GA-G1.Sniper Z97 onboard vs. discrete soundcard

[Greentea007]

I currently have a g1 sniper z97 mobo, which has an onboard Creative Sound Core3D quad-core audio processor.

My current audio set up is Plantronics GameCom 780 (which is very uncomfortable), Phillips CityScape Uptown, and a Klipsch Promedia 2.1 for my desk.

I currently have not used my 780's on this new rig. So far I've used the Uptowns and promedia. The creative sound software allows me to use the Phillips in a 5.1/stereo. The 5.1 option with the uptown's doesn't sound as decent as the 780's did on my last rig in terms of surround sound (7.1); though the uptowns are more comfortable and produce better sound quality. The 780's are too uncomfortable for me to want to wear.

What I'm asking is will better stereo headphones produce a better virtual surround sound with my current onboard hardware? Will a discrete soundcard allow my uptowns to have a better v. surround sound in games like bf4? Or should I purchase both new stereo headphones and a discrete sound card.

I do enjoy the sound quality of good stereo headphones, and would like to implement them in fps pc gaming.

My budget for headphones are $150 and $100 for a soundcard.

 

[byza]

If you don't mind open air headphones the Audio-Technica AD-ATH 700's have great positional audio paired with onboard sound and virtual surround software.

 

[ssddx]

the gamecom 780 is a stereo headset... it uses virtual surround just like your motherboard does.

the difference is that your motherboard uses SBX (creatives variant) instead of dolby headphone. generally sbx is said to be superior but i suppose some may like dolby headphone more.

generally ALL virtual surround is a bit distorted sounding.

your onboard sound seems to be fairly half decent. perhaps not as good as high end soundcards but at least as good or better than the cheap ones.

look at http/www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-update-10-15-2014-beyerdynamic-t51i-added and play the virtual surround videos at the top with your headphones on. do you notice a marked difference between dolby headphone and cmss3d? (cmss3d is the previous version of SBX)

answer the above before i make suggestions.

 

[Greentea007]

the gamecom 780 is a stereo headset... it uses virtual surround just like your motherboard does.

the difference is that your motherboard uses SBX (creatives variant) instead of dolby headphone. generally sbx is said to be superior but i suppose some may like dolby headphone more.

generally ALL virtual surround is a bit distorted sounding.

your onboard sound seems to be fairly half decent. perhaps not as good as high end soundcards but at least as good or better than the cheap ones.

look at http/www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-update-10-15-2014-beyerdynamic-t51i-added and play the virtual surround videos at the top with your headphones on. do you notice a marked difference between dolby headphone and cmss3d? (cmss3d is the previous version of SBX)

answer the above before i make suggestions.

Thanks for the reply. I did notice a marked difference. The cmss sounded better overall, and the v. surround sound was more prominent in terms of clarity and direction. The dolby sounded very atmospheric, as if I were watching a video of someone playing the clip on their tv. The v. surround sound wasn't as great in terms of direction as well.

 

[Greentea007]

If you don't mind open air headphones the Audio-Technica AD-ATH 700's have great positional audio paired with onboard sound and virtual surround software.

I appreciate your reply and I'll take the 700s into consideration; however I have read that the bass in those aren't as strong, which is something that bothered me a little with the Uptowns. The Uptowns sound nice and crisp overall, but listening to explosions in games were a bit dull. I do remember watching a youtube video about a review on the ASTRO headset (can't remember if it was a40/a50.) Anyway the reviewer said he preferred the option with the bass down during FPS's because he can hear footsteps better (something like that). His personal preference, though I would like a little more bass than what the Uptowns provide.

 

[byza]

Yeah the bass in any open air headphones is going to be lacking and I can confirm it's not great in the 700's.

 

[ssddx]

@op

if you liked cmss3d then you should like SBX which your motherboard has since they are both made by creative.

find a video which demonstrates SBX just as a test to be sure but i'm going to have to say that you might want to stick to your onboard sound and that whatever game you were testing just was a fluke and you need to run more tests.

while most certainly a good soundcard can give you a slight step up in sound, i'm not sure if its going to be necessary or not (but this depends on if you get headphones and which ones you get as well...see what i say below).

i'm going to combine the budget for headphones and soundcard as $300 since this will open up a few more options. some options however might exceed your budget by a little bit but are worth considering.

the audiotechnica ad700x $150 and ad900x $190 headphones are extremely bass light. most people who like decent bass response will say they are bass-less. such mid-high focus can be good for competitive gaming since bass can often cover up subtle clues like footsteps which can give you an edge however it also makes the game seem a bit less ...for lack of a better word... epic in terms of how it sucks you in with soundscape. the headphones here however do have one of the largest soundstages for great positional accuracy.

