Pentax rumours become truth: *istDL to come as low budget ..

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"Johannes Schwab" <perelandra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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> Found today on a german website:
>
> http://www.digifotografen.de/index.php?id=0,62,0,0,1,0



Another mediocre step by Pentax along the road to bankruptcy.

The last thing that the market needs now is yet another discount de-featured
DSLR.
 
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"Trapezium" <nil@nil.net> wrote in message
news:3g5p3eFaom01U1@individual.net...
>
> "Johannes Schwab" <perelandra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:d7k7h9$gro$1@online.de...
>> Found today on a german website:
>>
>> http://www.digifotografen.de/index.php?id=0,62,0,0,1,0
>
>
>
> Another mediocre step by Pentax along the road to bankruptcy.
>
> The last thing that the market needs now is yet another discount
> de-featured DSLR.

Discount maybe but defeatured, what is it missing? Another, what are the
others missing?
 
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"Pete D" <no@email.com> wrote in message
news:zjine.9381$BR4.3460@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> "Trapezium" <nil@nil.net> wrote in message
> news:3g5p3eFaom01U1@individual.net...
>>
>> "Johannes Schwab" <perelandra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:d7k7h9$gro$1@online.de...
>>> Found today on a german website:
>>>
>>> http://www.digifotografen.de/index.php?id=0,62,0,0,1,0
>>
>>
>>
>> Another mediocre step by Pentax along the road to bankruptcy.
>>
>> The last thing that the market needs now is yet another discount
>> de-featured DSLR.
>
> Discount maybe but defeatured, what is it missing?


As far as I understand, a the Pentaprism has been replaced by a
'pentamirror' and the AF system has been reduced from 11 points to three (a
la Olympus E300)

There will almost certainly be other downgrades from the Ds which, itself,
was downgraded from the D - if this keeps up we'll soon be back at the
digital equivalent of a box Brownie.





Another, what are the
> others missing?<

A Foveon sensor?
 
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Trapezium wrote:

> There will almost certainly be other downgrades from the Ds which, itself,
> was downgraded from the D - if this keeps up we'll soon be back at the
> digital equivalent of a box Brownie.

Sounds like a winner to me. Perhaps Kodak should take notice now that
they've killed their SLR.


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In article <3g5rfrFarkh2U1@individual.net>, Trapezium <nil@nil.net> wrote:
>
>"Pete D" <no@email.com> wrote in message
>news:zjine.9381$BR4.3460@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>> "Trapezium" <nil@nil.net> wrote in message
>> news:3g5p3eFaom01U1@individual.net...
>>>
>>> "Johannes Schwab" <perelandra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:d7k7h9$gro$1@online.de...
>>>> Found today on a german website:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.digifotografen.de/index.php?id=0,62,0,0,1,0
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Another mediocre step by Pentax along the road to bankruptcy.
>>>
>>> The last thing that the market needs now is yet another discount
>>> de-featured DSLR.
>>
>> Discount maybe but defeatured, what is it missing?
>
>
>As far as I understand, a the Pentaprism has been replaced by a
>'pentamirror' and the AF system has been reduced from 11 points to three (a
>la Olympus E300)
>
>There will almost certainly be other downgrades from the DS which, itself,
>was downgraded from the D - if this keeps up we'll soon be back at the
>digital equivalent of a box Brownie.


"almost certainly" ?

Only if the marketplace demands it. This camera is aimed at the price
point the Japanese market seems to want - an eventual US street price of
under $600, body only.

The next predicted K-mount body is a feature-rich upgrade to the *ist-D
(I'm betting it will be called the *ist-Dn), around a year from now.

The DS (and, now, the DL) aren't aimed at existing SLR users - they are
targetted at the folks moving up from a digital point-and-shoot. That's
the only area in the digital camera marketplace where there is growth,
and an opportunity for Pentax to capture a little more market share.

