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fulle
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- May 31, 2008
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Tayb... your point on whether or not we have things we sell digitally is irrelevant to the argument. The thieves struck first, and developers have a right to be upset so many people pirate. Yes, DRM would go away if piracy didn't exist. But the chances that millions upon millions of software pirates are going to wake up one day and have some kind of moral epiphany are pretty fucking low, don't you think? Also, percentages are based off of 100, you seem to have hit your zero key a few times extra by accident.
The DRM conversation gets down to one question. Just one. "Does DRM software help prevent piracy?". Current evidence suggests the answer is "NO!". Systems like Steam, which also employ DRM, are more likely to work because they offer the user a service, added convienience, and perceived added value for the products they purchase. That's what developers should be concentrating on to make themselves more money. Finding ways to add perceived value to their products... not pissing off the 10% that still pays for them.
The DRM conversation gets down to one question. Just one. "Does DRM software help prevent piracy?". Current evidence suggests the answer is "NO!". Systems like Steam, which also employ DRM, are more likely to work because they offer the user a service, added convienience, and perceived added value for the products they purchase. That's what developers should be concentrating on to make themselves more money. Finding ways to add perceived value to their products... not pissing off the 10% that still pays for them.
[citation][nom]blasterth[/nom]when you buy an ipod or an iphones the first thing to do is hack them to improve their functionalities. After this mandatory first step, pirating the soft is just a normal consequence.[/citation]
Considering these things cost about as much as a mid-range computer unless you get them by locking yourself into a 3 year contract with a cell phone provider, I think I can wait a year or two for the warranty on it to expire before jailbreakig it TYVM.
I personally like the phone compared to the alternatives out there currently, but it would be so much better if it wasn't restricted by apple. Cant wait to see that new Motorola phone.
Considering these things cost about as much as a mid-range computer unless you get them by locking yourself into a 3 year contract with a cell phone provider, I think I can wait a year or two for the warranty on it to expire before jailbreakig it TYVM.
I personally like the phone compared to the alternatives out there currently, but it would be so much better if it wasn't restricted by apple. Cant wait to see that new Motorola phone.
JonathanDeane
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- Mar 28, 2006
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[citation][nom]asjflask[/nom]So how do they know the piracy figures? Pulled it out of their ass did they?[/citation]
From what I understand there is specific bit that is set in some sort of software that the better copy programs patch....
Also if X amount of people log on your high score server, but you only sold X amount then it does not take a super math wiz to figure out.
It's much harder to track this kind of things on a PC since most pirates are smart enough to use a good firewall that keeps an application from phoning home.
From what I understand there is specific bit that is set in some sort of software that the better copy programs patch....
Also if X amount of people log on your high score server, but you only sold X amount then it does not take a super math wiz to figure out.
It's much harder to track this kind of things on a PC since most pirates are smart enough to use a good firewall that keeps an application from phoning home.
rodney_ws
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- Dec 29, 2005
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Jesus... I assumed the sarcasm would be apparent. No amount of restrictions can force someone to buy your product. Some people are just unwilling to pay for stuff... period. They're just making it harder on the rest of us who actually do buy their products from time to time.
If companies Like EA would stop taking good games (command and conquer to name one) and turning them to total complete trash with 0 replay value I'd consider buying it, if only to get a CD key that works online. Im tried of crap being rammed down my throat and how people who "rate" video games are bought off to give bad games good ratings. Make a good game with out DRM, one that I don't need a No CD crack to play with out a CD and i'll buy your game.
I have BOUGHT EVERY valve game to date.
You will NEVER see me buy a EA PoS, Even if it is good.
I have BOUGHT EVERY valve game to date.
You will NEVER see me buy a EA PoS, Even if it is good.
rodney_ws
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- Dec 29, 2005
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When DRM is 100% invisible to legitimate, paying customers and when it allows for 100% fair use by those customers I doubt you'll see as many objections to it. In the mean time, DRM is just a pain in the butt for honest people and in many cases it limits our fair use of what we have purchased.
