MacBook Pro Alternatives

[Guest]

Quantumrand - your comment,

"If you do tons of color critical work such as prints, movie, special effects, & CAD then it's quite obvious too: Among all the choices in the article, Macbook Pro is the only one that comes with a Monitor suited for those specific tasks even if your choice of OS is Windows."

...is innaccurate. Mac is not the "only one" ...

The Lenovo W700 and W700ds mobile work stations both feature built-in XRite color calibrators that the user can use to profile the laptop display. In fact, Leonovo features 17" WUXGA Wide Gamut displays thatare rivalled only by Sony.

The Sony VAIO VGN-AW1-1XU/Q is an awesome machine that has an 18.4" XBrite AdobeRGB Color Correct display with 1920 x 1080 resolution.

I understand that other PC manufacturers are stepping up as well to serve photographers and graphic artists. Not making this up - read about here: www.photolaptop.com

Peace...

 

[quantumrand]

Hey Jeff, that wasn't my comment, lol. I was pointing out that the XPS 16 has the best screen for such work. In fact, I believe it is the industry leading screen currently. Also, the 15" Macs aren't nearly up to par screen wise. Only the 17" Macs with the expensive screen upgrade have the "color critical" screens.

 

[BillLake]

Nice article, I did say that you could easily save money if you did not need or want to spend so much on a MacBook Pro 17". The MacBook Pro 15 inch is not as competative in its class as the 17" was when I bought. it should also be noted that while Apple has not lowered the cost of their systems almost everyone else has lowered the cost of their systems. Watch for good sales and you can get areal steal.

 

[bardia]

It's interesting that you downranked the Sony Vio as "plastic" without mentioning its liberal use of magnesium alloy for the lid and screen. Magnesium alloy is lighter, stronger, and less conductive than aluminum. A better and more expensive component than the macbooks use, and on the most fragile part of the laptop.

Seems like a pretty important "built quality" decision to me.

 

[dwhizzle]

[citation][nom]quantumrand[/nom]I was noticing the trend as well, dwhizzle. That's exactly why I wrote the article[/citation]
/applause

Thank you for standing up for the little Windows guys ;p

I have to say that I'm glad you made the point of noting a refurb'd mac; if someone is set on getting a Mac because its cool/better/made of unicorn tears, go for it, but at least save some cash while doing it.

 

[Tomsguiderachel]

[citation][nom]quantumrand[/nom]I was noticing the trend as well, dwhizzle. That's exactly why I wrote the article[/citation]
Oh, I knew you would out yourself eventually

 

[Tomsguiderachel]

[citation][nom]dwhizzle[/nom]Honestly, I have to say something. The more I see of Tom's editors being pro-Mac, the less I want to read the site. I hate to say this, but makes me feel that the site is biased. Seems odd to have an Editor disagreeing so much with an article published on his/her site.[/citation]
Hey Dwhizzle,
It doesn't bother me to have you say that I am pro-mac. I am pro ALL consumer electronics with exception of products with poor design, faulty equipment, or misleading advertising. That part is fine. What I am a little concerned about is why you wrote your opinion in response to this comment. What about this comment is Pro-mac? In reality, in case I didn't make myself clear enough the first time, I was saying that mac users are brainwashed to the point that they can't be bothered to learn a new OS. It is called sarcasm. Do you get it?

For the record, Tom's Guide will never be pro Mac or anti Mac as long as I am the editor. I feel that about 10% of the articles are about Apple computers--which just about reflects the market share of Apple computers. Do you see something different? I'm happy to talk about it.

Thanks for your thoughts,

Rachel Rosmarin
Editor of Tom's Guide

 

[dwhizzle]

[citation][nom]Tomsguiderachel[/nom]Hey Dwhizzle,It doesn't bother me to have you say that I am pro-mac. I am pro ALL consumer electronics with exception of products with poor design, faulty equipment, or misleading advertising. That part is fine. What I am a little concerned about is why you wrote your opinion in response to this comment. What about this comment is Pro-mac? In reality, in case I didn't make myself clear enough the first time, I was saying that mac users are brainwashed to the point that they can't be bothered to learn a new OS. It is called sarcasm. Do you get it?For the record, Tom's Guide will never be pro Mac or anti Mac as long as I am the editor. I feel that about 10% of the articles are about Apple computers--which just about reflects the market share of Apple computers. Do you see something different? I'm happy to talk about it.Thanks for your thoughts,Rachel RosmarinEditor of Tom's Guide[/citation]

Here's my reasoning on it; I'm a customer of yours, plain and simple. I look (and click on) ads, read reviews and check the site very often. When I read a pro-Mac article, it not my cup of tea. Should you or whomever write it? Sure, go for it. It brings in traffic, pays the bills, etc.

