Pilot Who Refused Body Scan May Lose His Job

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There are, I think, valid issues of public safety that we need to address
when it comes to these “flying bombs”. We also need to make sure that our
“inalienable rights” are NOT violated as a result of any safety measures we
put in place. Is it a violation of someone’s constitutional rights if they
are barred from secured areas in an airport and barred from boarding a plane
if they refuse to follow the regulations put in place? I think we can all
agree that flying is NOT a right, and I think we can all agree that since it
is NOT a right, but a privilege that lends itself to terrorist uses because
of the amount of damage that can be done if a terrorist can gain control of
the plane, security is something that should be attempted in the hopes that
it’s effective security. There are and always will be some inefficiencies
in any system that involves human contact as the pilot’s story indicates,
especially with duplication of records when two different security officials
needed the same statement and detained him to get. If we can agree on these
things then I think we’re at least a little closer to determining how FAR is
too far to maximize security in our culture.


1) The naked x-ray, for people who are similar to me, is awesome. I
stand in front of it and I’m cleared fast. I don’t care whether my junk is
seen by some “lowest common denominator”.


2) For people who are modest and opposed to just anyone seeing their
junk, there must be “acceptable options”.


a) The pilot was offered a “pat down” and refused. I think a pat-down
is a viable and cost effective alternative to the naked picture taking
machine, but apparently it goes too far for some people.


b) If you can’t take a picture, and you can’t do a pat-down, what can,
or should be done in the interests of public safety so we don’t have another
airplane bomb?


c) Would it be safer, and should we consider just giving everyone who
boards a plane a handgun to take a terrorist out if necessary? I think
that’s a bad idea considering how frustrated and emotional some air
passengers can get with delayed flights, cancelled flights, etc.


d) What’s left? Is no security better than requiring the x-ray or
pat-down?


Was there a violation of this pilot’s rights in your opinion? Which
constitutional right(s) were violated, how, and by whom if you think they
were? I don’t think so. I think he had a perfect right to refuse to any of
the above security measures, just like I think the "gov't" has a right to
deny him access to the secured areas if he wasn't in compliance with the
requisite security procedures, and just like I believe his employer has a
right to fire him for refusing to follow the legal requirements to gain
access to the jobsite for him to do the job he was hired to do.


He wasn't getting on a plane as pilot, he was getting on a plane that was taking him to the city where he would be departing from as a pilot. He was going to be a "passenger" on the plane he was about to board in Memphis.
 
He has every right to refuse. But they have every right to turn him away then. No one is forcing him to go through the scanner. There are obviously issues with these realities, however being a pilot screening to this degree is plain retarded.

Let's see. The pilot must be declining because he is hiding something under his shirt to blow up the plane. Oh wait, that must be one dumb pilot to not think of pushing down on the yolk (sp?).

But seriously, he really doesnt have much of a choice does he? What did he expect, TSA to give him a free pass?
 
I used to have a friend who worked for westjet. They installed retina scanners at the airport in Calgary (or Edmonton, cant remember) and he refused it saying that they have no right to a scan of his eyes. The labor board agreed with him. But then this is Canada and not the states.
 
As long as the lines continue to go fast I don't necessarily care about going through, but the financial cost in personnel and equipment is rising fast, especially considering how few people can get through with PROPER use of old school detectors, and good, well rested employees doing the search. It's still also incredibly difficult to see anything on the bag x-rays, and you can fit way more small difficult to see items in a bag (although you'll probably have a bag search lol). I'd rather have more money spent on updating and refurbishing the average plane, and the equipment for air controllers.

Also, didn't I read about an alternative scanner right here at Toms being developed overseas with newer, better technology that doesn't show nudity? Since if you can't see inside the body, there's still a lot of area to cover lol. Funny but true.

It's too bad for the pilot, but I'm surprised he didn't know about the new policies before they were put into action. Oh well, too many people are just afraid (either of standing up for themselves, or the threat of terrorists/death) to want to get together to complain.
 
