Newbie: how do I know what's important?

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I'm new here, but have posted several times recently concerning my
impending purchase of a digital compact camera, probably either a Konica
Minolta Dimage Z3 or a Panasonic Lumix FZ3.

The point of this post is to ask you all: how do I know what's
important? I have some past experience of 35mm SLR photography, but I am
a complete novice when it comes to digital photography. So I read
magazines, newsgroups and other reviews, hoping to learn. My most
difficult problem - I expect this applies to all newbies! - is how to
know whether some feature (or drawback) of a particular camera will
matter to me or not.

For example, the Z3 offers manual focus, but the FZ3 does not. Given
that I like to take (some) low-light photos, where focussing can be a
problem, should I worry about the lack of manual focus in the FZ3?

I suppose what I'd really like is to hire a Z3 and an FZ3, and try them
both out, but I don't think there is such a service available (in the
UK). So I rely on magazines and other reviews, and on you lot out there!
Any advice for me?

Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

ok ok ok

I've resisted all temptations to reply.

First a couple of things you should be aware of:
- not all reviews are totally independent
- even if they are photography is very subjective (I guess you know this
from your 35mm experience. A great image for one person is abhorent to
another)
- you are your own best judge
- it is your purchase and your responibility

(in the mountaineering community one of the first rules is: you are totally
responsible for our own actions, inactions or omissions - the same holds
true for most things in life including kit purchases)

Hokay! So what next?

I went against the flow of reviews, raves, marketing initiatives and
whatever and bought a Canon S1 IS. I like it

Whether you will like it or not is also subjective.

Do I recommend it?

But of course!

It may be a case of making your first purchase naively so that your second
purchase will not only be based on information but also experience

Thus spake Aerticeus


"Pattern-chaser" <pattern-chaser@merrick.britishlibrary.net> wrote in
message newsomdnehL67NTZDPcRVnyjw@pipex.net...
> I'm new here, but have posted several times recently concerning my
> impending purchase of a digital compact camera, probably either a Konica
> Minolta Dimage Z3 or a Panasonic Lumix FZ3.
>
> The point of this post is to ask you all: how do I know what's important?
> I have some past experience of 35mm SLR photography, but I am a complete
> novice when it comes to digital photography. So I read magazines,
> newsgroups and other reviews, hoping to learn. My most difficult problem -
> I expect this applies to all newbies! - is how to know whether some
> feature (or drawback) of a particular camera will matter to me or not.
>
> For example, the Z3 offers manual focus, but the FZ3 does not. Given that
> I like to take (some) low-light photos, where focussing can be a problem,
> should I worry about the lack of manual focus in the FZ3?
>
> I suppose what I'd really like is to hire a Z3 and an FZ3, and try them
> both out, but I don't think there is such a service available (in the UK).
> So I rely on magazines and other reviews, and on you lot out there! Any
> advice for me?
>
> Pattern-chaser
>
> "Who cares, wins"

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Pattern-chaser wrote:
[]
> For example, the Z3 offers manual focus, but the FZ3 does not. Given
> that I like to take (some) low-light photos, where focussing can be a
> problem, should I worry about the lack of manual focus in the FZ3?

Take a look at the Panasonic FZ20 - Jessops may price match Internet
prices for this camera (so about GBP 330) and it has the manual focus you
questioned.

> I suppose what I'd really like is to hire a Z3 and an FZ3, and try
> them both out, but I don't think there is such a service available
> (in the UK). So I rely on magazines and other reviews, and on you lot
> out there! Any advice for me?

Jessops have a returns policy - if you don't like the camera take it back
(in perfect condition, of course). Go to Jessops and try both cameras.
How well they handle and how easy they are to use is very important. For
example, can you use the camera with gloves on? This amy be important if
you are an outdoor type!

If you don't mind the smaller pixel count, the Canon S1 IS is another
alternative at about GBP 250. As a general recommendation, stick with
well-know brands like Nikon, Canon, Panasonic etc.

