New York Auto Show 2024: here’s the one vehicle I'd buy over all EVs

[admin]

At the New York Auto Show 2024, I got to check out all the new 2024 electric vehicles, but I'm not likely to buy any of them. Instead, the plug-in hybrid 2024 Toyota RAV4 Prime is my favorite vehicle that I got to see. Here's why.

New York Auto Show 2024: here’s the one vehicle I'd buy over all EVs : Read more

 

[Fact Checks]

Fact ✓ #1: Tesla Model Y is CHEAPER than RAV4. Tesla Model Y starts at $36,490 (after $7,500 point of sale tax credit), according to ill-informed author the RAV4 is much more expensive at $43,000 😂
Fact ✓ #2: Plug-in gas engines are very inefficient and wasteful of batteries with only 2 miles of range per kWh. EVs get 4-5 miles per kWh.
Fact ✓ #3: Tesla has plenty of Superchargers all over the world. Nobody with a Tesla has any limits on traveling.

 

[jbc77]

Fact ✓ #1: Tesla Model Y is CHEAPER than RAV4. Tesla Model Y starts at $36,490 (after $7,500 point of sale tax credit), according to ill-informed author the RAV4 is much more expensive at $43,000 😂
Fact ✓ #2: Plug-in gas engines are very inefficient and wasteful of batteries with only 2 miles of range per kWh. EVs get 4-5 miles per kWh.
Fact ✓ #3: Tesla has plenty of Superchargers all over the world. Nobody with a Tesla has any limits on traveling.

Your “fact no. 3” is in fact wrong. They a trio over a large rural expanse or even through smaller cities without an interstate highway, not in California. It’s an EV (including Tesla) charging desert.

 

[CinDenver]

As a RAV4 Prime owner I can confirm that your points about the car are correct and even slightly understated. I’m getting a 48 mile range with EV mode. I charge the vehicle fully in about 8.5 hours in my garage using the 120v charger that came with the vehicle. Living in Colorado, and going up to the mountains regularly, I have used the hybrid mode which is primarily the gas engine. It’s been fine. The range with gas is 540 miles. I think you’d have to be nuts to try to do that drive in the winter in a Tesla or any EV only vehicle because of the risk of a storm or five hour traffic jam on I-70. At times you get stuck not moving or behind a row of 3 plows doing 25 mph with no way to pass them. The gas engine gives me the security I need to make the drive without worry. Same thing for going to a trailhead for a 14er - it can take longer and be more challenging than expected and you do not want to get stuck where there is no cell service.
Overall the vehicle has been great. I do wish it had a few more amenities, and the visibility is okay, not awesome. I’d give the vehicle an 8.7 out of ten, all around.

 

[R3dB3ast1300]

Fact ✓ Have fun waiting for your Tesla to charge while I continue in my trip for as long as I want.

And let's not forget issues of shorten battery life during hot summers and cold winters.

What is a fact is that gas infrastructure already exists and it only makes sense to use hybrids that sip gas and charge their batteries on the fly.

Hybridizing all vehicles could break our foreign oil independence and use the existing infrastructure we already have in place.

Hybrids are the only design that currently makes sense. I have no problem with full EVs, buy one if you want to - It's good to have options. I have a problem with them being mandated across the board.

 

[geemymd]

Fact ✓ #1: Tesla Model Y is CHEAPER than RAV4. Tesla Model Y starts at $36,490 (after $7,500 point of sale tax credit), according to ill-informed author the RAV4 is much more expensive at $43,000 😂
Fact ✓ #2: Plug-in gas engines are very inefficient and wasteful of batteries with only 2 miles of range per kWh. EVs get 4-5 miles per kWh.
Fact ✓ #3: Tesla has plenty of Superchargers all over the world. Nobody with a Tesla has any limits on traveling.

AWD vs AWD the Model Y LRAWD is 47990
tax credit is subject to tax liability
RAV4 prime has $6500 tax credit when leased.
117mpge vs 94mpg isn only 20% difference on efficiency not a factor 2.5x
also high mileage toyotas keep a low depreciation thanks to their reliability. value for a 2021 RAV4 prime vs 2021 is about 5k higher 30k vs 25k despite cheaper MSRP in 2021. Used Tesla value is much volatile because of the constant price changes. they used to have low depreciation when new Teslas had 6 months backorder. this era is over
phev used ~40miles daily (100% electric) makes a lot of sense. you can also easily make best use of the battery (80%) daily whereas a 300 miles EV driven 30 miles a day will degrade because of age, way before it does ~1000 cycles.
also scaling lets say over 50+% of world car sales to PHEV would be way more manageable than same number o BEV
RAV4 prime battery has a longer 10 year/150k warranty if you need a battery replacement
long range EVs make a lot sense for people who drive 150-200milea a day, like Uber drivers
35-40mpg highway is not more expensive than supercharging
if RAV4 prime is used 80-90% in EV mode it's lifetime emissions will be lower than an 80kWh Model Y LR

Ultimately both are solid choices and it comes down to personal preferences convenience of gas when you're away from home, and traditional car vs hypothetical FSD/robotaxi and lack of physical controls

 

[mlambert890]

Fact ✓ Have fun waiting for your Tesla to charge while I continue in my trip for as long as I want.

