Sean

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

In article <c5fnsm027ik@news4.newsguy.com>,
Sean Fulop <sfulop@uchicago.edu> writes:
> I've recently started watching DVDs for the first time. Before getting
> into this field, friends and family with some experience warned me that
> DVDs are a nightmare, in that they are grossly unreliable and all
> develop skips and glitches after a very small number of plays. Some
> come that way straight out of the box.

I own about 200 DVDs, and out of the box I've had only 3 that had any
problems at all. Each had one place where they would skip badly. Each
was exchanged and the replcements in each case were flawless.

> I was worried, but I figured my superior ability to not touch or scratch
> stuff (I'm a vinylphile, after all) would help me out in this respect.
>
> Well, sure enough, it is starting to happen. Fairly new DVDs, which
> once played perfectly, are now developing skips and glitches worthy of
> the vinyl era. They have never been touched, and have nothing visible
> on the playing surface besides a few dust motes.

Only DVDs with very noticeable scratches have problems playing for me
in either of my standalone players or either of my DVD-ROM drives.
Have you tried them in another DVD player?

> Is there something I can do to help this problem? How should I clean
> DVDs? How should I *not* clean DVDs? Any helpful info appreciated.

It's had to imagine that high of a failure rate, and in any case I've
never seem that type of problem. even with my 6+ year old player I
bought at the dawn of the DVD era.

It has to be a poor or defective player. Quite a few friends have DVD
collections too and none of them report any problems such as you
describe. The exception is with rented DVDs since too few people who
rent treat DVDs correctly. I rarely rent myself for this reason.

> One friend suggesting using a DVD burner to make a backup of any newly
> purchased DVD. If this is seriously required to have pristine DVDs, I
> think we should all just forget it and go back to RCA's analog
> "laserdisks". (remember those?)

Yeah, I have about 120 of them laying around too. Almost every DVD I
have is superior to even the best laserdiscs I have. The only ones I
watch are titles that have yet to make it to DVD.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

Sean Fulop <sfulop@uchicago.edu> wrote:
> I've recently started watching DVDs for the first time. Before getting
> into this field, friends and family with some experience warned me that
> DVDs are a nightmare, in that they are grossly unreliable and all
> develop skips and glitches after a very small number of plays. Some
> come that way straight out of the box.

Out of hundreds of DVDs I've watched, most of which were rented, I've had only
a few that had glitches, and most of those were due to fingerprints
or debris that was easily cleaned. Once cleaned (plain water,
or mild detergent and water rinse) , such discs played
perfectly.

One disc I bought, the "House of Blues' Yes video, developed 'DVD
rot' due to poor manufacture. This was noted by the mfr, who
provided mail-in replacements for the disc.

--

-S.

"They've got God on their side. All we've got is science and reason."
-- Dawn Hulsey, Talent Director

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

WOWIE! bizarre, just think about it! How could outfits like Blockbuster and
Netflix be thriving by renting DVDs? How long would there be any customers
for either new or rental DVDs (which have been man and woman handled)? My
family must have seen thousands of DVDs using more than a dozen different
players. I have 4 DVD players (ignoring the one in my computer). The entire
world including babies in cribs are viewing millions of DVDs in homes,
autos, airplanes, laptops and under the kitchen sink. None of this is true.
I had one rental DVD that stopped short. That's the only problem I ever
encountered.