Cheers,
David

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Yeh - go for a good name brand ~ same rules as in 35mm world apply here too

A

"David J Taylor" <david-taylor@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:318fr4F38ih23U1@individual.net...
> Pattern-chaser wrote:
> []
>> For example, the Z3 offers manual focus, but the FZ3 does not. Given
>> that I like to take (some) low-light photos, where focussing can be a
>> problem, should I worry about the lack of manual focus in the FZ3?
>
> Take a look at the Panasonic FZ20 - Jessops may price match Internet
> prices for this camera (so about GBP 330) and it has the manual focus you
> questioned.
>
>> I suppose what I'd really like is to hire a Z3 and an FZ3, and try
>> them both out, but I don't think there is such a service available
>> (in the UK). So I rely on magazines and other reviews, and on you lot
>> out there! Any advice for me?
>
> Jessops have a returns policy - if you don't like the camera take it back
> (in perfect condition, of course). Go to Jessops and try both cameras.
> How well they handle and how easy they are to use is very important. For
> example, can you use the camera with gloves on? This amy be important if
> you are an outdoor type!
>
> If you don't mind the smaller pixel count, the Canon S1 IS is another
> alternative at about GBP 250. As a general recommendation, stick with
> well-know brands like Nikon, Canon, Panasonic etc.
>
> Cheers,
> David
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Pattern-chaser" <pattern-chaser@merrick.britishlibrary.net> schrieb im
Newsbeitrag newsomdnehL67NTZDPcRVnyjw@pipex.net...
> I'm new here, but have posted several times recently concerning my
> impending purchase of a digital compact camera, probably either a Konica
> Minolta Dimage Z3 or a Panasonic Lumix FZ3.
>
> The point of this post is to ask you all: how do I know what's
> important? I have some past experience of 35mm SLR photography, but I am
> a complete novice when it comes to digital photography. So I read
> magazines, newsgroups and other reviews, hoping to learn. My most
> difficult problem - I expect this applies to all newbies! - is how to
> know whether some feature (or drawback) of a particular camera will
> matter to me or not.

Hm, if you have some experience you'll likely know how and what you
photograph. E.g., if you don't do action photos and don't intend to, then
a slow auto focus might be ok.

> For example, the Z3 offers manual focus, but the FZ3 does not. Given
> that I like to take (some) low-light photos, where focussing can be a
> problem, should I worry about the lack of manual focus in the FZ3?

I think yes, if the FZ3 has no AF assist lamp. But, manual fokus is not
the same quality in every camera: for examply my G5 shows the center of
the picture enlarged on the display to easy focussing and it's still
difficult enough. Other cams don't even have this feature. If you will
have to manually focus often, then a DSLR might be a better choice.

> I suppose what I'd really like is to hire a Z3 and an FZ3, and try them
> both out, but I don't think there is such a service available (in the
> UK). So I rely on magazines and other reviews, and on you lot out there!
> Any advice for me?

Dunno about UK. I guess I could lend me both at my local store here to
try them out.

Kind regards

robert

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Pattern-chaser wrote:
> I'm new here, but have posted several times recently concerning my
> impending purchase of a digital compact camera, probably either a Konica
> Minolta Dimage Z3 or a Panasonic Lumix FZ3.
>
> The point of this post is to ask you all: how do I know what's
> important? I have some past experience of 35mm SLR photography, but I am
> a complete novice when it comes to digital photography. So I read
> magazines, newsgroups and other reviews, hoping to learn. My most
> difficult problem - I expect this applies to all newbies! - is how to
> know whether some feature (or drawback) of a particular camera will
> matter to me or not.
>
> For example, the Z3 offers manual focus, but the FZ3 does not. Given
> that I like to take (some) low-light photos, where focussing can be a
> problem, should I worry about the lack of manual focus in the FZ3?
>
> I suppose what I'd really like is to hire a Z3 and an FZ3, and try them
> both out, but I don't think there is such a service available (in the
> UK). So I rely on magazines and other reviews, and on you lot out there!
> Any advice for me?
>
> Pattern-chaser
>
> "Who cares, wins"

