PS Neo, Xbox Scorpio Might Make Me Buy a Gaming PC (Op-Ed)

[AndrewFreedman]

Powerful new PS4, Xbox models are coming sooner than expected. If you have to buy a new console every few years, a PC may be a better deal.

PS Neo, Xbox Scorpio Might Make Me Buy a Gaming PC (Op-Ed) : Read more

 

[Donny Stanley]

I'm a PC user (and hardware reviewer) and I do not own a console and don't plan on buying one either.

Your article misses the point of the Scorpio and Neo, almost entirely. It usesd to be that every 5-8 years, a new console generation would arrive that would break future support for the older generation, as well as compatibility with older games. It would split the player base, because you can only play with users using the same same console as you.

However, that is not the case anymore. With the new approach, these companies can keep iterating on hardware, bringing new customers (are current ones who want an upgrade) more performance and an improved experience without breaking up the community, or breaking support. Halo 6 on Scorpio will be the same Halo 6 on Xbox One, but it'll look better. You'll play with the same players, and if you still own the Xbox One and the Scorpio, you can put them in different rooms and play the game on either one, without buying two copies.

Your argument is "If I buy this today, in a year or two there will be something better and that hurts my feelings" That makes no sense. Buying an Xbox One S today doesn't make your purchase any less secure just because a Scorpio arrives in a year and a half.

 

[AndrewFreedman]

I'm a PC user (and hardware reviewer) and I do not own a console and don't plan on buying one either.

Your article misses the point of the Scorpio and Neo, almost entirely. It usesd to be that every 5-8 years, a new console generation would arrive that would break future support for the older generation, as well as compatibility with older games. It would split the player base, because you can only play with users using the same same console as you.

However, that is not the case anymore. With the new approach, these companies can keep iterating on hardware, bringing new customers (are current ones who want an upgrade) more performance and an improved experience without breaking up the community, or breaking support...

Your argument is "If I buy this today, in a year or two there will be something better and that hurts my feelings" That makes no sense. Buying an Xbox One S today doesn't make your purchase any less secure just because a Scorpio arrives in a year and a half.

Hi! Thanks for reading it. And for the thorough reply.

I see where you're coming from. I am a little miffed that my $400 PS4 wont be the latest soon.

But you'll see in the piece I mentioned keeping your existing PS4 or Xbox One to play more games in the future. I may very well do that myself until I see how it all shakes out.

As a console gamer, my biggest thing to get used to will be the pricing. Because I'm not just a gamer, I'm a techie, and I love having the latest stuff. Admittedly, that's on me. But that's where the value question comes in.

If I do upgrade (and again, I don't have to), it will cost a lot. To match up with what a gaming PC can already do. It's the same for all considering this upgrade.

I'm happy gamers have choices. But this is a big shift in how consoles work from a sales perspective, and everyone should see what's best for them and their limited, hard-end funds. If a PC is the more affordable long term choice, it's a better value. If money is not an issue, you're golden. It won't stop me from gaming.

 

[Godwyn]

Andrew, I can't really agree with you here, no matter how I look at it.

The PS Neo is effectively a pitstop before the next gen (if there is even going to be a next gen) but it's still been three years since the ps4 was released. Compare this to gaming pc upgrades which is typically 18-24 months after you first purchased the machine and you're looking at the same sort of issues mentioned in your article.

Of course with a pc you have to actually decide what to upgrade - a decision which can greatly affect the final performance of the machine. Then once you buy the upgrade part, you have to install it yourself or pay someone to do it for you. Then there will come to a point where you have no choice but to buy a new gaming pc, well a second hand pc is difficult to get rid of, at least with the ps4 sell this pretty quickly or trade it in towards the cost of the ps neo.

To buy the ps neo is to say that you want to play on latest that Sony has to offer, a gaming pc would potentially set you back thousands, if that is what you want; to play on the latest and greatest. Or you can buy a $800 pc and play current games..... or MAYBE just stick with the ps4? Do you see what's wrong with your logical argument here? The introduction of the ps neo has caused you to consider buying a gaming pc even though Sony have stated that the ps4 will be able to play all games that the ps neo can. My conclusion then is that the trigger for you is the fact that it's a latest iteration and you want the best - which I can guarantee you an $800 pc is not going to fill that gap for you. One, that $800 pc is basically 2 year old tech, two, there are always the people who have spend $4000+ on their gaming rigs for you to envy....

The Pc is like the android phone, a variety of models, not 100% sure if the app you downloaded will be fully compatible but hey close enough. The console is like the iphone, you know exactly what you're getting yourself into, and you can almost guarantee that the experience will be the same for everyone with an iphone.