Reading the posts again though I didn't think about kids and this procedure. That I don't like, and wouldn't like if I had kids. This is even considering the extensive checks people go through to enter any US government security work.

Oh yeah and I also like the comment about if a pilot wants to kill people they'll just crash the plane. Seriously that's a good point to pass checks. Except they might be sneaking on lots of liquor in their pants, or some crack in their belt lol. Ok maybe they should have the same checks.
 
Security isn't really all that difficult but it requires profiling which always elicits a knee-jerk "not in the U.S.A." and security people trained to interview passengers.

We'd rather turn it all over to technology because we're comfortable with people looking at TV screens. We shouldn't be because they're the same idiots that did the job before 9/11, just in white shirts. The entire security system we've built at our airports is a waste because it's static and predictable which means it's absolutely useless against a determined attacker who takes the time to study the system.
 
Just allow people to excercise their 2nd ammendment right on the plane and we will never have a hijacking ever. We might have a crash, but no hijackings.
 
[citation][nom]windmarkbob[/nom]What’s left? Is no security better than requiring the x-ray or pat-down? Was there a violation of this pilot’s rights in your opinion?[/citation]

[citation]Which constitutional right(s) were violated, how, and by whom if you think they were?[/citation]

Screening of airline passengers violates their 4th amendment rights which protects against unwarranted search and seizure. The TSA has neither a warrant nor probable cause to search each individual airline passenger, thus every single time one is screened, patted down, or strip searched, his or her constitutional rights are being violated. The climate of fear surrounding the possibility of terrorist attacks blinds the American public on this issue, thus nothing is done about it.
 
He is going to fly the stupid plane and they are worried about a bomb or something?? He can just push forward on the controls and crash it!
 
[citation][nom]jupiter optimus maximus[/nom]Well, everyone must be screened, pilot and passenger, but not to this extreme. Its very intrusive to a person's privacy. Israel has a much better system on screening potential terrorists. They did not have to rely on technology, but on human behavior. Asking specific questions and looking at the eye to see if they are acting 'normal.' It would have prevented 9/11 had people opened their eyes instead of sleeping on the job.[/citation]

Yeah, too bad that screening is called profiling and so is illegal (STUPID courts!) in USA
 
[citation][nom]TheCapulet[/nom]They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.[/citation]
He who smelt it, dealt it.
 
Create jobs and protect America from terrorists by putting a sky marshal on every flight with some of the bailout $$$$$
If every pilot does this, they will be forced to change their procedures.
If I was a pilot, nothing you could do with scanning me would prevent me from crashing the plane.
 
Comply with all of their rules and see how far they will push them.

You will continue to get more of your civil rights reduced. How far will you let them go? If the pictures were better quality would that be a problem? How much better? Don't think they won't continue to improve the quality so that they can see more.
 
Good for him. My husband flies quite frequently for work and we are both concerned healthwise the effects of constant scans. They are putting in a scanner were he files out of and my hubby is already planning on opting out for the pat down. We will be ready to go after the airport for lost wages if he misses a flight due to hold up and bullying.
 
This pilot should lose his job. Just because someone works for an airline or works for a shop located past security at the airport doesn't make them exempt from getting screened. If anyone on here falls into these categories then I'm sure you were informed about airport screening procedures as part of your job training. It's probably implied that the screening procedures can change at any time. Maybe you and this pilot should have paid attention before taking that job.
 
He clearly was willing to go through normal traditional screening.
I can't blame him for not wanting to go through the body scan or get heavily searched with hands. While I don't think he should get special privileges I do believe that the searches can go way to far today and invade privacy.

But the real problem in all of this is that people cannot effectively object and protest these searching methods.
The system will not change unless we can effect the system.
The only way to do this would be to boycott air travel in massive numbers. It wouldn't take long before the airlines suffered massive losses and could reverse the laws and regulations through their Washington lobbyists. But this is unrealistic as way to many people require this form of transportation for a variety of reasons.
So we are simply stuck.
 
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