Follow up to hard drive problem

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Spoke to DNNA today and they agreed that the disk was toast. As the
machine had just hit one year from activation date they extended the $35
flat rate repair. With shipping to them included it's still cheaper
than a new drive and they'll look over the whole thing while it's there.
Before I even asked, Tech Support was quick to mention that I would
receive my actual 50xx unit back and that I didn't have to worry about
getting a 55xx machine!
 
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BruceR wrote:
> Spoke to DNNA today and they agreed that the disk was toast. As the
> machine had just hit one year from activation date they extended the $35
> flat rate repair. With shipping to them included it's still cheaper
> than a new drive and



> they'll look over the whole thing while it's there.

Yeah, right.

> Before I even asked, Tech Support was quick to mention that I would
> receive my actual 50xx unit back and that I didn't have to worry about
> getting a 55xx machine!

You might be the first one! I would call again. They never had people
repairing units before. They would just ship them off to a sub
contractor and send you a refurb from somebody else.

You could get a 120g Maxtor for $29 after rebate, send the original
drive back to Maxtor for warranty replacement and in probably 1/2 the
time compared to the Replay fix.
 
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Well, it used to be that defective units were shipped to Memphis IIRC
but now they go to DNNA in Waco. That's also the facility that the tech
was at so. I'll let you know what happens.

From:Tony D
nospam@nospam.com

> BruceR wrote:
>> Spoke to DNNA today and they agreed that the disk was toast. As the
>> machine had just hit one year from activation date they extended the
>> $35 flat rate repair. With shipping to them included it's still
>> cheaper than a new drive and
>
>
>
>> they'll look over the whole thing while it's there.
>
> Yeah, right.
>
>> Before I even asked, Tech Support was quick to mention that I would
>> receive my actual 50xx unit back and that I didn't have to worry
>> about getting a 55xx machine!
>
> You might be the first one! I would call again. They never had people
> repairing units before. They would just ship them off to a sub
> contractor and send you a refurb from somebody else.
>
> You could get a 120g Maxtor for $29 after rebate, send the original
> drive back to Maxtor for warranty replacement and in probably 1/2 the
> time compared to the Replay fix.
 
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Tony D wrote:
> BruceR wrote:
>> Before I even asked, Tech Support was quick to mention that I would
>> receive my actual 50xx unit back and that I didn't have to worry about
>> getting a 55xx machine!
>
>
> You might be the first one! I would call again. They never had people
> repairing units before. They would just ship them off to a sub
> contractor and send you a refurb from somebody else.

When I sent in my 5504 under warranty the unit I got back had the same
serial number and MAC as the one I sent in... Clearly they fixed it, not
a swap out


--
John F Davis, in Delightful Detroit. WA8YXM(at)arrl(dot)net
"Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business"
Diabetic? http://community.compuserve.com/diabetes
 
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On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 22:33:00 GMT, John in Detroit
<Blanked@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>When I sent in my 5504 under warranty the unit I got back had the same
>serial number and MAC as the one I sent in... Clearly they fixed it, not
>a swap out


Or they just swapped/cloned the flash ROM. RTV wrote those numbers in
there the first time. They can certainly do it again.
I bet there are some quiet hackers out here who have done it.
 
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Seems like that would be at least as much work as just swapping the bad
drive though. As long as I get a 50xx back I don't really care though.
I have no special attachment to the serial number or MAC.

From:gfretwell@aol.com
gfretwell@aol.com

> On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 22:33:00 GMT, John in Detroit
> <Blanked@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> When I sent in my 5504 under warranty the unit I got back had the
>> same serial number and MAC as the one I sent in... Clearly they
>> fixed it, not a swap out
>
>
> Or they just swapped/cloned the flash ROM. RTV wrote those numbers in
> there the first time. They can certainly do it again.
> I bet there are some quiet hackers out here who have done it.
 
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On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 01:14:10 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:

>On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 22:33:00 GMT, John in Detroit
><Blanked@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>When I sent in my 5504 under warranty the unit I got back had the same
>>serial number and MAC as the one I sent in... Clearly they fixed it, not
>>a swap out
>
>
>Or they just swapped/cloned the flash ROM.

And maybe forgot to change the label on the outside of the unit.

> RTV wrote those numbers in
>there the first time. They can certainly do it again.
>I bet there are some quiet hackers out here who have done it.


--
Mark Lloyd
has a Replay 5xxx
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"The idea that there is an invisible being who
created and still runs this old universe is so
childish, so obviously contrived, that it is hard to
believe anyone with even a modicum of education can
still fall for that scam."
 