"Sean Fulop" <sfulop@uchicago.edu> wrote in message
news:c5fnsm027ik@news4.newsguy.com...
> I've recently started watching DVDs for the first time. Before getting
> into this field, friends and family with some experience warned me that
> DVDs are a nightmare, in that they are grossly unreliable and all
> develop skips and glitches after a very small number of plays. Some
> come that way straight out of the box.
>
> I was worried, but I figured my superior ability to not touch or scratch
> stuff (I'm a vinylphile, after all) would help me out in this respect.
>
> Well, sure enough, it is starting to happen. Fairly new DVDs, which
> once played perfectly, are now developing skips and glitches worthy of
> the vinyl era. They have never been touched, and have nothing visible
> on the playing surface besides a few dust motes.
>
> Is there something I can do to help this problem? How should I clean
> DVDs? How should I *not* clean DVDs? Any helpful info appreciated.
>

 

[KeithW]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

S,
Assuming your handling your DVD properly (as a vinylphile knows), try
cleaning your DVD player if you've had it awhile. Mine would play DVD's
alright but choked on VCD's. I used the metal eyelash type of cleaner and it
worked like a champ.

- Thank God we don't get the government we pay for. keithw...

"Sean Fulop" <sfulop@uchicago.edu> wrote in message
news:c5fnsm027ik@news4.newsguy.com...
> Is there something I can do to help this problem? How should I clean
> DVDs? How should I *not* clean DVDs? Any helpful info appreciated.
>
> One friend suggesting using a DVD burner to make a backup of any newly
> purchased DVD. If this is seriously required to have pristine DVDs, I
> think we should all just forget it and go back to RCA's analog
> "laserdisks". (remember those?)
>
> -Sean

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

"Steven Sullivan" <ssully@panix.com> wrote in message
news:c5gveb01hr9@news2.newsguy.com...
> Sean Fulop <sfulop@uchicago.edu> wrote:
> > I've recently started watching DVDs for the first time. Before getting
> > into this field, friends and family with some experience warned me that
> > DVDs are a nightmare, in that they are grossly unreliable and all
> > develop skips and glitches after a very small number of plays. Some
> > come that way straight out of the box.
>
> Out of hundreds of DVDs I've watched, most of which were rented, I've had
only
> a few that had glitches, and most of those were due to fingerprints
> or debris that was easily cleaned. Once cleaned (plain water,
> or mild detergent and water rinse) , such discs played
> perfectly.
>
> One disc I bought, the "House of Blues' Yes video, developed 'DVD
> rot' due to poor manufacture. This was noted by the mfr, who
> provided mail-in replacements for the disc.
>
The shop I rent DVDs from routinely wipes them clean using Windex before
letting you out of the store. They have been doing this for over a year, so
I suppose it works and causes no damage. DVDs are enjoying the same
world-wide success as any other optical disc.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

Norman Schwartz <nmsz1@att.net> wrote:
> "Steven Sullivan" <ssully@panix.com> wrote in message
> news:c5gveb01hr9@news2.newsguy.com...
> > Sean Fulop <sfulop@uchicago.edu> wrote:
> > > I've recently started watching DVDs for the first time. Before getting
> > > into this field, friends and family with some experience warned me that
> > > DVDs are a nightmare, in that they are grossly unreliable and all
> > > develop skips and glitches after a very small number of plays. Some
> > > come that way straight out of the box.
> >
> > Out of hundreds of DVDs I've watched, most of which were rented, I've had
> only
> > a few that had glitches, and most of those were due to fingerprints
> > or debris that was easily cleaned. Once cleaned (plain water,
> > or mild detergent and water rinse) , such discs played
> > perfectly.
> >
> > One disc I bought, the "House of Blues' Yes video, developed 'DVD
> > rot' due to poor manufacture. This was noted by the mfr, who
> > provided mail-in replacements for the disc.
> >
> The shop I rent DVDs from routinely wipes them clean using Windex before
> letting you out of the store. They have been doing this for over a year, so
> I suppose it works and causes no damage. DVDs are enjoying the same
> world-wide success as any other optical disc.

I've used Windex too. I just keep it away from the label side, to be
safe.

--

-S.

"They've got God on their side. All we've got is science and reason."
-- Dawn Hulsey, Talent Director

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

> WOWIE! bizarre, just think about it! How could outfits like Blockbuster and
> Netflix be thriving by renting DVDs? How long would there be any customers
> for either new or rental DVDs (which have been man and woman handled)?

