Obama Wants Internet ID for All Americans

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[citation][nom]orionite[/nom]I always have to remind myself that our cultures have a very different history. Evaluation and criticism of ones own culture compared to someone else's can be very hard. That definitely goes both ways.[/citation]
It's not culture, it's just that you have a much better educational system than we have over here. We also have perpetual elections that never end. As soon as the midterms were voted on the media began ramping up speculation as to who will run for president in 2012. Misleading news with hypersensitive personalities impersonating news journalists have become the new reality TV.

This isn't culture, this is pure idiocy from the right, and self proclaimed independents that are really just fringe right wing nut jobs that think their opinions are mainstream.
 
[citation][nom]Silmarunya[/nom]Call it socialism if you have to, but keep in mind that:- Europe, on average, does better economically than the US, despite lacking natural resources and other stable sources of revenue.- Poverty levels in Europe are far lower than in the US- The US places a lot of limits on personal freedoms that Europe does not (the right to marry a person of choice, even if he/she shares your gender for example, or the right not to be held without proof even if you are an alleged terrorist).- Our education system ranks consistently higher in rankings.- Crime rates are lower- The influence of large corporations on government matters is far smaller- More is being done to protect the environment in Europe than in the US.[/citation]This reply reads more like a laundry list of why European style socialism is better than the American Democratic Republic. This isn't about which form of government is better so please dispense with the "my way is better than yours" debate and focus on this type of program is being viewed as a bad idea.

America as a culture and society was founded on the basic tenant of individuality and personal responsibility. European style socialism, socialist styled programs, or any form of socialism for that matter, is the antithesis of the individual. Any encroachment, whether actual or perceived, to that sense of individuality is automatically met with skepticism and rancor.

And, not for nothing, the European Union as a whole may be all the those things listed, but there is no single country in the EU that compares to America using the same criteria.
 
What do I think of this?
Fuck you.

Sure, I use my name on Tom's, but that's by choice. I already hate the fact I have to carry ID everywhere I go (anytime a cops stopped me and I don't have ID, it hasn't gone over well).
You want me to have ID to use the internet too?
 
[citation][nom]zachary k[/nom]wow, just because its the government talking you are already throwing this idea out the airlock, i am willing to hear these guys out.i, personally hate the internet as it exists today, a wild west where nobody knows who you are, no consequences and anything goes. scams, viruses, its a hell hole.[/citation]If you hate it so much, unplug and live internet free.
 
Jesus, calm the fuck down. You don't have to get one, they're just trying to keep our private information safe. Stop thinking you're so clever by spouting shit about national conspiracy.
 
[citation][nom]Pseudonymous[/nom]READ the article, they are not mandatory id's, you don't have to get one.[/citation]

and how long do you think it will take for it to be mandatory?

"what they are intending is to use RFID chips implanted under the skin so that it will be more convenient to track, um I mean more convenient for you to use it."

i know i am going to get a huge response and possibly get flamed for this... but here it goes:

"It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. That number is 666."
 
[citation][nom]deecrutch[/nom]I suppose some of you would like this better if Bush and Cheney and their cronies had come up with it?Sheesh....[/citation]

No, that would be just as bad. Stop thinking in terms of left or right. It's the enormous size of government and giving more power to bureaucrats.
 
[citation][nom]Silmarunya[/nom]I know anti-government fanatics will oppose this no matter its merits, so I wonder why I'm writing this post. Still, here goes.Many European countries have been using electronic ID cards (yes, we have those and we aren't being oppressed by the evil government yet) that also serve as an internet ID like the one proposed by Obama.So far there are no reports of it being exploited, hacked or otherwise used for malicious purposes. On the contrary, it has reduced preying by paedophiles (as many online chatrooms attended by young users now require you to use such an ID, thus preventing you from lying about your age), has increased the security of online banking and so on.The costs are extremely low (we get readers and ID cards for free, but even if you had to purchase them, costs are just a few dollars), the security improvements massive and the amount of private data stored minimal (the government can hardly use your age, area of residence and other such basic facts to oppress you in anyway, as they already have these anyway)[/citation]


Maybe it isn't that anti-government fanatics will oppose it no matter what, maybe it's that some people value privacy more than others. Or possibly that big government fanatics let the governments of the world lead them like cattle.

Your post assumes too much, and defeats itself in those assumptions, because as assumptions tend to be, they are incorrect.