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On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 07:01:22 GMT, "BruceR" <brNOSPAM@hawaii.com>
wrote:

>Seems like that would be at least as much work as just swapping the bad
>drive though. As long as I get a 50xx back I don't really care though.
>I have no special attachment to the serial number or MAC.

If they are running out of good "hot spares" that is reasonable but I
am still not convinced there isn't a way to zap the flash ROM via the
ethernet port.
The people who actually do this stuff seem to be abiding by their
non-disclosure agreements quite well.
 
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On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 13:01:36 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:

>On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 07:01:22 GMT, "BruceR" <brNOSPAM@hawaii.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Seems like that would be at least as much work as just swapping the bad
>>drive though. As long as I get a 50xx back I don't really care though.
>>I have no special attachment to the serial number or MAC.
>
>If they are running out of good "hot spares" that is reasonable but I
>am still not convinced there isn't a way to zap the flash ROM via the
>ethernet port.

Although there is a standard way to update flash memory on board. The
connections could be disguised as "test points".

>The people who actually do this stuff seem to be abiding by their
>non-disclosure agreements quite well.

--
Mark Lloyd
has a Replay 5xxx
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"The idea that there is an invisible being who
created and still runs this old universe is so
childish, so obviously contrived, that it is hard to
believe anyone with even a modicum of education can
still fall for that scam."
 
G

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On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 17:06:00 -0500, Mark Lloyd
<mlloyd@5xxxmail.com5xxx> wrote:

>Although there is a standard way to update flash memory on board. The
>connections could be disguised as "test points".

There is no hardware reason they couldn't upload a small utility to
zap in new data, just like you flash the ROM on your PC.
 
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Well, in another week or so we'll know for sure. They can flsh the ROM,
change the label or whatever else they want but I'll know for sure by
checking for the mark I etched on the bottom. But as I said before, as
long as I get back a 50xx machine I don't really care.

From:gfretwell@aol.com
gfretwell@aol.com

> On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 17:06:00 -0500, Mark Lloyd
> <mlloyd@5xxxmail.com5xxx> wrote:
>
>> Although there is a standard way to update flash memory on board. The
>> connections could be disguised as "test points".
>
> There is no hardware reason they couldn't upload a small utility to
> zap in new data, just like you flash the ROM on your PC.
 
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On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 10:40:31 GMT, "BruceR" <brNOSPAM@hawaii.com>
wrote:

>Well, in another week or so we'll know for sure. They can flsh the ROM,
>change the label or whatever else they want but I'll know for sure by
>checking for the mark I etched on the bottom. But as I said before, as
>long as I get back a 50xx machine I don't really care.
>

I'd like to know if you find that mark when you get it back.

They could try to duplicate those marks too, but are probably too lazy
to do it.

>From:gfretwell@aol.com
>gfretwell@aol.com
>
>> On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 17:06:00 -0500, Mark Lloyd
>> <mlloyd@5xxxmail.com5xxx> wrote:
>>
>>> Although there is a standard way to update flash memory on board. The
>>> connections could be disguised as "test points".
>>
>> There is no hardware reason they couldn't upload a small utility to
>> zap in new data, just like you flash the ROM on your PC.
>

--
Mark Lloyd
has a Replay 5xxx
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"The idea that there is an invisible being who
created and still runs this old universe is so
childish, so obviously contrived, that it is hard to
believe anyone with even a modicum of education can
still fall for that scam."
 
G

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"Mark Lloyd" <mlloyd@5xxxmail.com5xxx> wrote in message
news:2hvcd1tvi1qkujfi4k70nrrt9mt5bgs2d2@4ax.com...
>
> I'd like to know if you find that mark when you get it back.
>
> They could try to duplicate those marks too, but are probably too lazy
> to do it.

Too lazy? I can't imagine any repair shop examining the box to duplicate
any identifying marks put there by the owner. More likely they're too busy
doing the repairs.

Regards,

Margaret
 
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Margaret Wilson wrote:
> "Mark Lloyd" <mlloyd@5xxxmail.com5xxx> wrote in message
> news:2hvcd1tvi1qkujfi4k70nrrt9mt5bgs2d2@4ax.com...
>
>>I'd like to know if you find that mark when you get it back.
>>
>>They could try to duplicate those marks too, but are probably too lazy
>>to do it.
>
>
> Too lazy? I can't imagine any repair shop examining the box to duplicate
> any identifying marks put there by the owner. More likely they're too busy
> doing the repairs.

One common "Scam" in the business world today is the repair scam. now
this scam is common in automotive, home, and electronic repair.