You are missing the point, and are trying to put stupid words in my
mouth. You are drawing the unfounded conclusion that people won't put
up with technology that has glitches. Of course the DVDs play through,
so people are willing to watch them with the occasional glitch. VHS
tapes have glitches, too, especially rentals. So far I've rented 3 or 4
DVD movies, and all have skipped and glitched at some points after
meticulous cleaning (lord knows how they would have played had I not
cleaned them). I put up with it, and will continue to do so. I'm
willing to rent and watch movies at home that have glitches, and so are
most people. The tapes we can rent are, at their best, far worse. That
explains why customers keep coming back for more glitches.

What I don't want are my brand new music concert DVDs to develop
"mystery glitches" when they are in visually perfect condition, and this
is the phenomenon I'm observing. They are so finicky, that when I catch
a skip, and rewind to see if it will do it again at the same place, it
won't skip there the next time through. Yet absolutely brand new DVDs
straight out of the box don't do this. Friends and family report
similar results, with anyone I've asked reporting that they own
precisely zero DVDs that play through with no glitches after a few times
in the player. This performance doesn't keep these folks from buying
more DVDs (most of them are just watching movies, they're not watching
important audio content material) which you for some reason assume it
would. I had assumed this was because they mishandled their DVDs. I
now see that the problem is more subtle than that, since I have not
mishandled mine.

Perhaps you folks with no problems have bought more expensive DVD
players, I don't know. Mine is a Sony valued at $600, so I thought that
would be good enough. My thanks to those people with honestly helpful
answers. Those who would prefer to ridicule me and my associates and
denigrate my anecdotal observations are encouraged to not reply.

-Sean

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

I've had problems with rentals, which, when I removed them from the player, had
pink or orange goopy stuff dried to them. So...I'll never rent another DVD, I
said.

Then I bought the first season of Queer as Folk. It played through perfectly
the first time. The second time I watched it, however, I started getting that
square box pattern above an otherwise frozen picture, while the audio played
on.

Sometimes it happened again in the same scenes, sometimes not. The discs looked
perfect.

There are two other factors: the player makes a distinctive -- not loud, but
definitely audible -- whooshing sound when it plays DVDs; also, it apparently
outgasses something as it plays -- not something I can smell. But I always have
a headache after about two hours of playing DVDs.

I've already returned it. They even let me keep the first one, which is nice,
because CDs sound nice, and I bought it to use as a CD player, so now I have
two CD players.

I'm too cheap to buy a new player, given how little I actually use it for
playing DVDs, but I might try one of the cheap Sonys that play SACDs.

I wonder if anyone else has had the audibility and outgassing problems with
their DVD player.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

In article <c5ifrd09db@news2.newsguy.com>,
Sean Fulop <sfulop@uchicago.edu> writes:
>
> Perhaps you folks with no problems have bought more expensive DVD
> players, I don't know. Mine is a Sony valued at $600, so I thought that
> would be good enough.

As I mentioned previously, I use 2 different DVD players. One is a 6
year old Toshiba I paid $500 for back when there were only about 5
different players that existed in 1997 which was the year DVDs were
first released. It has played the same DVDs many, many times over and
over again with no skips or problems whatever. My other player is a
$600 Sony 300 DVD changer I've had for about 3 years and it plays
every one of the 150 DVDs stored in it perfectly too. Many have been
watched 10s of times and never a glitch - ever. And none of my many
friends that have DVD players and own DVDs have ever mentioned any
problems like you report with the exception of rented DVDs or the
rare defective DVDs which had problems on the first play.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

Sean Fulop <sfulop@uchicago.edu> wrote:
> > WOWIE! bizarre, just think about it! How could outfits like Blockbuster and
> > Netflix be thriving by renting DVDs? How long would there be any customers
> > for either new or rental DVDs (which have been man and woman handled)?

