Proview's Lawsuit Over The iPad Name Expands to US Courts

[davewolfgang]

No Rosen - they created a "fake" company, and bought it because it was the 'initials" of that fake company's "name". NOT TO PUT ON A PRODUCT and then say nobody else could use the name.

 

[hoof_hearted]

Couldn't a larger (almost monopolistic, and bent on lawsuits that most "have not" companies couldn't afford to litigate) company be considered the "have"?

 

[rosen380]

As I understand it, they really did create that company called, "IP Application Development Limited".

And if that is the case, then their statement that "IPAD is an abbreviation for the company name..." is 100% factual.

And likewise, "This is a newly formed company, and I'm sure you can understand that we are not ready to publicize what the company's business is, since we have not yet made any public announcements." also would then be a true statement.

And further, "As I said in my last message, I can assure you that the company will not compete with Proview."... well still true. IP Application Development Limited, with no products is not competing with Proview in any way.

So, with the information presented, I'm sticking with deceptive but not a lie and [probably] not illegal. And again, if for Apple [or presumably any large company], the price is $20M, but for new, small company, the price is $20k, then when it is my company, I am going with deceptive, just like you would if Walmart was trying to charge, you in particular, $500 for a $0.50 pack of gum...

 

[blazorthon]

[citation][nom]rosen380[/nom]Taxes are a different animal. The US gov't "needs" $3T per year, which is ~$15k per working person. Probably half the people couldn't pay $15k per year and still survive, so they pay between less and nothing. The 'haves' cover their bit.But, we're not talking about funding a government. We are talking about one company or individual selling a good or service to another company or individual. When you walk into Best Buy, they don't ask for your W2 and then set prices accordingly.I'm not saying I think that making a fake company and saying the name was for them isn't a deceptive practice -- but in an environment where a company with a name worth $20k is going to sell it to you for 1000x as much based on your income, well there are some deceptive thigns you have to do then.[/citation]

To be fair, Apple's fake company said that they wanted the name simply because it was an acronym for the fake company's name and claimed that they wouldn't use it for competing products in the markets.

[citation][nom]rosen380[/nom]As I understand it, they really did create that company called, "IP Application Development Limited". And if that is the case, then their statement that "IPAD is an abbreviation for the company name..." is 100% factual.And likewise, "This is a newly formed company, and I'm sure you can understand that we are not ready to publicize what the company's business is, since we have not yet made any public announcements." also would then be a true statement.And further, "As I said in my last message, I can assure you that the company will not compete with Proview."... well still true. IP Application Development Limited, with no products is not competing with Proview in any way.So, with the information presented, I'm sticking with deceptive but not a lie and [probably] not illegal. And again, if for Apple [or presumably any large company], the price is $20M, but for new, small company, the price is $20k, then when it is my company, I am going with deceptive, just like you would if Walmart was trying to charge, you in particular, $500 for a $0.50 pack of gum...[/citation]


Instead of using it to compete directly, the fake company created by Apple then gave it to Apple, who is using it for competition. The whole process that Apple went through was to coax Proview into selling the ipad name short instead of a fair price.

Also, the name obviously isn't worth only 20$ or $50 if Apple's iPads are raking in tens/hundreds of millions of dollars for Apple.

 

[rosen380]

So, if it was the iSlate or iTab, you are sayign it wouldn't have been roughly as successful? Does the product have that little value compared to the name?

"The whole process that Apple went through was to coax Proview into selling the ipad name short instead of a fair price."

I think it is the reverse. By jumping through these hoops they got the name for fair market value rather than a hugely jacked up price... Proview was no longer using the trademark-- did they shop the name around first before accepting ~$55k for it? If not, then how do they know what market value was and if they did, why didn't they accept one of those numerous better offers?

 

[gm0n3y]

There is nothing wrong with Apple creating a new company just to buy a product name. The issue is if they lied about not competing. That would be a breach of contract.

 

[rosen380]

If the non-compete was in the contract, which reportedly it isn't.

 

[blazorthon]

I made two typos in my post, I meant $20k and $50k, not 20$ and $50.

 

[blazorthon]

[citation][nom]rosen380[/nom]So, if it was the iSlate or iTab, you are sayign it wouldn't have been roughly as successful? Does the product have that little value compared to the name?"The whole process that Apple went through was to coax Proview into selling the ipad name short instead of a fair price."I think it is the reverse. By jumping through these hoops they got the name for fair market value rather than a hugely jacked up price... Proview was no longer using the trademark-- did they shop the name around first before accepting ~$55k for it? If not, then how do they know what market value was and if they did, why didn't they accept one of those numerous better offers?[/citation]

I'm pretty sure that Apple wanted iPad, not iSlate or iTab for a reason. Perhaps they just don't have a ring to them like iPad as far as Apple thought, maybe they are also already owned and by less desperate companies.

Market value of iPad name? Well, I think that it has a HUGE market value right now and anyone would have known that it would be worth a lot had they known what Apple was up to. Apple knew that they would be charged a larger price, s othey hid with deception. This isn't too bad, I can understand this. however, they supposedly lied and that is what I would dispute the most.