You know what I don't enjoy though? Honestly? Having an editor (other than the one who wrote the article) answering comments and taking a contrary stand to the article written. It makes me feel like you disagree/don't stand behind Paul's article. If you want to write a counter-article, feel free. But trolling comments (as I do, I'll admit it) as an editor seems to take away some of the professionalism found in the site.

As far as I'm concerned, I don't mind what ratio of Pc to Mac is followed at Tom's. It's your site, you are free to do as you wish.

As for the condescending attitude of your last paragraph, I don't appreciate it. As you've probably noticed, I'm not a young fanboy of some type who looks to start a flame war; I was merely quoting one of your comments because I was too lazy to string them all together. I'm tired of having to bicker back and forth with an Editor of a tech website.

Consider this my last post, and last visit to this site. Thank you for your time.

 

[BillLake]

Hopefully all the people who read this article were some that read the article I wrote on the MacBook Pro 17". For the record I would like to agree with Rachel. I may use a MacBook Pro laptop but I have Windows Desktops. I have a Shuttle SX38P2 and SX48P2 because stacked they take up the same space as one tower. I have a custom built PC that I use for testing. For those that can't believe a MacBook, MacBook Air, or MacBook Pro is worth it. Let us actually talk about it.

Claims of IT and performance are interesting but my MacBook Pro has a Nvidia 9600m GT, no not as fast as say the 98000 but fast enough for most games at high resolution. It has DDR3 memory so it does pretty well there, it has a decent HDD at 320 GB and it is pretty fast due to the nVidia 9400 chipset. As for IT, it has the UNIX core of BSD and you really have to be joking that a great IT person does not use UNIX of any kind. You could easily use Linux on many of the laptops in this article but you also could find issues, like WIFI and audio troublesome with new versions of hardware. This is getting better but is still an issue. So out of the box, UNIX with a great GUI and stability. Finally, if your an IT guy, loading windows, which you almost certainly have several copies around is free. If you work for a big company your almost certain to have a site license so again you do not pay a dime for it.

Some are claiming why a Apple for photo editing, this again shows a lack of experiance trying the software on an Apple. OS X comes with a very nice photo editing program for free. So maybe many of the people doing stuff on the fly are just using the built in software. Also you forgot to mention the cost of adding CS4 to either box. Then there is the history thing. You use windows because that is what you like and are used to. Lots of people in arts, music, photography and film used Apples to do their work. Even when they were not Intel based. So they are comfortable with how it work and that is the main thing.

Quality builds and specifications. There are some great laptops out there, price is being driven down by a competitive market. Dell has a super screen in the XPS Studio 16, it is not only an LED backlit but it is tricolor backlit so it is one of the best on the market. you can also say this HDD is bigger than that one, or this GPU is faster than that on, and so on but really what matters is can it drive the screen. I noticed people like to blast Apple for using Nvidia 9600m GT but then they let the ATI 3650 in many others slide. Why is that? is the 3650 a better gaming performer than the 9600? Are you really going to put more than 320GB of data on your laptop? The hardware is just hardware, pick what works for you and try to actually use it, it might be that you do not even need a dedicated video card, big HDD, or 8 GB of RAM.

Well, I could go on all day about the Apple verse Windows thing but the truth is people will hate Apple because they charge more for the same hardware (now don't go and try to say well the MSI has a nVidia 9800 and cost less, we know that, the Sony cost more and has a weaker solution to but comparatively Apple does charge more). Sometimes that charge is fairly small and some times it is huge and some times you get what you pay for. I like Apple laptops because I enjoy using them and they work exceptionally well for me but I also have multiple Windows desktops. This is what works for me and again use what works for you and try to remember that you should actually really use something before you say it doesn't work. There are lots of people still using Pentium 4 based computers and doing so everyday with no problems getting their work done.

 

[techguy890]

[citation][nom]Tomsguiderachel[/nom]So, in some ways, it might be "too late" for all those graphics/artsy/media types to ever learn windows. They have no choice but to continue to use Macs, because who has time to learn a new OS? This is an interesting point, but it doesn't really explain the growth in marketshare that apple has seen in the last couple of years.[/citation]

Wow.

Truly, I find this unbelievable and to be quite honest, I smell a troll. I say this because I find it hard to believe and editor for an enthusiast website is saying these words. I understand you're referring to certain type of clientele, but you must understand that you're perpetuating the "non-IT" justification for IT ignorance. IT ignorance is exactly why Apple is enjoying a 10% market share by taking advantage of soccer moms, the average +40 white-collar, and the random ill-informed tech site editor.

Maybe I missed the memo, but this site has certainly taken a turn for the worse by perpetuating IT ignorance by championing Apple's PC's. You do the community that helped built this website a great disservice by continuing to publish this trash.