pretty much all headphones from AKG are similar in that they have very little bass and tend to be a bit sharp on the highs.

the beyerdynamic dt990pro 250 $200 is an open pair of headphones with a nice wide soundstage (but not quite as big as the ad700), clear sound and suprisingly deep bass for an open headphone. for the money its one of the better headphones to buy if you want bassy but open for gaming. they are known to be a bit bright in the highs though so you may want to tune them down with the EQ. they are known to be comfortable for people with glasses and large ears. they are however rather hard to drive so you'd want to use a soundcard like the creative z OR use a headphone amplifier between your onboard soundcard and headphones. a good headphone amp runs about $100 such as the schiit magni which would power them fine. lesser (cheaper) amps may not provide enough for these demanding headphones however its worthwhile given their sound.

the dt770 $200 is a closed design so lacks a large soundstage of open headphones which makes it not quite as ideal for gaming however many people still like them since they have a nice strong bass presence without getting sloppy or distorted in highs and mids. they have a V shaped sound profile accenting highs and lows with slightly recessed mids. they come in 32/80/250 flavors so some are easy to drive and some need a better amp. comfort is equal to the 990. generally the 770 is compared with the cheaper ath-m50 $100 but is superior to them given that it has a bit wider soundstage and a bit better sound quality but for double the price that should be the case.

the dt880 is similar to the above two but is neutral in sound profile and semi-open. its generally considered a bit more boring to listen to and more analytical.

the sennheiser hd598 $180 is an open pair of cans which doesnt have as wide of a soundstage as the ad700 and possibly not as good as the 990 but has more bass than the 700 but not as much as the 990. generally its considered a good gaming pair of headphones but for people looking for a more bassy sound they may find it slightly lacking. its easy to drive without a whole lot of power.

the hd558 $100 doesnt quite have the sound quality as the 598 or the soundstage but does have a bit more bass presence. its not really as good as the other cans listed here however for the price certainly not a bad option. its easy enough to drive without much power.

generally any of the cans above are fine with normal soundcards or onboard except any 250ohm models (specifically the 990pro which is only 250 or the 250 ohm 770).

 

[Greentea007]

@op

if you liked cmss3d then you should like SBX which your motherboard has since they are both made by creative.

find a video which demonstrates SBX just as a test to be sure but i'm going to have to say that you might want to stick to your onboard sound and that whatever game you were testing just was a fluke and you need to run more tests.

while most certainly a good soundcard can give you a slight step up in sound, i'm not sure if its going to be necessary or not (but this depends on if you get headphones and which ones you get as well...see what i say below).

i'm going to combine the budget for headphones and soundcard as $300 since this will open up a few more options. some options however might exceed your budget by a little bit but are worth considering.

the audiotechnica ad700x $150 and ad900x $190 headphones are extremely bass light. most people who like decent bass response will say they are bass-less. such mid-high focus can be good for competitive gaming since bass can often cover up subtle clues like footsteps which can give you an edge however it also makes the game seem a bit less ...for lack of a better word... epic in terms of how it sucks you in with soundscape. the headphones here however do have one of the largest soundstages for great positional accuracy.

pretty much all headphones from AKG are similar in that they have very little bass and tend to be a bit sharp on the highs.

the beyerdynamic dt990pro 250 $200 is an open pair of headphones with a nice wide soundstage (but not quite as big as the ad700), clear sound and suprisingly deep bass for an open headphone. for the money its one of the better headphones to buy if you want bassy but open for gaming. they are known to be a bit bright in the highs though so you may want to tune them down with the EQ. they are known to be comfortable for people with glasses and large ears. they are however rather hard to drive so you'd want to use a soundcard like the creative z OR use a headphone amplifier between your onboard soundcard and headphones. a good headphone amp runs about $100 such as the schiit magni which would power them fine. lesser (cheaper) amps may not provide enough for these demanding headphones however its worthwhile given their sound.

the dt770 $200 is a closed design so lacks a large soundstage of open headphones which makes it not quite as ideal for gaming however many people still like them since they have a nice strong bass presence without getting sloppy or distorted in highs and mids. they have a V shaped sound profile accenting highs and lows with slightly recessed mids. they come in 32/80/250 flavors so some are easy to drive and some need a better amp. comfort is equal to the 990. generally the 770 is compared with the cheaper ath-m50 $100 but is superior to them given that it has a bit wider soundstage and a bit better sound quality but for double the price that should be the case.

the dt880 is similar to the above two but is neutral in sound profile and semi-open. its generally considered a bit more boring to listen to and more analytical.

the sennheiser hd598 $180 is an open pair of cans which doesnt have as wide of a soundstage as the ad700 and possibly not as good as the 990 but has more bass than the 700 but not as much as the 990. generally its considered a good gaming pair of headphones but for people looking for a more bassy sound they may find it slightly lacking. its easy to drive without a whole lot of power.

the hd558 $100 doesnt quite have the sound quality as the 598 or the soundstage but does have a bit more bass presence. its not really as good as the other cans listed here however for the price certainly not a bad option. its easy enough to drive without much power.

generally any of the cans above are fine with normal soundcards or onboard except any 250ohm models (specifically the 990pro which is only 250 or the 250 ohm 770).

