Man Fined $1.5M for Leaked Mario Game Upload

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[citation][nom]VampyrByte[/nom]Rhino13. I buy the PC games i like. I am one who may pirate a game first (or download a legal demo) to get a taste of a game. Most of the time it is the multiplayer experience that i buy a game for.Essentially it boils down to the fact that i buy games i enjoy. There is a contrinuing trend that these come from certain developers.Those devleopers that continually churn out the same old crap month after month (EA, anyone) can rot in hell for all i care.[/citation]

Yeah, try going to a cinema and promising to pay after the movie (provided you enjoy it).
 
[citation][nom]djackson_dba[/nom]I am a developer and my livelyhood (the ability to feed and house my family) is dependant on software sales.[/citation]
Do your job well then. People who do their job poorly lose their job. If you make good software, people will buy it. You will get paid.

Off the record, I am sure you do your job very well and i am not directly questioning your personal ability to do whatever it is you do. Its not individuals i have a problem with, its the fat cat corporations that think they can bully us into spending over the top for their products.
 
[citation][nom]VampyrByte[/nom]Based on your ideolgy, if a product is worth the money then people will pay for it. Now lets presume you have 2 choices:Buy the game for £40, or Pirate the game for £0.Now say it isnt worth £40. I have no choice to say "Hey but i only think its worth £15", hand over £15 and walk away with my shiny new game. No, i only have those 2 choices. The game isnt worth £40, for whatever reason, so I am left with only one choice. Rip it off thepiratebay.While Theft is not a very good market indicator (because you cant really measure conventional theft, for many reasons, in that way can you?) This actually is a great market indicator.Piracy shows games are too expensive. Yes some of us will only pirate games, but most of us will chooseto BUY games when we can afford to, and on games we really want.If you think the entire human race will just run in and rip you off all the time, take a look outside. People do BUY things from shops, but when they dont think its worth their money or time, they walk away, or pirate it in the case of Digital Media.[/citation]
There are many reasons a person steals. You could always do what I do. If the game is not worth $40, then I wait a while for the price to drop. I paid $30 for COD as I could not justify $60 when it first came out. No one steals something because it is worthless. In reality, I don't really care what motivates a thief and I don't lose any sleep when one is punished.
 
I have to be honest I'd never thout about RIAA working here. But I have to ask has anyone ever been swayed by a post? If the RIAA is here I think they're wasting their time.

You know I'd just like to see the quality of PC games go up. And I know that if pirates started purchasing games that would happen.

[To Vamp's arguement: I know they would only be purchasing one or two, not the hundreds they pirate. Nobody can aford that many. But it would still help.]

But hey, just like any RIAA guys I'm not gonna get anywhere either am I 🙁
 
Well I don't know who is right or wrong. I do pay for my games, all of them. No I don't think that most games are worth the money they ask for. So a lot of my games are used(which come from a whole other crowd of gamers I truly hate). Platnum hits and what not are a big part of my collection. Mostly what I am getting at is "I am a gamer". As a gamer "I support my hobbie". If you are a gamer, and you loved your hobbie as all gamers should. You would support the ppl that bring you the joy of your hobbie. But do what you want, not like i care what you really do with your life.

the messed up words of leafman... I'm sorry :)
 
[citation][nom]VampyrByte[/nom]Do your job well then. People who do their job poorly lose their job. If you make good software, people will buy it. You will get paid.Off the record, I am sure you do your job very well and i am not directly questioning your personal ability to do whatever it is you do. Its not individuals i have a problem with, its the fat cat corporations that think they can bully us into spending over the top for their products.[/citation]
I can only measure the success of a product based on its sales and feedback from support. There is no other measure. When someone steals something I have worked on, it affects my earnings pretty directly. It affects me regardless of how cool my product is. If you have not spent time working in development, especially in game development, it is very difficult to have a feel for all the effort, long hours, stress and pure pride involved in this kind of work. It is a brutal process for developers and very few get rich writing this kind of software. When someone uploads a game to a public server, it directly affects the money that the programmer gets regardless of whether they did a good job or not. If the game sucks, leave it to languish and market forces will do their thing to change the standard of what is turned out. Piracy will do nothing to lower the cost of software. If anything, it works to drive it up. Sorry if I have out too strong on this matter, but it really comes down to food on the table for me.
 
I think a person who steals/pirates material is doing something that at least many people agree is a wrongful act. Personally I think it has all been exagerated. Think back to the 80's or even before. Did anyone you know ever record a friends tape, or cd, maybe even 8 track, VHS, lol? I think the competitive blank recordable media market tells us just how prevelent this conduct was. A huge problem with the current enforcement and punishment is that it is rediculously unfair. 150K? Thats the end of his life finacially speaking. Did the crime warant that punishment? Really, are you serious?
 