 

[Donny Stanley]

I'm a PC user (and hardware reviewer) and I do not own a console and don't plan on buying one either.

Your article misses the point of the Scorpio and Neo, almost entirely. It usesd to be that every 5-8 years, a new console generation would arrive that would break future support for the older generation, as well as compatibility with older games. It would split the player base, because you can only play with users using the same same console as you.

However, that is not the case anymore. With the new approach, these companies can keep iterating on hardware, bringing new customers (are current ones who want an upgrade) more performance and an improved experience without breaking up the community, or breaking support...

Your argument is "If I buy this today, in a year or two there will be something better and that hurts my feelings" That makes no sense. Buying an Xbox One S today doesn't make your purchase any less secure just because a Scorpio arrives in a year and a half.

Hi! Thanks for reading it. And for the thorough reply.

I see where you're coming from. I am a little miffed that my $400 PS4 wont be the latest soon.

But you'll see in the piece I mentioned keeping your existing PS4 or Xbox One to play more games in the future. I may very well do that myself until I see how it all shakes out.

As a console gamer, my biggest thing to get used to will be the pricing. Because I'm not just a gamer, I'm a techie, and I love having the latest stuff. Admittedly, that's on me. But that's where the value question comes in.

If I do upgrade (and again, I don't have to), it will cost a lot. To match up with what a gaming PC can already do. It's the same for all considering this upgrade.

I'm happy gamers have choices. But this is a big shift in how consoles work from a sales perspective, and everyone should see what's best for them and their limited, hard-end funds. If a PC is the more affordable long term choice, it's a better value. If money is not an issue, you're golden. It won't stop me from gaming.

The issue is, though. If you need to have the latest and greatest available, then buying a gaming PC will be more expensive for you. Trust me, on my platform of choice, we have graphics cards that cost up to $1,000 which are built for gaming, and new ones are released every year or so. Of course, you don't have to buy those to have an enjoyable PC experience. I'm just arguing that if you're the type of person who needs to always hit the ceiling, you're gonna be jumping up and down a lot.

 

[Shaun o]

Here`s a thought, both Sony and Microsoft, could of included a modular design for both of the consoles they currently have on the market.

I am talking in respect to producing a console where for example the Gpu/cpu could be upgraded as an optional feature of both consoles as well as for example system memory expansion.

So people could improve the graphics processing power and memory capacity of consoles in the same way as a PC user simply plugs in a new graphics card or extra memory via provided memory slots, or connectors.

For cpu and Gpu upgrading, using a socket instead of soldering the chips direct to the board using a BGA package.

They say consoles are getting more like Pc`s and the whole point of both Sony and Microsoft using the Ati based cpu package was so less work was needed to be done for creating games over cross platform.

So why is it the case Sony and Microsoft did not go the socket based solution ? Oh yeah because they would make less money with upgrades than selling you a new complete console, where they just upgraded the Gpu and cpu capability`s plus the memory amount soldered direct to the motherboard.

 

[timbozero]

I am sorry but this is ridiculous. The cost of your new console will be less than a high end (not even flagship) graphics card for your PC, and assuming you don't sell the older model you will then have two fully compatible consoles. It will also have an upgraded CPU and memory from the (same generation) older model console (not to mention a few less notable improvements).
'We' play on consoles not for the very best performance, we play for the comfort of a nice living room chair, a big screen (yes PCs can as well but generally have a 20-26" monitor) and for the arguably great online service and exclusives.

 

[thinsoldier]

The secret to affordable PC gaming is a do-it-yourself attitude. A junked pc from a going out of business sale plus $200 can give you something that easily plays Crysis. After that you just upgrade the videocard every 2 or 3 years until they start making games that need a new generation of CPU or your new video card needs a better power supply so you'll have to upgrade that eventually. Most people don't have that attitude obviously.

 

[Suzuki@1473780084@1473780163]

The new consoles are going to sell so well.

People don't realise that they can sell them "cheap", because they can both take a loss for every sale without any problems, they're both giants. Sony basically owns Hollywood, and we don't know how many sister companies buy other companies and so on and so forth, but they're GIANTS, and Microsoft have Windows and other companies.

Do people seriously think that they're going full price vs PC price/performance? Wow...

They also make the most money on games and features, not the consoles. A gaming PC for the same price isn't going to be possible this time, and it actually wasn't when the Xbox One/PS4 came out, but it is today, which is changing again in about 1½ years from now.

The amount of performance they're going to get out of these consoles is absolutely crazy. People should not and cannot compare the specs directly to a gaming PC.

I find it absolutely hilarious that the console market are pushing 4k before the PC market. The key is affordable, which gaming PC's aren't.

And yes, you definitely missed the point, by a mile. I see that as a clickbait, which is sad, because I like Tom's.