It consists of charging for repairs and parts not needed or replaced

I do not know of any examples of home repair "Stings" but I do know both
auto and electronic

In the auto field, various orginations and groups including more than
one attorney General's office, 60 Minutes and Popular Mechinics
magazine (I would not be surprised to find any auto magazine in this
group) have gone out, the have a car, often with Michigan plates for
some reason, they drive around to various repair facilities, in the car
are either a man, woman, and childeren, or two men, In the latter case
one of the men is an engineer from the auto manafacturer (Ford in one
case I read of) They intentionally "Break" something, example, install
a bad spark wire

Then they go to the repair faility and get the estimant

ONe I actually held in my hand said it needed a new fuel pump, new
transmission, new CV joints, New exhaust and more

It needed... New spark wires (I know I replaced them)

That was not one of the "Stings" though, that was my wife's car

In the electronics division, various orginations as listed above however
substitute Popular Electronics (Back when it existed) would take a TV in
to various TV shops, not it had a bad part in it, they knew cause they
made it bad... They sprayed it with ultraviolet paint

After they got it back, sometimes with the $2.49 part replaced, other
times with a very long list of repaired parts.. They UVed it

In each and every case only the bad part had been replaced, the hundred
or so dollars worth of other stuff was not repalced

Note, Pop Electronics went out of business like 30 years ago so you know
that today that 100 worth of unneeded parts not replaced would be 500 to
1000

So, why am I telling you this?

1: To warn you about repairs you pay for (this does not apply to warranty)

2: A quick spritz with UV paint before you send it out (note you can
spray into a vent for cases you do not wish to open, use non-conductive
paint UNPLUG before spraying, a day (or more) before

and then black light upon reciept (you will have to open up here)


Also DNNA said if you break the seal, they won't fix it (Breaking the
seal voids warranty by the way)

Thus, if you marked an internal part.... You might not get it back fixed

(Note, I do not see them turning down a repair fee just because you did
a drive upgrade... that would not make sense)

--
John F Davis, in Delightful Detroit. WA8YXM(at)arrl(dot)net
"Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business"
Diabetic? http://community.compuserve.com/diabetes
 
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On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 17:44:21 GMT, John in Detroit
<Blanked@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>Margaret Wilson wrote:
>> "Mark Lloyd" <mlloyd@5xxxmail.com5xxx> wrote in message
>> news:2hvcd1tvi1qkujfi4k70nrrt9mt5bgs2d2@4ax.com...
>>
>>>I'd like to know if you find that mark when you get it back.
>>>
>>>They could try to duplicate those marks too, but are probably too lazy
>>>to do it.
>>
>>
>> Too lazy? I can't imagine any repair shop examining the box to duplicate
>> any identifying marks put there by the owner. More likely they're too busy
>> doing the repairs.
>
>One common "Scam" in the business world today is the repair scam. now
>this scam is common in automotive, home, and electronic repair.
>
>It consists of charging for repairs and parts not needed or replaced
>
>I do not know of any examples of home repair "Stings" but I do know both
>auto and electronic
>

I seem to remember something about using a hidden camera to watch
people working on thier A/C. I still think I get better service if I
watch.

[snip]

--
Mark Lloyd
has a Replay 5xxx
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"The idea that there is an invisible being who
created and still runs this old universe is so
childish, so obviously contrived, that it is hard to
believe anyone with even a modicum of education can
still fall for that scam."
 
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I really think you need another layer of tin-foil on your head cause this is
just getting idiotic.

"Mark Lloyd" <mlloyd@5xxxmail.com5xxx> wrote in message
news:2hvcd1tvi1qkujfi4k70nrrt9mt5bgs2d2@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 10:40:31 GMT, "BruceR" <brNOSPAM@hawaii.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Well, in another week or so we'll know for sure. They can flsh the ROM,
>>change the label or whatever else they want but I'll know for sure by
>>checking for the mark I etched on the bottom. But as I said before, as
>>long as I get back a 50xx machine I don't really care.
>>
>
> I'd like to know if you find that mark when you get it back.
>
> They could try to duplicate those marks too, but are probably too lazy
> to do it.
>
>>From:gfretwell@aol.com
>>gfretwell@aol.com
>>
>>> On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 17:06:00 -0500, Mark Lloyd
>>> <mlloyd@5xxxmail.com5xxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Although there is a standard way to update flash memory on board. The
>>>> connections could be disguised as "test points".
>>>
>>> There is no hardware reason they couldn't upload a small utility to
>>> zap in new data, just like you flash the ROM on your PC.
>>
>
> --
> Mark Lloyd
> has a Replay 5xxx
> http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com
>
> "The idea that there is an invisible being who
> created and still runs this old universe is so
> childish, so obviously contrived, that it is hard to
> believe anyone with even a modicum of education can
> still fall for that scam."
 