Pentax may be going bankrupt, but it won't be beacause of the *ist-DL
 

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"Trapezium" <nil@nil.net> wrote in message
news:3g5p3eFaom01U1@individual.net...
>
> "Johannes Schwab" <perelandra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:d7k7h9$gro$1@online.de...
>> Found today on a german website:
>>
>> http://www.digifotografen.de/index.php?id=0,62,0,0,1,0
>
>
>
> Another mediocre step by Pentax along the road to bankruptcy.
>
> The last thing that the market needs now is yet another discount
> de-featured DSLR.
Actually that is what the market is calling for. The biggest growth in dSLR
is the sub $1,000(usd) market. People who think the market revolves around a
$2,000 dSLR body are dreaming.
 
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"John Francis" <johnf@panix.com> wrote in message
news:d7kpr1$kfg$1@reader1.panix.com...
> In article <3g5rfrFarkh2U1@individual.net>, Trapezium <nil@nil.net> wrote:
>>
>>"Pete D" <no@email.com> wrote in message
>>news:zjine.9381$BR4.3460@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>
>>> "Trapezium" <nil@nil.net> wrote in message
>>> news:3g5p3eFaom01U1@individual.net...
>>>>
>>>> "Johannes Schwab" <perelandra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:d7k7h9$gro$1@online.de...
>>>>> Found today on a german website:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.digifotografen.de/index.php?id=0,62,0,0,1,0
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Another mediocre step by Pentax along the road to bankruptcy.
>>>>
>>>> The last thing that the market needs now is yet another discount
>>>> de-featured DSLR.
>>>
>>> Discount maybe but defeatured, what is it missing?
>>
>>
>>As far as I understand, a the Pentaprism has been replaced by a
>>'pentamirror' and the AF system has been reduced from 11 points to three
>>(a
>>la Olympus E300)
>>
>>There will almost certainly be other downgrades from the DS which, itself,
>>was downgraded from the D - if this keeps up we'll soon be back at the
>>digital equivalent of a box Brownie.
>
>
> "almost certainly" ?
>
> Only if the marketplace demands it. <

What sort of bollox is that supposed to be? - the new DL is a downgrade,
whether the 'market' wants it, or not

As for your heady predictions of a new 'feature rich' pro-type camera from
Pentax, you might be in for a surprise.

Pentax are on their financial uppers and may well have embarked on a last
ditch effort to secure sales by launching a cheaper-to-manufacture version
of the Ds

This leaves no room for the current istDs - so you can expect that to
disappear, and since no self respecting Pro is going to buy into the Pentax
system the top end of the market isn't going to be attractive to Pentax
either.

I predict no replacement for the D, and the imminent end of the Ds - leaving
Pentax as a digicam & low end dslr manufacturer (if the survive at all -
which is by no means certain)

That would very probably be the best financial strategy for them - and is,
inho, the most likely scenario
 
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In article <3g6bpcFasdjjU1@individual.net>, Trapezium <nil@nil.net> wrote:
>
>"John Francis" <johnf@panix.com> wrote in message
>news:d7kpr1$kfg$1@reader1.panix.com...
>> In article <3g5rfrFarkh2U1@individual.net>, Trapezium <nil@nil.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>There will almost certainly be other downgrades from the DS which, itself,
>>>was downgraded from the D - if this keeps up we'll soon be back at the
>>>digital equivalent of a box Brownie.
>>
>> "almost certainly" ?
>>
>> Only if the marketplace demands it. <
>
>What sort of bollox is that supposed to be? - the new DL is a downgrade,
>whether the 'market' wants it, or not

If you got down off your podium, and actually read what I posted, you'd
find nobody was disagreeing with that - just your assertion that there
would be other downgrades.