I’ve worked in the government sector for 13 years now as an IT engineer and I always find this arguments entertaining. The only time you’ll find a Mac is in an Audio/Video department and these are either stand-alone machines, or on their own private network safe from any harm. Furthermore, those Macs run in the neighborhood of $5k and up to get all the necessary functionality those guys require.

It’s a sad day for me, now that I’ve come to realize that the site I’ve been going to for nearly a decade has lost all credibility to me. If I wanted to read about how to build a PC out of a paper bag and some chewing gum, or overclock a Pentium D to 4ghz, this was the place to go. Now the front page is riddled with bull crap about Macs being a viable alternative to Windows. I created an account today just to post this last testament in regards to this ridiculous and pointless (to the true tech geeks and system builders) article. I’ll be deleting THG from my bookmarks after I submit this. So long, Tom’s Hardware Guide.

 

[bardia]

The above comment sounds like I wrote it a year or two ago. I definitely was all about going Apple Laptop + PC Desktop. I've been doing it since the G4. But despite all these new Apple evangelists, I'm slipping away from Apple as the price differentiation gets larger and larger. The 12" Powerbook was amazing value in its day. Comparible 12" Centrino based Sony's were $2200.

But with Apple's recent marketing success, their prices have increased 50% compared to other companies which are building with the same hardware/quality.

I agree that the Apple's are nice machines btw, but I'm feeling slightly hostile given that this article was written with a certain "well, if you can't afford a mace..." tone. Sometimes *cough*bluray*cough* the PC's are simply the better quality machines at any price. And yet THEY'RE CHEAPER. It's funny, because this would be a good comparison if some of these PC's were $2500, but they're not.

I CAN afford a mac. I chose not to get one due to the lack of value and features in the 17" class. Also, keep in mind the Sony FW came out in July. Apple finally got the new 17" out the door late February. Over and over again this article states that "well if you're on a budget" or something like that, and so it's obvious that the author just doesn't believe that the other machines are in the same class.

Sony was DOMINATING Apple in price AND QUALITY for SIX SOLID MONTHS. Sure, things have evened up slightly now (the difference mainly being price), but Apple is playing catch up.

 

[Tomsguiderachel]

[citation][nom]dwhizzle[/nom]Here's my reasoning on it; I'm a customer of yours, plain and simple. I look (and click on) ads, read reviews and check the site very often. When I read a pro-Mac article, it not my cup of tea. Should you or whomever write it? Sure, go for it. It brings in traffic, pays the bills, etc.You know what I don't enjoy though? Honestly? Having an editor (other than the one who wrote the article) answering comments and taking a contrary stand to the article written. It makes me feel like you disagree/don't stand behind Paul's article. If you want to write a counter-article, feel free. But trolling comments (as I do, I'll admit it) as an editor seems to take away some of the professionalism found in the site. As far as I'm concerned, I don't mind what ratio of Pc to Mac is followed at Tom's. It's your site, you are free to do as you wish.As for the condescending attitude of your last paragraph, I don't appreciate it. As you've probably noticed, I'm not a young fanboy of some type who looks to start a flame war; I was merely quoting one of your comments because I was too lazy to string them all together. I'm tired of having to bicker back and forth with an Editor of a tech website. Consider this my last post, and last visit to this site. Thank you for your time.[/citation]
Dwhizzle,
I'm very sorry you feel that way. I'm simply trying to figure out which aspect of my previous comment (the one about Mac users not willing to switch to learn Windows) seemed contrary to Paul Escallier's article. If you feel I'm writing comments that aren't in support of my own writers, I agree with you it would be a problem. But please, even if it is your last comment ever, explain to me what I said that was dismissive of the article we are commenting on. Otherwise, I'm definitely the dark here.

Rachel

 

[Tomsguiderachel]

[citation][nom]techguy890[/nom]Wow.Truly, I find this unbelievable and to be quite honest, I smell a troll. I say this because I find it hard to believe and editor for an enthusiast website is saying these words. I understand you're referring to certain type of clientele, but you must understand that you're perpetuating the "non-IT" justification for IT ignorance. IT ignorance is exactly why Apple is enjoying a 10% market share by taking advantage of soccer moms, the average +40 white-collar, and the random ill-informed tech site editor.Maybe I missed the memo, but this site has certainly taken a turn for the worse by perpetuating IT ignorance by championing Apple's PC's. You do the community that helped built this website a great disservice by continuing to publish this trash.I’ve worked in the government sector for 13 years now as an IT engineer and I always find this arguments entertaining. The only time you’ll find a Mac is in an Audio/Video department and these are either stand-alone machines, or on their own private network safe from any harm. Furthermore, those Macs run in the neighborhood of $5k and up to get all the necessary functionality those guys require.It’s a sad day for me, now that I’ve come to realize that the site I’ve been going to for nearly a decade has lost all credibility to me. If I wanted to read about how to build a PC out of a paper bag and some chewing gum, or overclock a Pentium D to 4ghz, this was the place to go. Now the front page is riddled with bull crap about Macs being a viable alternative to Windows. I created an account today just to post this last testament in regards to this ridiculous and pointless (to the true tech geeks and system builders) article. I’ll be deleting THG from my bookmarks after I submit this. So long, Tom’s Hardware Guide.[/citation]
TechGuy,
Sorry to see you go. However, one thing you might want to consider is that Tom's Hardware (www.tomshardware.com) is still the place to go for the traditional PC enthusiast stuff you've loved for years. It is clear to me that Tom's Guide (www.tomsguide.com) isn't for you, and so I understand where you are coming from. I can't make Tom's Guide be what it is not---it definitely IS a place for the general consumer, not the IT enthusiast. I appreciate your honesty.