 

[HypatiaRising]

I love that people are just making massive assumptions about these new consoles prices and saying that they are pushing 4k before consoles. 4k has existed on PC for a few years now, its just that it has not been fully supported by developers because it was so niche. But a 1070 or 1080 can easily do 4k gaming. One of the big things is that when PC gamers talk about 4k, it is usually in terms of 4k on ultra at 60fps. Many cards can do 4k, but only a couple can do 4k on ultra. For comparison, the consoles cant even hit ultra equivalent settings on 1080 most the time, and thats at 30 fps.

These consoles are not likely to do a 4k on ultra at 60fps equivalent, though it is possible. With no real information on specs (6 teraflops isnt all that illuminating) or price there really isn't much to say about these new consoles. They are interesting, but long term, PC gaming is still the most economical way to go.

You upgrade when you WANT to. My HD 7870 which came out in 2012 is still a good card. It is still more powerful than either console. But more importantly, now that I am looking to upgrade, the only thing I really need to upgrade at this point is the GPU, everything else is still compatible and works great. Thus, even if I got the best GPU in the world right now, the Nvidia 1080, it would cost me $600 (which is overpriced right now since it just released). That 1080 in my existing system is almost certainly still significantly more powerful than the Neo or the Scorpio.

PC gaming is all about what you want to get out of it. You can easily build a PC that is significantly better than the PS4 for the same price. But you can also get a supreme holy * build if you want. Then, when you feel like it, you can upgrade. When I upgrade my PC with the 1070 in the next 2 months, it will cost me $380 for what will likely be similar or better performance than the Neo or Scorpio. What will those new consoles cost in 18 months? They almost certainly wont be cheaper than my simple GPU upgrade.

For those concerned about how "difficult" it is to build a PC or they think that you have to have a lot of tech know-how in general for PC gaming, its not true. I knew nothing when I built my PC and it took like an hour to get everything set up and installed. It's adult legos. And pretty much any game on PC is just a matter of selecting the game and playing. Again, you can go deeper and do other things, but YOU DONT HAVE TO. If you just wanna play your games, its every bit as easy to do just that. Meanwhile, you now also have a PC that is great for a million other purposes outside of gaming.

Also, I hear Steam Sales are pretty baller.

<Language, please>

 

[HypatiaRising]

I am sorry but this is ridiculous. The cost of your new console will be less than a high end (not even flagship) graphics card for your PC, and assuming you don't sell the older model you will then have two fully compatible consoles. It will also have an upgraded CPU and memory from the (same generation) older model console (not to mention a few less notable improvements).
'We' play on consoles not for the very best performance, we play for the comfort of a nice living room chair, a big screen (yes PCs can as well but generally have a 20-26" monitor) and for the arguably great online service and exclusives.

Considering we know very little about the new consoles, saying really anything about what they will be is nonsense. I can say that I can upgrade my existing PC with just a gpu purchase of the 1070 (second best gpu out right now in terms of performance) and almost certainly match or exceed the neo/scorpio performance. The kicker? I can do so for $380 18 months earlier. My initial entry into PC gaming happened 3 years ago, and it was more expensive initially(~600), but it was also more powerful (My 7870 is about 40% more powerful than a ps4). Now I will likely be able to upgrade and stay ahead of the curve for less. Sounds pretty economical to me, and that's before you get to all the game deals you can get on pc with Steam sales an such.

Also, you CAN pc game on your couch. My PC was hooked up to my TV until recently. Not as great for RTS games, but console games still play every bit as well for obvious reasons.

 

[Suzuki@1473780084@1473780163]

You too are missing the point. And if I can't make "assumptions", then why can you? Give me a break.....

And I never said that you can't build a PC that beats the PS4/Xbox One for the same price. I said that you can now after several years, because it wasn't possible last year for instance.

The console development process is going to yield far better performance than a PC with the same specs. 30 FPS or 60 FPS, we don't know yet, and no point speculating because that decision is up to the developers, not the makers of the console.

However, please list the full price of your PC, and we'll see how much you paid, and how much performance you get.

When the Xbox originally came out, it was way ahead PC's in price/performance, and they're looking to do the same thing right now, while stealing the entire VR market for the entry level gamers, i.e every parent buying consoles for christmas, which is more than you think. That is just not the 1% enthusiast market of PC, this is big.

And because of it, expect current PC VR to drop in price, because after these two come out, it won't be sustainable if all the consumer wants is the VR experience...

It's easier to buy a console and plug it in, because parents and "casual" gamers (hate that word) simply don't want or have to learn anything, other than how to turn it on.

Whether or not it's easy or hard to build a PC, is 100% irrelevant in this
conversation.