>As for your heady predictions of a new 'feature rich' pro-type camera from
>Pentax, you might be in for a surprise.
>
>Pentax are on their financial uppers and may well have embarked on a last
>ditch effort to secure sales by launching a cheaper-to-manufacture version
>of the Ds
>
>This leaves no room for the current istDs - so you can expect that to
>disappear, and since no self respecting Pro is going to buy into the Pentax
>system the top end of the market isn't going to be attractive to Pentax
>either.
>
>I predict no replacement for the D, and the imminent end of the Ds - leaving
>Pentax as a digicam & low end dslr manufacturer (if the survive at all -
>which is by no means certain)
>
>That would very probably be the best financial strategy for them - and is,
>inho, the most likely scenario


Nope. Their best strategy is to go after market share now (hence the DS
and the DL), and then try and sell these guys (plus the D owners, who are
mostly drawn from the ranks of the existing Pentax SLR owners) upgrades.
Digicams are a saturated market - there are no opportunities there. Low
end DSLRs are a good market for now, but they'll saturate that fairly soon.
Trying to sell only into a highly-competitive, low-profit-margin, saturated
market is a quick way to commit commercial suicide.

The current head of Pentax spelled all this out some time ago, at about
the time the DS was released; a new, low-end DSLR (target street price
was even quoted as being around $600, driven by the Japanese market),
then the digital MF, then an upgraded follow-on to the *ist-D.

If Pentax manage to stick around (which, granted, is by no means certain)
this is the product line I expect to see. There's very little to be gained
by moving further to the low end - at $600 or so Pentax are already quite
price competitive with advanced P&S models. There *might* be a niche for
a $500 body, but there's only a limited window of opportunity to go after
those prospective customers. After that, you're stuck with trying to
convince your customer base to buy new models. Fortunately most camera
owners are irrational, and will stick with what they have rather than
switching to a different brand, even if their only investment in lenses
is the $100 kit lens that came with their original body.
 
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Trapezium wrote:

> Pentax are on their financial uppers and may well have embarked on a last
> ditch effort to secure sales by launching a cheaper-to-manufacture version
> of the Ds

In the film only lines, each OEM has cheapie SLR's to pro SLR's. This
is no different, it's just taking longer for the OEM's to find the
boundaries.


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-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
 

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"Trapezium" <nil@nil.net> wrote in message
news:3g6bpcFasdjjU1@individual.net...
>
>
> This leaves no room for the current istDs - so you can expect that to
> disappear, and since no self respecting Pro is going to buy into the
> Pentax system the top end of the market isn't going to be attractive to
> Pentax either.
>
The so called "Pro" (and wannabee) market is small. The now discounted
RebelXT sell 10:1 over the now discounted 20D, why? Because the market is
looking for lower cost cameras.
 
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>
> The DS (and, now, the DL) aren't aimed at existing SLR users - they are
> targetted at the folks moving up from a digital point-and-shoot. That's
> the only area in the digital camera marketplace where there is growth,
> and an opportunity for Pentax to capture a little more market share.

I was a Pentax MX 35mm user. I now have a fairly comprehensive Nikon DSLR
system. I will be very interested in the new Pentax *istDS as I have a
drawer-full of old K-mount lenses that served me well for many years and that
are now doing nothing. I wouldn't expect top-line performance from the DS,
but if it's cheap enough, I'd get it just to be able to use my old-buddy K
lenses once in a while.
 
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On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 10:42:23 -0400, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

>Trapezium wrote:
>
>> There will almost certainly be other downgrades from the Ds which, itself,
>> was downgraded from the D - if this keeps up we'll soon be back at the
>> digital equivalent of a box Brownie.
>
>Sounds like a winner to me. Perhaps Kodak should take notice now that
>they've killed their SLR.