Rachel Rosmarin,
Editor of Tom's Guide

 

[quantumrand]

This is getting pretty adversarial...How about we get back on point a bit?

"Which alternative would you choose?"

I think I'd have to go with the MSI GT627. Being a gamer, that 9800m GT really stands out to me, and the price tag is within my range. If I had a bit extra to spend, though, I'd go with the XPS 16. That RGPLED screen looks delicious.

 

[Tomsguiderachel]

[citation][nom]quantumrand[/nom]This is getting pretty adversarial...How about we get back on point a bit?"Which alternative would you choose?"I think I'd have to go with the MSI GT627. Being a gamer, that 9800m GT really stands out to me, and the price tag is within my range. If I had a bit extra to spend, though, I'd go with the XPS 16. That RGPLED screen looks delicious.[/citation]
Thanks Quantumrand.
Do you think this product line (in Moonlight White, naturally) is configurable to become a MacBook Pro alternative?
http/www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_can_series.do?storeName=computer_store&category=notebooks&a1=Category&v1=Performance+and+entertainment&series_name=dv6t_series

 

[BillLake]

If your going with HP try the HDX 16, it was one of my canidates before I picked my 17" unit. It cost more if you upgrade the screen to 1920x1080 but I really like the hidef of that over the odd size of 1366x768. They also have a backlit keyboard now and even a nice deal on it but again it does cost more but I thought the unlit keyboard was decent, not great but decent.

 

[Tomsguiderachel]

[citation][nom]billlake[/nom]If your going with HP try the HDX 16, it was one of my canidates before I picked my 17" unit. It cost more if you upgrade the screen to 1920x1080 but I really like the hidef of that over the odd size of 1366x768. They also have a backlit keyboard now and even a nice deal on it but again it does cost more but I thought the unlit keyboard was decent, not great but decent.[/citation]
Yeah, Bill, the screen is definitely better on the HDX16, but it only comes in black Also, it seems thicker than the others. Weight is a bit more too, but thanks for the input.

 

[quantumrand]

[citation][nom]Tomsguiderachel[/nom]Thanks Quantumrand.Do you think this product line (in Moonlight White, naturally) is configurable to become a MacBook Pro alternative?http/www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/ [...] v6t_series[/citation]

I have to agree with Bill on this. I did look into the HP laptops for the article, but the add-ons that made them most comparable to MacBooks added significantly to the price, ie $300 for a 4650 video card. Also, the screens for the more affordable models could not be upgraded beyond 1366x768, which in my opinion just isnt acceptable. As a rule of thumb, I wont recommend anything with less that 900 horizontal lines.

 

[BillLake]

[citation][nom]quantumrand[/nom]I have to agree with Bill on this. I did look into the HP laptops for the article, but the add-ons that made them most comparable to MacBooks added significantly to the price, ie $300 for a 4650 video card. Also, the screens for the more affordable models could not be upgraded beyond 1366x768, which in my opinion just isnt acceptable. As a rule of thumb, I wont recommend anything with less that 900 horizontal lines.[/citation]


Did you look at the HP HDX 16? It is very compareable and with discounts can be had for about $1400 or $1700 with no discount. It comes with the following

Intel P8700 2.53 GHz
4 GB RAM (free upgrade now)
320 GB HDD
DVD RW
1920x1080 16" LCD
Backlit keyboard
802.11n
bluetooth
Vista 64 home premium
powered eSATA
12 cell battery

it does weigh more but that is the cost of saving money

 

[Guest]

PC vs. Mac aside, while this article has good points, the author should be comparing the Macbook to these units or going with Business units from the other manufacturers. They have taken the time compose an article based on laptop specs, but are trying to compare Economy class to Luxury class. and as already pointed out there is no real mention of the the crap/bloat ware that seems to be mandatory on PC laptops.