> You are missing the point, and are trying to put stupid words in my
> mouth. You are drawing the unfounded conclusion that people won't put
> up with technology that has glitches. Of course the DVDs play through,
> so people are willing to watch them with the occasional glitch. VHS
> tapes have glitches, too, especially rentals. So far I've rented 3 or 4
> DVD movies, and all have skipped and glitched at some points after
> meticulous cleaning (lord knows how they would have played had I not
> cleaned them).

Then either you have had extraordinarily bad luck,
or the discs where you live tend to be far more damaged than the ones
at all of my local video stores, or your player is defective.

Btw, I hope you aren't confusing the slight pause that one often sees
during a layer change, with a 'glitch' or a 'skip'.

--

-S.

"They've got God on their side. All we've got is science and reason."
-- Dawn Hulsey, Talent Director

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

"Sean Fulop" <sfulop@uchicago.edu> wrote in message
news:c5ifrd09db@news2.newsguy.com...
> > WOWIE! bizarre, just think about it! How could outfits like Blockbuster
and
> > Netflix be thriving by renting DVDs? How long would there be any
customers
> > for either new or rental DVDs (which have been man and woman handled)?
>
> You are missing the point, and are trying to put stupid words in my
> mouth.

If I didn't know better, I would have concluded you were simply "trolling".

> Perhaps you folks with no problems have bought more expensive DVD
> players, I don't know. Mine is a Sony valued at $600, so I thought that
> would be good enough.

Mine are far less costly, garden variety Pioneers, Sonys, and a Toshiba, all
less costly than $600 even though some were bought at the high prices during
DVD's infancy. The only "glitch" that I ever have seen is the slight pause
which occurs during a layer switch in those DVDs having them. Could this
possibly be what your friends and family have reported to be glitches?
I do most of my viewing on a 61" Sony Projection and before that on a
Pioneer 55" Elite, sit fairly close to the set, and see no, "ZERO" glitches.
Being somewhat of a "nutcase" perfectionist, I would have dumped this
technology long ago. I don't think you can be helped, and are almost a
minority of one, even if had been your rare misfortune to have acquired some
manufacturer's defects, you are in definite need of an exorcism.

 

[chung]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

Sean Fulop wrote:
>> WOWIE! bizarre, just think about it! How could outfits like Blockbuster and
>> Netflix be thriving by renting DVDs? How long would there be any customers
>> for either new or rental DVDs (which have been man and woman handled)?
>
> You are missing the point, and are trying to put stupid words in my
> mouth. You are drawing the unfounded conclusion that people won't put
> up with technology that has glitches. Of course the DVDs play through,
> so people are willing to watch them with the occasional glitch. VHS
> tapes have glitches, too, especially rentals. So far I've rented 3 or 4
> DVD movies, and all have skipped and glitched at some points after
> meticulous cleaning (lord knows how they would have played had I not
> cleaned them). I put up with it, and will continue to do so. I'm
> willing to rent and watch movies at home that have glitches, and so are
> most people. The tapes we can rent are, at their best, far worse. That
> explains why customers keep coming back for more glitches.
>
> What I don't want are my brand new music concert DVDs to develop
> "mystery glitches" when they are in visually perfect condition, and this
> is the phenomenon I'm observing. They are so finicky, that when I catch
> a skip, and rewind to see if it will do it again at the same place, it
> won't skip there the next time through. Yet absolutely brand new DVDs
> straight out of the box don't do this. Friends and family report
> similar results, with anyone I've asked reporting that they own
> precisely zero DVDs that play through with no glitches after a few times
> in the player. This performance doesn't keep these folks from buying
> more DVDs (most of them are just watching movies, they're not watching
> important audio content material) which you for some reason assume it
> would. I had assumed this was because they mishandled their DVDs. I
> now see that the problem is more subtle than that, since I have not
> mishandled mine.
>
> Perhaps you folks with no problems have bought more expensive DVD
> players, I don't know. Mine is a Sony valued at $600, so I thought that
> would be good enough. My thanks to those people with honestly helpful
> answers. Those who would prefer to ridicule me and my associates and
> denigrate my anecdotal observations are encouraged to not reply.
>
> -Sean

Is it possible that what you called "glitches" are simply layer changes?
In a lot of players, layer changes are noticeable, and could appear as a
one-second (or more) skip/freeze.