And let's not forget issues of shorten battery life during hot summers and cold winters.

What is a fact is that gas infrastructure already exists and it only makes sense to use hybrids that sip gas and charge their batteries on the fly.

Hybridizing all vehicles could break our foreign oil independence and use the existing infrastructure we already have in place.

Hybrids are the only design that currently makes sense. I have no problem with full EVs, buy one if you want to - It's good to have options. I have a problem with them being mandated across the board.

Ridiculous FUD. Nothing is being "mandated" regardless of how incessantly culture warriors scream that. Just another fake straw man used to "animate the base"

Gas mileage drops in the winter also, but people just keep burning and filling.

The fact is the vast majority of people drive less than 50 miles per day, and take ONE road trip a year that's AT MOST 500 miles. This is the statistical reality.

So while a PHEV with 50 miles of ACTUAL electric range, that ACTUALLY gets plugged in (most PHEV owners do NOT bother plugging them in, per the data) is the same as a BEV functionally, that also means all of your BS FUD against BEVs is just that.... BS FUD

300 mile range EVs allow you to drive FOUR HOURS before stopping to charge. For the vast majority of people, they aren't doing the Cannonball Run and peeing in jars. Four hours is a decent time before stopping to have lunch, stretch and use the bathroom. That's more than enough time to charge.

The Model Y was the NUMBER 3 best selling car in the US last year. Number 2 if you take out the gas guzzling pickup monstrosities Americans are obsessed with. So it's idiotic to continue to pretend that "hybrids are the ONLY solution that makes sense!"

BEVs are demonstrably fine for most drivers. Thats why sales continue to grow despite the fossil industry and NADA continuing to spew FUD that the media continues to amplify, including Tom's ironically with articles like this because the bias is so personal for so many that are just addicted to combusting fuel. Each day more and more people buy a BEV and realize it's all BS. That's why EIGHTY FIVE percent never go back to ANY kind of ICE.

 

[mlambert890]

AWD vs AWD the Model Y LRAWD is 47990
tax credit is subject to tax liability
RAV4 prime has $6500 tax credit when leased.
117mpge vs 94mpg isn only 20% difference on efficiency not a factor 2.5x
also high mileage toyotas keep a low depreciation thanks to their reliability. value for a 2021 RAV4 prime vs 2021 is about 5k higher 30k vs 25k despite cheaper MSRP in 2021. Used Tesla value is much volatile because of the constant price changes. they used to have low depreciation when new Teslas had 6 months backorder. this era is over
phev used ~40miles daily (100% electric) makes a lot of sense. you can also easily make best use of the battery (80%) daily whereas a 300 miles EV driven 30 miles a day will degrade because of age, way before it does ~1000 cycles.
also scaling lets say over 50+% of world car sales to PHEV would be way more manageable than same number o BEV
RAV4 prime battery has a longer 10 year/150k warranty if you need a battery replacement
long range EVs make a lot sense for people who drive 150-200milea a day, like Uber drivers
35-40mpg highway is not more expensive than supercharging
if RAV4 prime is used 80-90% in EV mode it's lifetime emissions will be lower than an 80kWh Model Y LR

Ultimately both are solid choices and it comes down to personal preferences convenience of gas when you're away from home, and traditional car vs hypothetical FSD/robotaxi and lack of physical controls

"Lifetime emissions" will most certainly NOT be lower than the Model Y because it will ALWAYS combust fuel. I get that suddenly every ICE fanatic is an environmentalist who not only accepts the reality of carbon footprint, but is now an expert who supposedly cares deeply about it, but this is just a lie.

It takes a Model Y only around 35,000 miles to surpass the manufacturing carbon deficit against even the MOST EFFICIENT ICE (38MPG)

A PHEV, on the other hand, ALSO HAS A BATTERY so it's also starting with a deficit.

Leaving aside that the majority of PHEV owners don't bother plugging them in, which regardless of what is claimed on forums is what the data has shown, even if "90% of the driving is on battery", that means 10% is burning fuel spewing carbon and carcinogens into the atmosphere.

So obviously over a LIFETIME that is going to surpass the small initial deficit between the PHEV and the BEV. And as a bonus, the BEV will never spew toxic fumes into the air.

I get that people are fiercely defensive of their PHEV purchase, but this need to prove that somehow BEVs are "worse for the environment" or "unusable for most people" or any other confirmation bias BS the media is gleefully amplifying lately, is infuriating.

You want a PHEV whatever. But if you use garbage ICE fanatic FUD to "prove" that it was the only sensible decision, because something is fundamentally wrong with BEV, you become part of the problem, and that includes Tom's which has been on a NADA approved MISSION on this topic.