Steam is the closest thing to good DRM I've seen/used... if only it would let you transfer your games to another account, it would be damned near perfect.
Steam is the closest thing to good DRM I've seen/used... if only it would let you transfer your games to another account, it would be damned near perfect.
JasonAkkerman
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- Apr 28, 2008
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[citation][nom]tayb[/nom]You guys needs to quit your bitching about DRM and copy protection. Clearly none of you have any works on the iTunes App store or have ever sold anything of value digitally. Who struck first? The DRM or the thieves? If I spend hundreds of hours working on an application only to find out that 90% of the people using it or playing it STOLE IT I have a right to be pissed and a right to place some copy protection on my software.If you idiots stopped stealing the DRM would go away because there would be no need for it. But, ironically, instead of blaming the thieves (probably yourselves) you blame the companies who put in the hard work making the games for TRYING TO MAKE MONEY OFF OF THEIR WORK. This is not Soviet Russia. If I make a game it's because I want to make money selling it. Next time you want to complain about DRM start bitching about the people stealing it because it's THEIR FAULT. 10000% THEIR FAULT.[/citation]
Lighten up Francis.
Yes, people that have their software stolen have the right to be upset. Nobody is saying different. The complaints against copy protection and DRM are about how ineffective they are at stopping piracy. They only make things harder on the legit users.
Second. You are sorely mistaken if you think DRM will die off when piracy does. DRM is used as a way to control your usage. Using DRM music, for instance, requires the use of a licensed device to listen to it. DRM on video discs (DVD, Blu-Ray) means you can't make a backup copy, or store the video you paid money for on a media server. It is just another way for people to control your usage.
Lighten up Francis.
Yes, people that have their software stolen have the right to be upset. Nobody is saying different. The complaints against copy protection and DRM are about how ineffective they are at stopping piracy. They only make things harder on the legit users.
Second. You are sorely mistaken if you think DRM will die off when piracy does. DRM is used as a way to control your usage. Using DRM music, for instance, requires the use of a licensed device to listen to it. DRM on video discs (DVD, Blu-Ray) means you can't make a backup copy, or store the video you paid money for on a media server. It is just another way for people to control your usage.
WheelsOfConfusion
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- Aug 18, 2008
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[citation][nom]tayb[/nom]You guys needs to quit your bitching about DRM and copy protection. ... If I spend hundreds of hours working on an application only to find out that 90% of the people using it or playing it STOLE IT I have a right to be pissed and a right to place some copy protection on my software.[/citation]
Speaking as one of the (probably few) non-pirates around these parts, I appreciate the right of the content owner to protect their copyrights. However, DRM is generally not a wokable solution because it will always be cracked in a matter of time and once it's out in the wild, you will not be able to stop it no matter how much you lock down the retail version. Generally DRM just makes life harder for the people willing to pay money for your stuff, like when Wal-Mart decided to shut down their DRM servers and instantly destroyed the usefulness of MP3s downloaded through their store. The people who bought tracks off of iTunes before DRM was lifted now have a lot of money tied up in something they can't move around. Sony's infamous rootkit fiasco caused legitimate customers a lot of serious problems and opened up their computers to malware because it was never made clear that the music people were buying would fuck with their computers. That incident also made DRM a public concern and probably made customers even more cynical against copyright protections. Spore's install-limiting DRM basically means that people who bought the game early were just renting it instead of owning it. Famously, the cracked version of Spore was actually better in some ways than the retail version because you could re-install it on the same machine as many times as you wanted, so it actually offered MORE functionality than the legit copy. And what good are Kindle books if your reader is given away? Just about the only DRM scheme I've heard people be cool with is Steam, and that's excused because of the value of the service and the good execution (play on any computer with your steam account, for example).