The impact these new consoles are going to have is going to be massive. I based that on a educated guess based on the history of these two companies. You based your guess on nothing-ness.

 

[William_118]

As a PC gamer the pressure to upgrade is totally on you. The fact is, if you are a tech-head and you love the latest stuff, surely more options to access that is a positive? It may sate a certain lack of self-control in some people, but really, this is just a consumer product.

It IS a very important difference that you aren't being forced to upgrade in order to gain access to next-gen games, as is normally the case for a console refresh. It's giving you the choice to have shinier versions of the same games.

All that's happening is the hardware options that have always been available on PC are in their own way coming over to consoles. You just make the choice on if you want to be on the cutting-edge or not. How important are graphics?

My answer is 'very important', because I like games with good gameplay, AND I want them to look as good as possible within my budget. Forza and Witcher 3 look very nice at 4k-- but I am fully aware that I'm not getting a better gameplay experience. Again, one has to decide if this kind of investment is worth it.

 

[ien2222]

One thing no one has mentioned, besides the gaming aspect you'll be getting an ultra HD Blu Ray player in those. Currently those are going for few hundred, last time I looked $300+ was the cheapest and I haven't seen any as a component for the PC.

 

[Suzuki@1473780084@1473780163]

^
Current blu ray players can already do it, but it's the software that cost a bit more on PC.

So far I've seen no arguments that can be backed up other than those two downvoted. Absolutely hilarious how far people go to defend PC's as the best thing on the planet, when numbers don't lie.

 

[ien2222]

My apologies, when I meant component, I also mean to include the firmware, I should have been more specific. I've heard some rumors that a couple LG drives will recognize a disk is in though I believe Windows still thinks it's corrupted data and unusable. But last I looked was a couple of months ago, maybe there are some new drives that support it. Either way there's no software yet for it that I'm aware of.

 

[Suzuki@1473780084@1473780163]

My apologies, when I meant component, I also mean to include the firmware, I should have been more specific. I've heard some rumors that a couple LG drives will recognize a disk is in though I believe Windows still thinks it's corrupted data and unusable. But last I looked was a couple of months ago, maybe there are some new drives that support it. Either way there's no software yet for it that I'm aware of.

The thing is though, I believe this thread is about the Scorpio. However, they're releasing an Xbox called Xbox One S for the same price as the current Xbox, that supports 4k UHD blu rays and HDR.

A huge problem I have with this whole upgrade phase is that so many people don't run HDR. The biggest difference between 1080p and 2160p is HDR, the resolution difference is hardly even noticeable outside of games.

So, for a media playback device the Xbox One S won't be beat, but again, I think this is just an odd thing to put out on the market, considering it offers no improvements other than size, the built in powerbrick, and 4k UHD compatible.

If anything, it's a direct competitor/beating the dedicated 4k UHD blu ray players. So, they're definitely going to get more people on Xbox, even if they don't choose to play games. They probably see that part as a bonus.

For the record, here is the software for 4k UHD playback: http/www.cyberlink.com/products/powerdvd-ultra/features_en_EU.html?&r=1

 

[ien2222]

4k playback yes, but nothing that supports ultra HD BD playback.
http/www.cyberlink.com/support/product-faq-content.do?id=19074&prodId=1&prodVerId=1229&CategoryId=-1&keyword=


This thread is an op-ed where the op suggested that the new xbox/ps systems are going to fragment the consoles along with making them more disposable ala tablets and phones and going the PC route might be better. I offered a counter that these new consoles will also have a a lot of worth given that ultra HD BD drives will be included especially given the prices of standalone players and no PC support at this time. As for the S, it will have an upgraded cpu and gpu so there is some worth there.

When both were being development neither MS or Sony could include 4k playback, just bad timing, but both want to be a hub for entertainment and they think 4k (including 4:4:4 and HDR-HDR10) is needed now. Given the prices of TV's I'd agree with that assessment (with the understanding that these are coming out in 2017). As far as the S vs. Scorpio, a significant portion probably doesn't want the VR aspect so why force people to by the extra horsepower necessary for that.

 

[Suzuki@1473780084@1473780163]

Great catch! I didn't think of actually researching it, considering 4k/blu ray was listed under playback on the front page. Kind of misleading that.

The Xbox One S is coming out in 2 months, the Xbox Scorpio (which they haven't given a name yet), is coming out next year, 2 consoles in total.

The Xbox One S isn't being given a new CPU and GPU. It's the same as the one we have right now, but smaller and 4k support.

 

[ien2222]

The S does include a newer/better CPU and GPU, I know that was needed for HDR. It's probably why they could make it smaller and include the PS in the chassis (reduced power/thermal requirements).