I have owned and watched many DVD's (several hundred at least). The ones
that have problem playing are either dirty or scratched. I also own a
cheap ($30) Apex player that died (skipping and freezing) after about 6
months due to a capacitor that was not rated for the voltage. I replaced
that capacitor, and it has been working reliably ever since.

Overall, the reliability of DVD's is at least 100 times better than that
of vinyl, IMO.

 

[ban]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

Sean Fulop wrote:
>
>
> What I don't want are my brand new music concert DVDs to develop
> "mystery glitches" when they are in visually perfect condition, and
> this is the phenomenon I'm observing. They are so finicky, that when
> I catch a skip, and rewind to see if it will do it again at the same
> place, it won't skip there the next time through. Yet absolutely
> brand new DVDs straight out of the box don't do this. Friends and
> family report similar results, with anyone I've asked reporting that
> they own precisely zero DVDs that play through with no glitches after
> a few times in the player. This performance doesn't keep these folks
> from buying more DVDs (most of them are just watching movies, they're
> not watching important audio content material) which you for some
> reason assume it would. I had assumed this was because they
> mishandled their DVDs. I now see that the problem is more subtle
> than that, since I have not mishandled mine.
>
> Perhaps you folks with no problems have bought more expensive DVD
> players, I don't know. Mine is a Sony valued at $600, so I thought
> that would be good enough. My thanks to those people with honestly
> helpful answers. Those who would prefer to ridicule me and my
> associates and denigrate my anecdotal observations are encouraged to
> not reply.
>
> -Sean

I have an old Pioneer DV535 for many years now and it really freezes on each
DVD only once for a moment, when the layer is changed. But the
CD-performance has degraded much more. it takes more time to recognize the
CDs and sometimes rejects them by opening the tray. I assume there are
different pickups for CD and DVD play.
It seems your problem is player related. If you screw open the hood and
clean the laser lens carefully like a tape-head not using any chemicals tho,
it might regain the initial sensitivity. A bad thing are nicotin and tar
residuents from smokers, are you doing this? In this case better buy a new
player.
And do not be so picky with peoples replies, insulting replies are filtered
and David usually does an adaequate job, he even answered himself!
--
ciao Ban
Bordighera, Italy

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

"Ban" <bansuri@web.de> wrote in message
news:UXefc.143864$JO3.85362@attbi_s04...
>
> I have an old Pioneer DV535 for many years now and it really freezes on
each
> DVD only once for a moment, when the layer is changed. But the
> CD-performance has degraded much more. it takes more time to recognize the
> CDs and sometimes rejects them by opening the tray. I assume there are
> different pickups for CD and DVD play.
> It seems your problem is player related. If you screw open the hood and
> clean the laser lens carefully like a tape-head not using any chemicals
tho,
> it might regain the initial sensitivity. A bad thing are nicotin and tar
> residuents from smokers, are you doing this? In this case better buy a new
> player.
> And do not be so picky with peoples replies, insulting replies are
filtered
> and David usually does an adaequate job, he even answered himself!
> --

While you are at the open hood it may be worthwhile to clean the rails which
the lens carrier traverses. It works for me on a very old CD player which
skips on some (harder to read ?) CDs.
DVDs will show the same performance characteristics as do CDs or the
billions (?) of CD-R copies made from them, all "glitch free" (assuming your
players is in good shape), here is a good one for less than $50, and even
less with the rebates.
http/www.radioshack.com/product.asp?cookie%5Ftest=1&catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=16-3274

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

Thanks for all the helpful info everyone.