I think the biggest problem in choosing a first camera is to decide what
you REALLY want to do with the camera and not be distracted by bells and
whistles that will rarely if ever be used.
Actually write down a list of the "MUST HAVE" features based on your
previous 35mm photographic experience. Then make a list of "Would really
like" features.
Now be very ruthless and PRIORITIZE the features in order of importance.
Go to Steves Digicams and dp Reviews and see which cameras have the
features you want. Award 1-5 points to how well each camera fulfills
each feature you have prioritized. You will end up with a Matrix of
Cameras vs Features and a ranking for each feature.
Unless you actually write it all down, everything will eventually be a
big blur and you will be confused and frustrated.
Finally go to a big camera shop and actually HANDLE your top choices.
Does it fit into your hands nicely. Too big...Too little ...Looks
funny.....etc.
Finally, if you are a guy, ask that little hottie salesgirl with the big
tits which of your choices would she recommend... and buy that one. ;-)
Bob Williams

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Aerticeus wrote:
> It may be a case of making your first purchase naively so that your second
> purchase will not only be based on information but also experience

That's rather what I'm trying to avoid! ;-) To me, three or four hundred
pounds on a camera is a significant amount of money. I don't want to
spend it, only to find that my initial purchase was a huge mistake. I
can't afford to! ;-)

I considered buying a much cheaper camera to start with, to get used to
digital photography, and the way it complements my own 'style' of
photography. But then I thought that such a camera wouldn't have half
the features that I look forward to when I buy an FZ3 or a Z3, so I
would learn little, *and* waste the cost of my first purchase!

Thanks to eveyone who has responded!

Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"

 

[jeremy]

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

> I considered buying a much cheaper camera to start with, to get used to
> digital photography, and the way it complements my own 'style' of
> photography.

You can find tons of them on eBay, and you can buy them dirt cheap, too.

You will almost certainly have buyer's remorse if you jump in head-first and
buy an expensive digicam, only to learn later that it does not have the
feature set that you need.

Your idea of buying cheap (my suggestion: buy USED, if you can get more
features) is a good one. Besides, a year from now, when you are ready to
buy your dream camera, it will probably have been eclipsed by yet a better
model!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Hiring is expensive. Buying and selling from and to ebay is the
equivalent, and sometimes you can keep a camera for a month or two and
sell it at pretty much the same you got it for or a modest cost or even
a slight profit if you were careful initially. Don't buy from Jessops,
buy from eBay and be careful whom you buy from and at what price. Keep
all packaging intact and get yourself a good padded bag like those from
lowepro and keep it in it at most times and handle it gently so the
camera would remain like new. If you like it, keep it, if not, sell it
and get another one.
You'll probably know what's important on your third digital purchase.
So don't worry too much about the first or second, unless money is a
major issue.
Also, your interests and therefore needs will probably shift from
season to season, until some point in time that you've explored the
many genres and knew what it is you like. When you know what genre of
photography you like most, choosing a camera will be easier.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

One important difference of DC from FC is that DC has its "unique"
sensor. The characteristics of the sensor fundamentally affect
the final "image quality" which may or may not be corrected by
software later. A large pixel size (normally also larger sensor
size) will produce less noise and thus a higher ISO speed which
is important for low-light photos. The characteristics of the
color filter on the sensor and the processing software affect
the tonal quality of the final image. So do not assume that
all digital cameras produce similar images. I find that Canon
produces more pleasant colors (to me) and Nikon more "natural"
colors. Of course this is only a personal preference. So in
addition to features, please also check the image quality.
So staying with well know brands is not a bad idea.

In article <318fr4F38ih23U1@individual.net>,
David J Taylor <david-taylor@invalid.com> wrote:
>Pattern-chaser wrote:
>[]
>> For example, the Z3 offers manual focus, but the FZ3 does not. Given
>> that I like to take (some) low-light photos, where focussing can be a
>> problem, should I worry about the lack of manual focus in the FZ3?
>
>Take a look at the Panasonic FZ20 - Jessops may price match Internet
>prices for this camera (so about GBP 330) and it has the manual focus you
>questioned.
>
>> I suppose what I'd really like is to hire a Z3 and an FZ3, and try
>> them both out, but I don't think there is such a service available
>> (in the UK). So I rely on magazines and other reviews, and on you lot
>> out there! Any advice for me?
>
>Jessops have a returns policy - if you don't like the camera take it back
>(in perfect condition, of course). Go to Jessops and try both cameras.
>How well they handle and how easy they are to use is very important. For
>example, can you use the camera with gloves on? This amy be important if
>you are an outdoor type!
>
>If you don't mind the smaller pixel count, the Canon S1 IS is another
>alternative at about GBP 250. As a general recommendation, stick with
>well-know brands like Nikon, Canon, Panasonic etc.
>
>Cheers,
>David
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Charlie Ih wrote:
> ...do not assume that
> all digital cameras produce similar images. I find that Canon
> produces more pleasant colors (to me) and Nikon more "natural"
> colors.