A) that American and European cards would have anything significant in common outside of age. If they do it should probably be even more scary.

B) Anyone who has your age, access to your passport, SSN (in America) and DoB can get just about whatever they want.

C) You kind of assume you even know everything that the European card stores. A brief google search actually shows different cards store different data.

P.S. The Daily Mail reports that a security expert cloned and programmed one of your "secure" cards in 12 minutes. So does it really stop pedophiles or just give them an avenue to create fake "legitimate" ids? It's kind of like (and I've lived in the UK, South East London actually) the UK thinking outlawing guns would reduce gun crime. Gun crime has actually gone up 387% since they outlawed them. All they really did was disarm people from defending themselves bc the law breakers are going to break the law anyway. Bass ackwards thinking. And the UK ID does contain all of your insurance data concerning your benefits and 49 other categories of information about its citizenry, including biometric data.

D) European RIHD (like the ones used in Germany) are actually very easily cracked, its called a trojan horse that contains a keylogger, even IF (and thats a HUGE 'if') there are no other security vulnerabilities. However, the Plusminus hacking group has already exploited the cards on national tv in Germany so that big IF will never really mean anything but insecurity. I remember a time when they said WEP, 128 bit SSL, and RFID were "secure" and couldn't be cracked. Oh, and the German version also stores banking and biometric data, how do we know the American version wouldn't be more similar to this?

When is it that people (it seems particularly rampant in big government people) figure out this has NOTHING to do with privacy and EVERYTHING to do with control? In fact, I would argue it takes most crackers more than 12 minutes to steal, change, and forge an entire identity...well at least until the introduction of the European ID card, except this way they can make it so you never existed in that centralized database that doesn't exist (in those same 12 minutes).
 
It will only be a matter of time until the security system is cracked and criminals get hold of all your information. Hence one central system is not a good idea in this case.
 
One wonders of the general populace would be willing to accommodate this proposal if the title were headed: "CFR (Council on Foreign Relations) Wants Internet ID for ALL Americans".

Once completed, the new plan will be handled by the U.S. Commerce Department rather than the Department of Homeland Security or the National Security Agency.

Yep..it's not like corporate, global interests have a big influence in civil liberties these days. How much safer we are in their hands. We don't need to worry about the Commerce Department being used as a front. Nope, all we have to worry about is making sure our demographic data is handed over to BOTH private corporations AND government for the purpose of economic growth. After all, they always have our best interests at heart that's why we're in such a fine state thanks to them.
 
This sounds like a _great_ idea. Maybe it could be taken a step further by having our id converted to something scannable, say, a bar code. Then, so you don't lose or forget it, it could be tatooed somewhere on your person. I can't wait!
 
[citation][nom]knotknut[/nom]This American wants Obama out of office along with his whole free-loading staff.Did you know only 8% of his staff ever held a real job?[/citation]

You like to pull random numbers out of your ass dont you? Did you knew that the GOP named the Prince of Pork at the head of the Appropriations Committee? Qualified much?
 
"He also added that there won't be an emerging centralized database..."
"Anonymity and pseudonymity will still remain possible on the Internet..."

This is complete bullshit. Smartcards and certificates work *because* there is a database on the back-end. Otherwise there wouldn't be anyway to verify the certificate is *legit* or just a random string of numbers. If this ever becomes a requirement for internet access then break out the tinfoil hats cuz they can see everything you do online and if they find something they don't like they can disable your cert at the drop of a hat. Then you have nothing. That's why the D.O.D. uses it, it gives them *absolute control* over what people can and can't do on their network.
 
Don't need it... The Verisign class 1 digital signature is all that s needed.... I.e the one that you go to a lawyer to prove who you are. Since the lawyer has your data, the government doesn't. Problem with it I guess is that is an expensive process...
 