@djackson_dba
I must agree. He stole it and then uploaded. It could have been even worse if he tried to sell it.
As far as I know the overall hype around piracy is a bit wrong. Of course I could be the one who's wrong, but let's say you want to buy some tool (hammer for example). You visit different shops and look for the cheapest one on the internet. As a client you obviously want the cheapest one available or maybe even for free. The only thing you're worried about is quality. You shouldn't think whether this shop is legal or not or where they got those hammers. Of course it's always a good idea to find more information before buying.
In my opinion a lot of energy goes into wrong place.
Finding sites where people upload and re-upload things shouldn't be hard and it also shouldn't be hard to close those down. First comes the warning to remove all the content. If this is not followed, ISP has right to close the site down for good. Any further attempts to get site back online ends with a fine or something similar.
Sites what link to uploads will eventually die out if there's no new content.
However this is not where problem ends. Rapidshare, Megaupload and other files are still holding the files.
It's really hard to get around this problem, but I believe if you force every member to register and modify the system to show let's say username or something when you download it makes it very easy to track people who upload pirated software, games, movies, music and so on. Then companies can contact file-sharing sites and give them the username and every file uploaded by that user will be removed and fined if necessary.
It's even possible to create an automatic account without user ever knowing about it. This keeps files organized and under one name. If there's a problem all you need to do is report the user and files are removed.
Then there are P2P programs. What can I say? They're already able to monitor things and probably tag the most active uploaders. Just keep this up and bring in new forces whenever possible and I'm sure P2P will die once overall internet is more or less clean.
Of course there still could exist some underground places, but in big picture piracy as such should die.

I see only one problem - money. RS, MU and others are probably VERY happy when someone uploads a big game because first they need a premium account to do so and people who want to download without limitations also need premium. They earn A LOT.
This is probably the one reason why file-sharing sites aren't very co-operative against piracy, because as I've said it's actually quite easy to create a system to tag an uploader.
There are flaws in my ideas. For example if there's one user, one IP then how hard can it be to use a proxy, VPN, server or w/e else and create another user, upload, another user, upload, etc. Only few people can do that and those are people who are real pirates. You, me or any other person can't do that or at least it would require a lot of effort. So, this should at least stop re-uploading which leaves us with official source and from there on it should be easy enough to get things removed.

What about leakers like these? Continue. I see no reason why one should do so and Nintendo nailed it. I'm not aware how hard or troublesome it was and I'm also not aware how expensive this whole find-the-leaker-operation could be, but they did it and I'm sure they can do it again.

What do you get out of all this (if piracy ends)? If people buy more games, software, movies from different sites (Gamespot, Steam, etc) then there will be typical competition who gets more customers. They'll start flowing with the general market. One lowers prices, one makes great special offer weekends, etc, etc.
Basically, the more customers shops have the more they can lower their prices and that makes you, me and everyone else a happy client. There's a new game, shops pay full price and since they have so many customers they can lower the original price considerably and that means pretty much everyone will get their game if they want to.
Of course I'm not sure if the changes would be this dramatic, but it would be nice.

Competing with piracy? Never.
Uploading = Selling stolen/faked tickets to concert
Downloading = The short end of the stick. You probably wont even get inside with these stolen tickets. After all, they're tagged with unique ID and and if something's missing they'll know about it.

I'm sure everything can be done with a bit of help & support from everyone.
 
[citation][nom]rodney_ws[/nom]Sweet Jesus! This makes the Gestapo sound like a bunch of 4th grade hall monitors.[/citation]

Ya... 4th grade hall monitors were a pain in the a$$.
 
[citation][nom]VampyrByte[/nom]Piracy only costs the owners money if the said pirate would have gone out and bought the game instead. It's wrong to say it "costs developers money" it costs them a sum total of £0. They simply Don't make as much money as they would have based on the presumption all pirates are sat on mounds of glorious cash and are just pirating to spite the big cat. This is not Cost. This is a Lack of revenue and that is completly diffrent.Piracy can also not be considerd Theft, in any way. Take my analogy here.If i stole your DVD, you would no longer have it, and i would!If i copied your DVD, you would have your DVD, and i would have a copy of it.Piracy is the later. The only person who had to actually PAY (ie, "cost"), was me for the DVD-R to copy to.Developers and Publishers need to quit their moaning about piracy, and compete with it instead.[/citation]


Oppurtunity cost. That's why its theft.
 
[citation][nom]leafman420[/nom]If you over charge for a product you made, could that be theft????[/citation]

You can't overcharge for a product as the BUYER determines the price he is willing to pay for a product.