A manual mode only DSLR with basic functions but well-built would be
very welcome.
-Rich
 
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"John Francis" <johnf@panix.com> wrote in message
news:d7kvii$936$1@reader1.panix.com...
> In article <3g6bpcFasdjjU1@individual.net>, Trapezium <nil@nil.net> wrote:
>>
>>"John Francis" <johnf@panix.com> wrote in message
>>news:d7kpr1$kfg$1@reader1.panix.com...
>>> In article <3g5rfrFarkh2U1@individual.net>, Trapezium <nil@nil.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>There will almost certainly be other downgrades from the DS which,
>>>>itself,
>>>>was downgraded from the D - if this keeps up we'll soon be back at the
>>>>digital equivalent of a box Brownie.
>>>
>>> "almost certainly" ?
>>>
>>> Only if the marketplace demands it. <
>>
>>What sort of bollox is that supposed to be? - the new DL is a downgrade,
>>whether the 'market' wants it, or not
>
> If you got down off your podium, and actually read what I posted, you'd
> find nobody was disagreeing with that - just your assertion that there
> would be other downgrades.




OK.let's start again- I was unduly terse, but that was because you seemed
determined to be pedantic.

My take (FWIW) is that the Dl will have other features removed because it's
an exercise in cost cutting.

These might well be features that Joe Average doesn't give a damn about -
and since, at this segment, price is everything, the lack of features will
probably not hurt sales.

The big question, of course, is what price Pentax pitch it at - and,
frankly, their track record is not good in this respect.

The D was ludicrously over-priced, and the Ds only sells because of a
seemingly unending rebate in the UK. Plus, all the manufacturers have to
overcome the very big hurdle presented by the Canon 350 - now down to about
£530 ex lens.

In the short term things look rosy for budget dslr buyers as the various
brands jostle each other to ever lower price points - but this is precisely
what Pentax do not want to occur, they need an income stream, and the need
it fast - market share with minimal profit per unit is not much use to them
at the moment.

Bottom line, I suppose, is that the market is just too crowded, and Nkican
have too much of an established lead for Pentax to catch up.

If they had launched a truly innovative product they might have stood a
chance - but (yet)another dumbed-down dslr?............
 
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"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
news:d7kbvv$6ac$2@inews.gazeta.pl...
> Trapezium wrote:
>
> > The last thing that the market needs now is yet another discount
de-featured
> > DSLR.
>
> It may be what Pentax needs to keep less photography-serious Pentax lens
> owners from running to Canon.

Perhaps, but I don't think that their business case for this camera is to
only be able to sell them to existing Pentax lens owners, even though this
is certain to be the actual group that buys such a camera.

The best hope for Pentax and/or Konica-Minolta, is for someone like Sony to
buy one of them. Olympus is already beyond hope with the 4:3 system.
 

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"Steven M. Scharf" <scharf.steven@linkearth.net> wrote in message
news:TTrne.11576$uR4.1898@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> "Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
> news:d7kbvv$6ac$2@inews.gazeta.pl...
>> Trapezium wrote:
>>
>> > The last thing that the market needs now is yet another discount
> de-featured
>> > DSLR.
>>
>> It may be what Pentax needs to keep less photography-serious Pentax lens
>> owners from running to Canon.
>
> Perhaps, but I don't think that their business case for this camera is to
> only be able to sell them to existing Pentax lens owners, even though
> this
> is certain to be the actual group that buys such a camera.
>
> The best hope for Pentax and/or Konica-Minolta, is for someone like Sony
> to
> buy one of them. Olympus is already beyond hope with the 4:3 system.
>
Today the Minolta Canada rep confirmed a soon to be announced 5D to compete
in the Rebel, *istDS, D50, E300 market..
 
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"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
news:d7l0k3$h49$2@inews.gazeta.pl...
> Trapezium wrote:
>
> > Pentax are on their financial uppers and may well have embarked on a
last
> > ditch effort to secure sales by launching a cheaper-to-manufacture
version
> > of the Ds
>
> In the film only lines, each OEM has cheapie SLR's to pro SLR's. This
> is no different, it's just taking longer for the OEM's to find the
> boundaries.

Unfortunately, except for Canon and Nikon, we're seing only the cheapies in
digital SLRs. Now Pentax will have one consumer level D-SLR, and two
entry-level D-SLRs.