[citation][nom]jimmysmitty[/nom]True if you look at Europe as a whole but look at each country and:- No single European Country or any country for that matter has a higher GDP than the US. Sure combine all of Asia or all of Europe and it probably will.- Overall probably. I would hope that a country that controls most of everything would have lower poverty/unemployment rates. If they had higher it would just be the fall of the USSR again.- Everyone is different about marriage. Some say one way, others say another way. And in most cases, you cannot be held without some sort of crime. If there is no crime or proof of that crime police can't hold you. Terrorism is another thing.- Yes the education system is higher. Then again the government controls it. Here its not as regulated and personally I think the Government should focus on that. But its not to say you cannot succeed in it. I did fairly well considering we had over crowded classrooms and under paid teachers.- Crime is relative. There are still large influences of gangs all over Europe that control the police and localized governments. That alone could easily make crime rates seem lower. Happens everywhere though, not just Europe. Its a world thing that darn organized crime.- While Europe may be pushing ahead in environment and civil rights, all of it really started in the US. And honestly some of the best things start here. In China alone they still don't follow the same regulations as here and its because its cheaper for the company. It will come in time but still overall, the US is pretty good in terms of environmental friendliness.I for one can't see Socialism working in the US. The people are not the same. Its worked somewhat in Europe but I always look at something like the EU and think. Its basically a milder version of the USSR. But in the end it will probably fail. And when it does, those smaller countries that do not have a good GDP or anything to really make them money will fall the hardest, much like the smaller countries of the USSR did. Its actually happening right now. Greece alone shows that. Greece has nothing really and needed a major bailout that if they didn't get would have probably started the collapse of the EU.But still this is crap.[/citation]

Most of your points are invalid:

- Several European nations have a higher GDP per capita, which is the only significant statistic. If a hundred people account for $10.000 while 200 account for $18.000, which group is doing better? On a related note, why do you think Germany enjoys the lowest interest rate on its bonds in the world?

- If a nation has a lower level of poverty, it is doing better. Does it matter if that lower poverty is caused by aliens, socialists, liberals or gorillas?

- Denying couples marriage on religious grounds is okay if you are a church, but how can a state justify denying that on the same grounds? Certain Islamic dictatorships do so, but not a secular, highly developed nation - or so I'd think. And someone can be arrested is someone suspects he is a terrorist, even without prior proof. Holding someone for a long period on these grounds is not just unethical, it's unworthy of a democracy.

- I have crowded classrooms as well, yet I still enjoyed an education near the top of the PISA rankings, while the US is ranked below many poor or emerging nations. Again, does it matter even a bit that the government has a hand in it? I want a good education and if the state can do that, let it go ahead. Be pragmatic, please... Do everything in the best way, even if that happens to be socialist in that case.

- If you're thinking of southern Italy, yes. But that's about the only part of the EU where gangs have real influence. Not any more than in the US that is.

- The US started civil rights movements? We abolished slavery long before you did. We didn't have racial segregation deep into the 20th century. We gave women voting rights earlier than you did. The US started environmental movements? Think again...

- You're doing well environmentally? Compared to China, sure. But that's like calling yourself intelligent because there is one kid that gets even lower grades than you do. Compared to nations of similar wealth and development, the US is doing extremely poor.

- If you play the Greece card, I'll play the Germany/the Netherlands/Scandinavia/Flanders card. Just like the US has states that are doing well and that are doing poorly, the EU has the same thing. May I remind you it's not unheard of for American states and communities to go bankrupt just like Greece did? And your 'if Greece hadn't been bailed out...' makes no sense. It has been bailed out, proving the EU is stronger than ever (it has the financial reserves to make a bail out and the political unity to actually do it).

But enough politics, it's getting tiring.

 
[citation][nom]zainx[/nom]"He also added that there won't be an emerging centralized database...""Anonymity and pseudonymity will still remain possible on the Internet..."This is complete bullshit. Smartcards and certificates work *because* there is a database on the back-end. Otherwise there wouldn't be anyway to verify the certificate is *legit* or just a random string of numbers. If this ever becomes a requirement for internet access then break out the tinfoil hats cuz they can see everything you do online and if they find something they don't like they can disable your cert at the drop of a hat. Then you have nothing. That's why the D.O.D. uses it, it gives them *absolute control* over what people can and can't do on their network.[/citation]

Its only when you buy something.... Anyway Google knows everything about you you paranoid fool.
 
"We are not talking about a national ID card,"
"We are not talking about a government-controlled system. What we are talking about is enhancing online security and privacy and reducing and perhaps even eliminating the need to memorize a dozen passwords, through creation and use of more trusted digital identities."

What I read from that:
"We are talking about a national ID card,"
"We are talking about a government-controlled system. What we are talking about is reducing online security and privacy and enhancing and perhaps even elevating the need to gain information on user passwords, through the creation and use of more trusted digital identities that will help us in combating internet Anonymousity and knowing what everyone is doing online at any time, and be able to track down on what we call "Domestic Terrorists"."
 
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