How could they shop for the name iPad? ONLY Proview owned it so no one else could have given it too them at any price legally.

Fair market value? They are a multi-billion dollar company and they made a huge amount of money with the name. That name should have been worth millions, not thousands, regardless of Apple's financial state. Besides that, really, what is a million or two in the face of a company worth thousands of times more? It's nothing to them, not even a blip on their profits.

It was a bullcrap move by Apple made even worse if the alleged lying is true. Knowing Apple, I have no doubt of the truth here, but Proview is in an obviously disadvantaged situation and could be lying to protect themselves. To be honest, if this was really a problem for Proview, why not do this law suit earlier? Both sides of this stink, now that I think about it.

 

[rosen380]

"How could they shop for the name iPad? ONLY Proview owned it so no one else could have given it too them at any price legally."

The other way around. If iPad has so much value, then some other company on Earth must have been willing to pay more. Proview either didn't look, or there wasn't anyone else. As they had no product using that name and presumably didn't plan on using it, they sold it for what they could.

"Market value of iPad name? Well, I think that it has a huge market value right now..."

Yeah, right now after Apple added a great product and marketing to the trademark.

"and anyone would have known that it would be worth a lot had they known what Apple was up to. "

Why is that? Because tablets to that point had been so successful? Every tablet before the iPad was somewhere between a failure and a disaster and that includes Apple's first try with the Newton.

"Apple knew that they would be charged a larger price, so they hid with deception. This isn't too bad, I can understand this."

That is the most important part IMO. Something they'd sell for $55k to some unknown company but millions to Apple. Again, how is that different from Best Buy selling me a TV for $500 that they'd charge $500k to Tom Cruise? That is a shady business practice IMO.

"however, they supposedly lied and that is what I would dispute the most."

Going through each of the leaked statements-- they are essentially true. I've posted that above, so I won't bother doing it again. And further, the reports are that Proview neglected to put clauses in the contract about non-compete and such, so they are somewhat to blame if that is the case.

Also, I think it's been pointed out in this thread, but check out this Proview iPad advertisement from when it was a product... http/regmedia.co.uk/2012/02/17/proview_ipad_sina.jpg

From the looks of it, they tried to leech off of Apple's iMac success, by putting out a very similar looking product with a similar sounding name. It seems that Proview enjoys shady business practices when it suits them...

 

[blazorthon]

@rosen380

Maybe no one else wanted the iPad name. Apple wanted it because it would fit with their current naming schemes well, other companies probably didn't have such a thing going for them. Besides, other companies might not have known that Proview was selling anyway.

To be fair, most companies try to leech off of another success. Apple did a very good job of this, although Apple is very good at finding success in markets where the current competitors are not doing too well.

If Proview failed to mention the non-competing thing in their contract(s) with Apple's fake company then this is their fault, but it really looks like both companies had dirt going around with this.

This reminds me of how Bill Gates got DOS. He gave the original writer something like a few hundred or thousand dollars for it, but it helped to made him a billionaire. However, Proview seems more guilty of poor practices then the poor sucker that sold DOS to Gates.

We can argue over which company is worse all we want, but the reality is that it looks like neither company is innocent and neither should be treated as innocent either. This is what investigations are for.

It seems that Proview and Apple enjoy shady business practices when it suits them...

 

[blazorthon]

[citation][nom]reginald17536620[/nom]my co-worker's mother-in-law got paid $16386 past week. she is making an income on the laptop and got a $390800 home. All she did was get fortunate and profit by the steps reported on this web site - LazyCash5.com[/citation]

Enough with the spam already, none of us are stupid.

 

[viciouz2000]

burn in hell IcrApple. I hope they burn in hell. Also besides china i do not believe there is another country capable of producing chips and products such as foxconn. India?? I do not think so, besides isnt india where all the call centers are? china is where are the chips/semiconductor production are?

 

[back_by_demand]

[citation][nom]bunnywanny[/nom]Apple could always threaten China: "If you don't f@*! off, we will export manufacture jobs to some other country that worships us!" I wonder what would Steve Jobs do?[/citation]
China is NOT the country you want to intimidate

1) China is Apples biggest customer
2) Exporting the manufacturing jobs away from China will increase the prodoct cost so that it is no longer competative
3) Acting tough will not look good as they have already been caught lying

They really need to just settle out of court with a fat payoff of $1 billion then STFU

 

[blazorthon]

[citation][nom]viciouz2000[/nom]burn in hell IcrApple. I hope they burn in hell. Also besides china i do not believe there is another country capable of producing chips and products such as foxconn. India?? I do not think so, besides isnt india where all the call centers are? china is where are the chips/semiconductor production are?[/citation]

sorry, but you have NO idea what you are talking about and it's looking like this is just as much Proview's own fault as it is Apple, or at least it's pretty close. India can do semi-conductor work, it depends on the company. India could probably be used just as easily as China, but India is a little more volatile than China, if not much more so. Not that I'm an expert on India nor China, but India does seem less safe of a country.