Piracy is wrong and all I see here are people making excuses for their illegal behavior.
 
Kind of sucks to giving all his accounts information and Hard Drives up. Maybe he is rich or maybe their making up this 1.5 million figure up to scare pirates.
 
[citation][nom]zoemayne[/nom]Kind of sucks to giving all his accounts information and Hard Drives up. Maybe he is rich or maybe their making up this 1.5 million figure up to scare pirates.[/citation]
I'm sure that when they had enough evidence, they got a warrant and that is why he had to give up the information on his account and hard drives. Pretty standard investigation stuff.
 
So if you found the recipe for say Campbell's soup and started making it yourself instead of buying them, would you call that pirating? Copying the recipe is like copying the software. Making it is like burning it to media. Right, right?
 
[citation][nom]fracture[/nom]So if you found the recipe for say Campbell's soup and started making it yourself instead of buying them, would you call that pirating? Copying the recipe is like copying the software. Making it is like burning it to media. Right, right?[/citation]
If the recipe for Campbells soup is proprietary and you post the recipe to the internet and it affects Campbell's revenue, you might have an analogy that works here. There is no law against making your own soup, not sure if that is in all countries ;-). There is no law that says you cannot write your own game for your own use that looks exactly like Crysis. That is where your analogy takes me. There are plenty of laws that say you cannot write your own game exactly like Crysis and distribute it for free or profit. This guy did not provide a Campbell's soup recipe. He provided actual Campbell's soup (finished product) in their can on his own and gave it out for free. It does not matter if it cost Nintendo 150 million dollars or 10 dollars, it is theft of a product they own.
 
[citation][nom]VampyrByte[/nom]Developers and Publishers need to quit their moaning about piracy, and compete with it instead.[/citation]

That all sound fine and dandy, but how do you go about doing that?

I have a feeling eventually all software will be GNU. Not sure about the music and movie industry. It could be catastropic for them.
 
[citation][nom]fafner[/nom]That all sound fine and dandy, but how do you go about doing that?I have a feeling eventually all software will be GNU. Not sure about the music and movie industry. It could be catastropic for them.[/citation]
I have written software under GNU for things I wrote for myself and shared. If I wrote everthing that way, my family would starve. I don't see all software going GNU. Folks have to make a living and this software is a major investment in time and energy. If all game software goes GNU, you will only have games like the ones you see that come packaged with Linux. Nothing wrong with them, but they ain't top shelf.
 
[citation][nom]rantoc[/nom]Kinda curious, how many posters here work for RIAA or similar trying to sway the masses ?[/citation]

I'll be really surprise if you can find one. Almost the entire readership on this site consists of 15 yo punks who have a gamepad up their asses all day overclocking their machines till they explode.
 
I'm a huge gaming fan. I have a very large collection of legit titles. I will probably own New Super Mario Bros., Wii Mario Kart, Mario Galaxy, and Wii Punch-Out at some point. Despite the fact that I have a Wii and several games for it, I don't own those four for one good reason. Despite the fact that two of the three have been out a long time (in gaming terms), none of them have dropped in price. I buy $15-25 dollar Wii games very often. How often do I buy $40-60 Wii games... NEVER. So, despite the fact that I support what Nintendo is trying to do, they've proven themselves, that piracy would drop exponentially if they priced their games more realistically. And, I would have bought them all by now, too, sending more profit Nintendo's way. But hey, It's only fair that an honest consumer pays twice as much because of a dishonest one, right?
 
[citation][nom]ryanhell078[/nom]I think a person who steals/pirates material is doing something that at least many people agree is a wrongful act. Personally I think it has all been exagerated. Think back to the 80's or even before. Did anyone you know ever record a friends tape, or cd, maybe even 8 track, VHS, lol? I think the competitive blank recordable media market tells us just how prevelent this conduct was. A huge problem with the current enforcement and punishment is that it is rediculously unfair. 150K? Thats the end of his life finacially speaking. Did the crime warant that punishment? Really, are you serious?[/citation]

That comparison has been made and I was under the impression that it was universally understood as bad these days. The copying done in the 80s (VHS/Audio cassettes) was highly inefficient, and could actually be directly tied to blank tape sales. Therefore by putting a small tax/fee into the price of the cassettes they were able to offset the losses caused by theft.

So, you and your budy copy a couple of tapes, maybe 2-400 a year if you are hardcore into doing this (and buying a TON of cassettes btw.) Now, I want you to think how long it would take for you to illegally download 400 albums? 1 week? Maybe? And that's with only maybe 1 hour of actual work, your computer does the rest of the work.
 
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