Thanks for the detail. I will probably get the 990 pro's with the amp. I'll wait till the end of the year to see if either or drop in price. The cityscape uptowns are my first over ear headphones. I've only used ear buds in the past, (used the bose IE's for several years now.) I can't really compare over ears; where I live (Hawaii), the local bestbuy/sears/radioshack/walmart sample only Beats, Monsters, Sony's, and I really prefer my cityscapes over them.

Thing I'm wondering about is just the comparison between the 990's, amped, and the uptowns. The uptowns sound okay, but I'm wondering if the upgrade is worth $300. I know the argument is I pay for the experience, but would it be nearly $300 worth? The cityscapes are okay, but are just lacking bass and comfort (hawaii heat + leather enclosed pads), but I'd endure them if the quality in audio/comfort would be under 15-25% in comparison, to save $300.

Would be nice if you have sampled the uptowns, but if not, would you have an idea of how they would compare?

 

[ssddx]

i own neither the uptowns nor 990's so i couldnt quantify that for you.

for $200 price point the 990's are in the top of the list for their sound type category.

for $200 i'd say they would more than justify the price. the trouble is that they are hard to drive so need a good amp. cheaper amps have been used to power them but in all cases people say that its not enough which is why i started with one at $100 which is known to work pretty decent with them.

 

[shotgunz]

If heat is a problem for you, the HD598's stay the coolest due to their larger foam and velour pads, plus the fact that they are more open than the beyerdynamic ones. Light can easily shine through so heat from your head will also too.

 

[ssddx]

they also dont need an amp so it would cost only about $200 not $300

the trouble is that for bassheads they really dont have alot of bass. though if he was interested only in a moderate amount of bass they would likely be fine. i'm not sure just how light on bass his current headphones are and how these ones compare (never heard of the uptowns before this)

worth a thought though.

 

[shotgunz]

He could use an amp with bass boost functions such as the fiio e6 or e07k

As a bonus, he can also hook them upto his phone or anything else for more bass and sound quality

 

[Greentea007]

i own neither the uptowns nor 990's so i couldnt quantify that for you.

for $200 price point the 990's are in the top of the list for their sound type category.

for $200 i'd say they would more than justify the price. the trouble is that they are hard to drive so need a good amp. cheaper amps have been used to power them but in all cases people say that its not enough which is why i started with one at $100 which is known to work pretty decent with them.

May be a noob question but I heard my onboard card has an amp-up tech that powers up to 600 ohms

source ---> https/www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHjoTm_bhmg
source ---> "Exclusive onboard 'Gain Boost' selector switches
+ Select either standard 2.5x or high-amplification 6x mode.
+ 6x mode is ideal for high impedance speakers and headphones" -http/www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4952#ov


I was wondering if I could power the AKG q701 or dt990 pro's straight from my mobo and get "good" sound?

I was also thinking about the philips x1 seeing as it also fits my budget.

Thought? Thanks

 

[ssddx]

hard to give you a 100% straight answer on that.

will your onboard sound "power" the headphones so that you can use them? certainly yes. this was never in doubt.

however, knowing that they are hard to drive for even some respected soundcards like the Z or cheaper headphone amps.. i'm not sure if you would be able to get the most out of your headphones or not. you might have less volume and less bass if this is the case. still listenable though.

you could however get the headphones, use your onboard for now and upgrade to an amp in the future if you thought you needed one. that would be the easiest way to test and would save you $100 if you thought your onboard was fine and would let you know for sure that an amp is needed if you thought it lacking a bit.

in short: yes they will power on your onboard sound, but you might not get 100% out of them (not sure how much power your onboard can provide).

--

the akg q701 will have very poor bass levels and will be very "highs" oriented. some people find akg headphones to be overly bright (sometimes piercing highs) but if you prefer highs/mids without much in terms of bass then they are certainly respectable headphones.

they will drive fine on most sources given their low impedence.

--

not familiar with the phillips x1.... i'd suggest reading a head-fi review or forum question comparing the dt990 with the x1

 

[Greentea007]

Thanks for the input guys. I went ahead and bought the x1's.