Besides, China is not where all chips/semiconductors come from. Japan makes a lot of them too, albeit Japan's tend to be better. Malaysia is another viable alternative, AMD uses it for some stuff, although I'm not sure if Malaysia counts as part of another country or not. I'm not too great with foreign geography. At least I can spell most of the names.

 

[blazorthon]

[citation][nom]back_by_demand[/nom]China is NOT the country you want to intimidate1) China is Apples biggest customer2) Exporting the manufacturing jobs away from China will increase the prodoct cost so that it is no longer competative3) Acting tough will not look good as they have already been caught lyingThey really need to just settle out of court with a fat payoff of $1 billion then STFU[/citation]

Honestly, I think that $1Billion is too much for such a settlement, assuming that Apple is the worse offender here. We don't know what really happened yet so it doesn't really matter what we think about the situation unless we assume that all possibilities could be the truth instead of latching onto one possibility that we happen to like.

 

[rosen380]

"2) Exporting the manufacturing jobs away from China will increase the prodoct cost so that it is no longer competitive"

http/www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/05/how-much-would-the-ipad-2-cost-if-it-were-made-in-the-us-about-1-140/238508/

According to that, it would cost about $283 more to assemble an iPad at the $33 average hourly US manufacturing rates than the dollar-something in China.

If Apple was to eat into it's profit margin by splitting that with the consumer [ie, increase the price of each iPad by $142], I think it'd be pretty interesting to see people 'put their money where their mouths are' who are always complaining about everything being outsourced, particularly to China.

As a bonus-- lets say they intend on selling 50M units per year. To make that many will require about 450M man-hours of labor which is 225k full-time jobs. How much extra would you pay for a tablet if you knew that it would mean 225,000 extra full-time jobs in the US with each one averaging $66k in pay and benefits?

It would also cost Apple a couple billion to get manufacturing set up here, which means a whole bunch of additional [somewhat temporary] jobs...

 

[blazorthon]

[citation][nom]rosen380[/nom]"2) Exporting the manufacturing jobs away from China will increase the prodoct cost so that it is no longer competitive"http/www.theatlantic.com/busines [...] 40/238508/According to that, it would cost about $283 more to assemble an iPad at the $33 average hourly US manufacturing rates than the dollar-something in China.If Apple was to eat into it's profit margin by splitting that with the consumer [ie, increase the price of each iPad by $142], I think it'd be pretty interesting to see people 'put their money where their mouths are' who are always complaining about everything being outsourced, particularly to China.As a bonus-- lets say they intend on selling 50M units per year. To make that many will require about 450M man-hours of labor which is 225k full-time jobs. How much extra would you pay for a tablet if you knew that it would mean 225,000 extra full-time jobs in the US with each one averaging $66k in pay and benefits? It would also cost Apple a couple billion to get manufacturing set up here, which means a whole bunch of additional [somewhat temporary] jobs...[/citation]

In order for Apple to move, so too must Foxconn and anyone else who helps to make Apple products, unless they already have sufficient factories in the area to keep up with heavily increased demand from Apple. It would be nice to see my own country, the USA, having so many more jobs, but that also means that China loses hundreds of thousands, perhaps over a million jobs, and that would hurt them dearly, so China might complain, with good reason too.

So, not only would Apple be making less profits, so too would other companies. If Apple tries to move to the USA then the other companies will probably just look for other customers. If they find none, then maybe we will see them move.

All of this is assuming that Apple doesn't deal with those companies unless they move. Apple could just buy their products and have them shipped over to the USA and assemble them here, so China is still a principle part of Apple's products anyway.

Apple moving outside of China just isn't a good move for their profits and it wouldn't help anyone a whole lot beyond increasing prices. It could be a start to moving completely to another country such as the USA, but it is then a long term goal, not a short term.

 

[dalethepcman]

If I was Apple, I would just buy Proview, then hire newscasters to record the (previous) board of directors reactions as you burned all of their buildings down then fired everyone.

This would be cheaper in the short run, and they could make some awesome YouTube videos and a movie out of it.

 

[ericburnby]

[citation][nom]back_by_demand[/nom]China is NOT the country you want to intimidate1) China is Apples biggest customer2) Exporting the manufacturing jobs away from China will increase the prodoct cost so that it is no longer competative3) Acting tough will not look good as they have already been caught lyingThey really need to just settle out of court with a fat payoff of $1 billion then STFU[/citation]
$1 billion? Are you serious? Can you name any product trademark violation in history that went for anywhere near a fraction that amount of money? For example, Apple only paid $4 million for iCloud, and the sellers were dealing directly with Apple so they knew who wanted it and what it was for.

What Proview is asking is criminal, IMO. And their current demands of $1-2 billion shows that Apple was right in using a proxy to deal with them in the first place.

As to China vs Apple I don't think either side will rock the boat. China may be a huge customer but Apple is a huge employer/customer as well. Neither side is going to do something stupid to screw up the good thing they've got going together.

Apple may have been sneaky, but there's nothing illegal about being sneaky. Proview is just pissed they weren't smart enough to think a trademark with an "i" in front would be of any value, especially since the iPod had been out for years and the iPhone was a runaway success at the exact time they sold it. How stupid could you be?