Could these colour differences be altered using Photoshop (or similar),
or are you describing a sort of colour cast that is fixed, in some
sense? If the latter, then I must consider another aspect: the Panasonic
FZ3 produces images that are flatter (colour-wise) than the Dimage Z3,
but maybe more accurate? I suspect many users would wish to up the
colour saturation (correct term?) from the FZ3, but tone it down from
the Z3. Is this possible, then, or are these colour differences fixed
before the image reaches my PC?

Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Pattern-chaser wrote:
> Charlie Ih wrote:
>> ...do not assume that
>> all digital cameras produce similar images. I find that Canon
>> produces more pleasant colors (to me) and Nikon more "natural"
>> colors.
>
> Could these colour differences be altered using Photoshop (or
> similar), or are you describing a sort of colour cast that is fixed,
> in some sense? If the latter, then I must consider another aspect:
> the Panasonic FZ3 produces images that are flatter (colour-wise) than
> the Dimage Z3, but maybe more accurate? I suspect many users would
> wish to up the colour saturation (correct term?) from the FZ3, but
> tone it down from the Z3. Is this possible, then, or are these colour
> differences fixed before the image reaches my PC?
>

Some cameras allow adjustment of some of those processes, in the camera.
The differences between cameras may be in the default settings.

--
Frank ess

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Pattern-chaser wrote:
[]
> Could these colour differences be altered using Photoshop (or
> similar), or are you describing a sort of colour cast that is fixed,
> in some sense?

Yes, colour balance can be altered. For best results, do a manual white
balance when taking the picture. Fore even better results save the camera
images in RAW not JPEG and be prepared to spend some time post-processing
ech image.

> If the latter, then I must consider another aspect:
> the Panasonic FZ3 produces images that are flatter (colour-wise) than
> the Dimage Z3, but maybe more accurate? I suspect many users would
> wish to up the colour saturation (correct term?) from the FZ3, but
> tone it down from the Z3. Is this possible, then, or are these colour
> differences fixed before the image reaches my PC?

Unless you directly compare a print (or screen image) with the original
picture, you should be broadly happy with any "reasonable" camera. If
they can't produce acceptable pictures "out of the box" there's something
wrong with them. Many cameras allow you to preset things like sharpness,
contrast and colour balance so if you don't like the results you can apply
a fixed tweak before the image is saved as a JPEG.

If you view prints from 10 cameras, and each printed on 10 different
printers, then you'll see 100 different colour-balanced and exposed
pictures, /none/ of which will 100% match the original scene! Are any of
them good enough? You decide!

Cheers,
David

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <X7qdnZuvVtRN1DLcRVnyhA@pipex.net>,
Pattern-chaser <pattern-chaser@merrick.britishlibrary.net> wrote:

>
>Could these colour differences be altered using Photoshop (or similar),
>or are you describing a sort of colour cast that is fixed, in some
>sense? If the latter, then I must consider another aspect: the Panasonic
>FZ3 produces images that are flatter (colour-wise) than the Dimage Z3,
>but maybe more accurate? I suspect many users would wish to up the
>colour saturation (correct term?) from the FZ3, but tone it down from
>the Z3. Is this possible, then, or are these colour differences fixed
>before the image reaches my PC?
>
>Pattern-chaser
>
>"Who cares, wins"

They can be changed to some degree. It is very difficult to make them
the same. Of course, I did not try that hard. Many cameras let you
change the color saturation. However, the color "mix" is more or less
unique to each camera.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Kibo informs me that Pattern-chaser
<pattern-chaser@merrick.britishlibrary.net> stated that:

>I'm new here, but have posted several times recently concerning my
>impending purchase of a digital compact camera, probably either a Konica
>Minolta Dimage Z3 or a Panasonic Lumix FZ3.
>
>The point of this post is to ask you all: how do I know what's
>important?

The short answer is that you don't, because it's a subjective decision
that only you can make, & you can't make an informed decision until you
have some experience. My advice is to buy something cheap & learn on
that. Then you'll know what you're looking for.