You know all the history already, I'm sure. I'm not saying that most people who pirate would buy the product if there was no DRM, I'm not saying anybody's justified in piracy because DRM schemes often backfire. But there are legitimate complaints about DRM from a non-piracy angle, especially in recent years as many companies have been even more aggressive and restrictive with it. Not only does it make the experience of your product less valuable for the customer 9/10, but it will never be crack-proof and you won't ever be able to DRM your product out of the Usenets or torrents.
Speaking as one of the (probably few) non-pirates around these parts, I appreciate the right of the content owner to protect their copyrights. However, DRM is generally not a wokable solution because it will always be cracked in a matter of time and once it's out in the wild, you will not be able to stop it no matter how much you lock down the retail version. Generally DRM just makes life harder for the people willing to pay money for your stuff, like when Wal-Mart decided to shut down their DRM servers and instantly destroyed the usefulness of MP3s downloaded through their store. The people who bought tracks off of iTunes before DRM was lifted now have a lot of money tied up in something they can't move around. Sony's infamous rootkit fiasco caused legitimate customers a lot of serious problems and opened up their computers to malware because it was never made clear that the music people were buying would fuck with their computers. That incident also made DRM a public concern and probably made customers even more cynical against copyright protections. Spore's install-limiting DRM basically means that people who bought the game early were just renting it instead of owning it. Famously, the cracked version of Spore was actually better in some ways than the retail version because you could re-install it on the same machine as many times as you wanted, so it actually offered MORE functionality than the legit copy. And what good are Kindle books if your reader is given away? Just about the only DRM scheme I've heard people be cool with is Steam, and that's excused because of the value of the service and the good execution (play on any computer with your steam account, for example).
You know all the history already, I'm sure. I'm not saying that most people who pirate would buy the product if there was no DRM, I'm not saying anybody's justified in piracy because DRM schemes often backfire. But there are legitimate complaints about DRM from a non-piracy angle, especially in recent years as many companies have been even more aggressive and restrictive with it. Not only does it make the experience of your product less valuable for the customer 9/10, but it will never be crack-proof and you won't ever be able to DRM your product out of the Usenets or torrents.
There's no signs that piracy has gone down, but Apple and Amazon both sell DRM-free MP3s now. This isn't really an either-or situation, especially since piracy will probably never stop.
Folks, folks, I've said this before and I'll say it again stop propagating the term 'Pirate' when talking about file sharing. Those that did not pay for the app and are using them for there own purpose are not pirates. Those that download for profit are the pirates. I have paid for software, but it has been my experience that only 10% have been worth it, while 90% have been shear rubbage, that have either become obsolete in matter of months, don't have proper support or didn't live up to expectations. However I do pay for services, like my broadband cable, newsgroups, etc. Services is what people are geared towards after the fact.
Supertrek32
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- Nov 13, 2008
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Solution to piracy:
Make something people actually think deserves their money. Most software pirates wouldn't consider actually buying the games they priate - not because they're cheap but because they're not really that interested. Investing $60 in something you only kinda-sorta like... I can see why some people would turn to piracy. You didn't hear much about Halo/2 PC being pirated. Why? Because it's an awesome game. You know it's worth your money.
Oh wait... making a good game takes time and effort.... Nevermind. Everything I just said is ridiculous.
Make something people actually think deserves their money. Most software pirates wouldn't consider actually buying the games they priate - not because they're cheap but because they're not really that interested. Investing $60 in something you only kinda-sorta like... I can see why some people would turn to piracy. You didn't hear much about Halo/2 PC being pirated. Why? Because it's an awesome game. You know it's worth your money.
Oh wait... making a good game takes time and effort.... Nevermind. Everything I just said is ridiculous.
AtuBrian
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- Dec 24, 2008
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[citation][nom]rodney_ws[/nom]Well, clearly this company should place more restrictive controls on their software in order to force these people to purchase it. If it makes it a little more difficult for the actual paying customers who cares?!? You gotta keep those pirates from playing with your game for free![/citation]
are u stupid?
are u stupid?