Jim

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Mar 31, 2004
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On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 18:08:22 GMT, "CheezWiz" <cw@here.not.there>
wrote:

>I really think you need another layer of tin-foil on your head cause this is
>just getting idiotic.
>

So, all idiocy comes from external sources? :)

>"Mark Lloyd" <mlloyd@5xxxmail.com5xxx> wrote in message
>news:2hvcd1tvi1qkujfi4k70nrrt9mt5bgs2d2@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 10:40:31 GMT, "BruceR" <brNOSPAM@hawaii.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Well, in another week or so we'll know for sure. They can flsh the ROM,
>>>change the label or whatever else they want but I'll know for sure by
>>>checking for the mark I etched on the bottom. But as I said before, as
>>>long as I get back a 50xx machine I don't really care.
>>>
>>
>> I'd like to know if you find that mark when you get it back.
>>
>> They could try to duplicate those marks too, but are probably too lazy
>> to do it.
>>
>>>From:gfretwell@aol.com
>>>gfretwell@aol.com
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 17:06:00 -0500, Mark Lloyd
>>>> <mlloyd@5xxxmail.com5xxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Although there is a standard way to update flash memory on board. The
>>>>> connections could be disguised as "test points".
>>>>
>>>> There is no hardware reason they couldn't upload a small utility to
>>>> zap in new data, just like you flash the ROM on your PC.
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Mark Lloyd
>> has a Replay 5xxx
>> http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com
>>
>> "The idea that there is an invisible being who
>> created and still runs this old universe is so
>> childish, so obviously contrived, that it is hard to
>> believe anyone with even a modicum of education can
>> still fall for that scam."
>
 
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The marks consist of some random scratches and tape residue that would
be hard to "forge" even if they wanted to. DNNA, who's paying for the
shipping back to me, isn't making any money on the $35 they're charging.
It seems perfectly reasonable that they'll just open the unit, watch
what happens when they turn it on, swap out the hard drive and button it
up after doing a quick QC. I don't think there's any conspiracy there
to try and convert me to a 55xx. If they choose to send me a refurb
50xx that's cool too.

From:Mark Lloyd
mlloyd@5xxxmail.com5xxx

> On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 10:40:31 GMT, "BruceR" <brNOSPAM@hawaii.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Well, in another week or so we'll know for sure. They can flsh the
>> ROM, change the label or whatever else they want but I'll know for
>> sure by checking for the mark I etched on the bottom. But as I said
>> before, as long as I get back a 50xx machine I don't really care.
>>
>
> I'd like to know if you find that mark when you get it back.
>
> They could try to duplicate those marks too, but are probably too lazy
> to do it.
>
>> From:gfretwell@aol.com
>> gfretwell@aol.com
>>
>>> On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 17:06:00 -0500, Mark Lloyd
>>> <mlloyd@5xxxmail.com5xxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Although there is a standard way to update flash memory on board.
>>>> The connections could be disguised as "test points".
>>>
>>> There is no hardware reason they couldn't upload a small utility to
>>> zap in new data, just like you flash the ROM on your PC.
>>
>
> --
> Mark Lloyd
> has a Replay 5xxx
> http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com
>
> "The idea that there is an invisible being who
> created and still runs this old universe is so
> childish, so obviously contrived, that it is hard to
> believe anyone with even a modicum of education can
> still fall for that scam."
 
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>
> Networking has one major assumption. Two network cards cannot have the same
> MAC address. I don't know the extent that DNNA would have to go through to
> duplicate MAC addresses, but I'm pretty confident that if you get the same
> MAC address, you've got the same motherboard.
>
>
A simple check on Poopli will discover the problem of duplicate IVS
numbers. Hundreds/thousands of units had the same mac addresses. DNNA
offered to swap your unit, but mine was fixed online by one of the forum
members.
 
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Mark Lloyd wrote:
> I seem to remember something about using a hidden camera to watch
> people working on thier A/C. I still think I get better service if I
> watch.

Yup, that is one of the ways they catch the scammers... 60 Minutes used
this method too... Pulled into a gas station and had the camera truck
nearby... The camera truck watched the attendent flatten the tire

OPPS, free tire, fired attendent, investigation time
--
John F Davis, in Delightful Detroit. WA8YXM(at)arrl(dot)net
"Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business"
Diabetic? http://community.compuserve.com/diabetes
 
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