>For example, the Z3 offers manual focus, but the FZ3 does not. Given
>that I like to take (some) low-light photos, where focussing can be a
>problem, should I worry about the lack of manual focus in the FZ3?

No, because the manual focus systems on *every* brand & model of compact
digicam are useless. Buy something with a focus-assist light, & try it
out in a dark corner of the shop before you slap down your credit card.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

usenet@imagenoir.com wrote:
[]
> No, because the manual focus systems on *every* brand & model of
> compact digicam are useless. Buy something with a focus-assist light,
> & try it out in a dark corner of the shop before you slap down your
> credit card.

It seems to me that these are two different things:

- yes, a focus-assist light will help auto-focus in low-light situations.

- whether a camera has a usable manual focus system is something
completely different; and I would submit that the manual focus on the
Panasonic FZ20, for example, is completely usable. On other cameras as
well, I'm sure, but I don't have direct experience of such cameras.

David

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Kibo informs me that "David J Taylor" <david-taylor@invalid.com> stated
that:

>- whether a camera has a usable manual focus system is something
>completely different; and I would submit that the manual focus on the
>Panasonic FZ20, for example, is completely usable. On other cameras as
>well, I'm sure, but I don't have direct experience of such cameras.

Possibly I'm fussier than you. I learned photography on manual focus
lenses, & I find that most modern SLRs are, at best, average for manual
focus. Compare that to trying to manual focus on a digicam, & you can
probably see where I'm coming from.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

usenet@imagenoir.com wrote:
> Kibo informs me that "David J Taylor" <david-taylor@invalid.com>
> stated that:
>
>> - whether a camera has a usable manual focus system is something
>> completely different; and I would submit that the manual focus on the
>> Panasonic FZ20, for example, is completely usable. On other cameras
>> as well, I'm sure, but I don't have direct experience of such
>> cameras.
>
> Possibly I'm fussier than you. I learned photography on manual focus
> lenses, & I find that most modern SLRs are, at best, average for
> manual focus. Compare that to trying to manual focus on a digicam, &
> you can probably see where I'm coming from.

Yes, I gather that things like microprisms and split-image rangefinder
spots are no longer supplied with today's autofocus SLRs.

The Panasonic FZ20 and other cameras offer a magnified view of the centre
of the field, and the FZ20 has a nice focus ring you can twist to focus.
It's quite clear through going through focus where the best focus point
is. Try one if you can - you might like it!

David

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

David J Taylor wrote:
> usenet@imagenoir.com wrote:
>
>>Kibo informs me that "David J Taylor" <david-taylor@invalid.com>
>>stated that:
>>
>>
>>>- whether a camera has a usable manual focus system is something
>>>completely different; and I would submit that the manual focus on the
>>>Panasonic FZ20, for example, is completely usable. On other cameras
>>>as well, I'm sure, but I don't have direct experience of such
>>>cameras.
>>
>>Possibly I'm fussier than you. I learned photography on manual focus
>>lenses, & I find that most modern SLRs are, at best, average for
>>manual focus. Compare that to trying to manual focus on a digicam, &
>>you can probably see where I'm coming from.
>
>
> Yes, I gather that things like microprisms and split-image rangefinder
> spots are no longer supplied with today's autofocus SLRs.
>
> The Panasonic FZ20 and other cameras offer a magnified view of the centre
> of the field, and the FZ20 has a nice focus ring you can twist to focus.
> It's quite clear through going through focus where the best focus point
> is. Try one if you can - you might like it!
>
> David
>
>
I guess the OP really answered the question anyway

"how do I know ... "

The answer is: you don't until you do

Everything else is expectation, speculation and procrastination

Once you have shelled out the readies then you will know and as a
previous poster mentioned: do a price match purchase from Jessops after
explaining your dilemma

The trouble is you may not get a direct answer on Saturday or Sunday as
sales staff may have to consult some central office. And guess what?

Yep, it's not available Sats and Suns (well it wasn't before I bought
the S1 IS - I tried )

Aerticeus

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Aerticeus wrote:
> do a price match purchase from Jessops after
> explaining your dilemma

Now *that's* what I call a helpful suggestion. ;-) Thanks again, all,
for your thoughts.

Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"