De La NoChe
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- Apr 16, 2008
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[citation][nom]sheek[/nom]Piracy rates are not directly correlated to lost sales. Don't assume just because someone pirates a game that they would have bought it.[/citation]
I could not have said it better. Also, I would add that those people who did pirate the software could have actually HELPED make more legit sales since they spread the word "this is a good app" or whatever and it makes the game/app more popular. Most people who pirate have big mouths and are all about technology who love to spread the word on new cool stuff like the coolest new iPhone app... Its kind of like the same way lots of new Music Artist release their music for free online to spread the word/music so that people will hear of them and go to their shows. They become more marketable since they soo many people have heard of them.. Why?? Because it was a free download. Anyways, I could be wrong but that is what i think. (That is why there is usually a "Lite" version of really good apps. Because the Developer understands this)
I could not have said it better. Also, I would add that those people who did pirate the software could have actually HELPED make more legit sales since they spread the word "this is a good app" or whatever and it makes the game/app more popular. Most people who pirate have big mouths and are all about technology who love to spread the word on new cool stuff like the coolest new iPhone app... Its kind of like the same way lots of new Music Artist release their music for free online to spread the word/music so that people will hear of them and go to their shows. They become more marketable since they soo many people have heard of them.. Why?? Because it was a free download. Anyways, I could be wrong but that is what i think. (That is why there is usually a "Lite" version of really good apps. Because the Developer understands this)
De La NoChe
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- Apr 16, 2008
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[citation][nom]De La NoChe[/nom]I could not have said it better. Also, I would add that those people who did pirate the software could have actually HELPED make more legit sales since they spread the word "this is a good app" or whatever and it makes the game/app more popular. Most people who pirate have big mouths and are all about technology who love to spread the word on new cool stuff like the coolest new iPhone app... Its kind of like the same way lots of new Music Artist release their music for free online to spread the word/music so that people will hear of them and go to their shows. They become more marketable since they soo many people have heard of them.. Why?? Because it was a free download. Anyways, I could be wrong but that is what i think. (That is why there is usually a "Lite" version of really good apps. Because the Developer understands this)[/citation]
Your comment does not make sense for applications.
Artist release free music to get you to come spend money at concerts. It has a payback in the long run.
If a developer is having problems with people stealing their applications and they release a free application, what is the payback? Are you saying that down the road everyone will buy their next application due to the good karma of the free application and not steal it?
I call BS on that.
The problem is that almost anyone that makes any kind of argument that it is even remotely the developers fault are the same people that would say that if their stuff was better than people would use it. The truth is no matter how good you make it a large group of the people will say it still isn't worth it and steal it anyway. The simple fact is at heart those people are just thieves and that is their basic character.
Your comment does not make sense for applications.
Artist release free music to get you to come spend money at concerts. It has a payback in the long run.
If a developer is having problems with people stealing their applications and they release a free application, what is the payback? Are you saying that down the road everyone will buy their next application due to the good karma of the free application and not steal it?
I call BS on that.
The problem is that almost anyone that makes any kind of argument that it is even remotely the developers fault are the same people that would say that if their stuff was better than people would use it. The truth is no matter how good you make it a large group of the people will say it still isn't worth it and steal it anyway. The simple fact is at heart those people are just thieves and that is their basic character.
[citation][nom]Jerky_san[/nom]makes you wonder how they came up with these figures though..?[/citation]
Simple. they could have marked the software and when it authenticates with the high scores server, tells the server the checksum of the game and if it matches the initial pirated version, they tally that against a later revision of the game. Most times pirates of this type of software probably just download and jailbreak one copy of the software. Unlike on Nintendo consoles where the pirates locate every revision of the software that comes out and pirate those.
Simple. they could have marked the software and when it authenticates with the high scores server, tells the server the checksum of the game and if it matches the initial pirated version, they tally that against a later revision of the game. Most times pirates of this type of software probably just download and jailbreak one copy of the software. Unlike on Nintendo consoles where the pirates locate every revision of the software that comes out and pirate those.
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