My player is brand new, and so I would think it was not defective, but
it was sold as a "floor display" model for cheap, so you never know.

The information about the pause during layer changing is helpful, I was
unaware of this, and this does account for some of the things I've
noticed on rentals. It was probably at these points in the rentals that
my wife, suspicious from the beginning, jumped up and said "ha, see,
that's what my cousins were talking about, they all skip!"

The skipping I'm talking about is unrelated to this, however, it
usually appears as a literal jumping forward through the content by a
second or two, reminiscent of a forward groove skip on a record (the
good old days). Most of my DVDs that have been played a few times will
do this at least once during the playback. Frequently, if you catch
this and rewind, it will not skip there the second time through. This
annoying behavior, while it vindicates my pessimistic friends' reports,
is for the moment insufficient for me to try to take my brand new player
to a shop for servicing or warrantee work, as no one is going to watch a
two hour DVD waiting for it to skip to verify my claims. Perhaps an
exorcism is indeed in the offing.

-Sean

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

My "outgas" problems are most obvious during Terrence and Philip segments of
South Park. ;>)
"Farrell8882" <farrell8882@aol.com> wrote in message
news:uR3fc.32907$xn4.82703@attbi_s51...
> I've had problems with rentals, which, when I removed them from the
player, had
> pink or orange goopy stuff dried to them. So...I'll never rent another
DVD, I
> said.
>
> Then I bought the first season of Queer as Folk. It played through
perfectly
> the first time. The second time I watched it, however, I started getting
that
> square box pattern above an otherwise frozen picture, while the audio
played
> on.
>
> Sometimes it happened again in the same scenes, sometimes not. The discs
looked
> perfect.
>
> There are two other factors: the player makes a distinctive -- not loud,
but
> definitely audible -- whooshing sound when it plays DVDs; also, it
apparently
> outgasses something as it plays -- not something I can smell. But I always
have
> a headache after about two hours of playing DVDs.
>
> I've already returned it. They even let me keep the first one, which is
nice,
> because CDs sound nice, and I bought it to use as a CD player, so now I
have
> two CD players.
>
> I'm too cheap to buy a new player, given how little I actually use it for
> playing DVDs, but I might try one of the cheap Sonys that play SACDs.
>
> I wonder if anyone else has had the audibility and outgassing problems
with
> their DVD player.
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

Sean Fulop <sfulop@uchicago.edu> wrote:
> The information about the pause during layer changing is helpful, I was
> unaware of this, and this does account for some of the things I've
> noticed on rentals. It was probably at these points in the rentals that
> my wife, suspicious from the beginning, jumped up and said "ha, see,
> that's what my cousins were talking about, they all skip!"

Some manufacturers have begun implementing buffering in their DVD player
to eliminate the pause associate with a layer change. Denon comes to
mind.

> The skipping I'm talking about is unrelated to this, however, it
> usually appears as a literal jumping forward through the content by a
> second or two, reminiscent of a forward groove skip on a record (the
> good old days). Most of my DVDs that have been played a few times will
> do this at least once during the playback. Frequently, if you catch
> this and rewind, it will not skip there the second time through. This
> annoying behavior, while it vindicates my pessimistic friends' reports,
> is for the moment insufficient for me to try to take my brand new player
> to a shop for servicing or warrantee work, as no one is going to watch a
> two hour DVD waiting for it to skip to verify my claims. Perhaps an
> exorcism is indeed in the offing.

DVD players do seem to very in their sensitivity. With my previous DVD
player (a Toshiba SD-something) I would clean all Netflix rentals prior
to viewing--otherwise, I would be guaranteed one to four skips per
movie.

--
Jason Kau
bubbafat@SPAMspeakeasy.net IS FOR EMAIL
jkau@vulture.cnd.gatech.edu IS FOR SPAM
http/www.cnd.gatech.edu/~jkau