PV-HS2000 Motherboard sources?

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Its called a common mode transient. It comes down all wires
simultaneously. So what does the plug-in protector see?
Nothing. It sees no voltage difference - therefore sees no
surge - does nothing. That same common mode surge then
continues on through adjacent computer to damage the
computer. What did the plug-in protector do? Nothing.

The only way a protector is going to see that kind of surge
is to connect to earth ground. So and again - those plug-in
protectors have all but no earth ground - no effective
protection.

We have houses full of refrigerators and furnace that turn
off and on all day. Where are all the radios, LED alarm
clocks, dimmer switches, and microwave ovens destroyed daily
by these household appliances? No such damage exists. Once
we apply numbers, no destructive surge exists from the
refrigerator or furnace. Again, those are only noise
sources. Any protection from that noise already exists in all
appliances.

It is only the destructive surge - ie. the direct lightning
strike - that we are concerned for. That means a 'whole
house' protector is required so that the destructive surge
will not overwhelm protection inside all appliances.

Joules is how we determine surge protector life expectancy.
A plug-in or UPS protector rated at 345 joules actually may
only use 115 joules and never more than 230 joules in
protection. Lets compare this to the 1000 joule 'whole house'
protector that uses all its joules. If the 345 protector is
good for two same sized surges, then the 1000 joule 'whole
house protectors is good for something like 200 same sized
surges. The effectiveness of joules increases exponentially.
1000 joules is considered minimal. Equivalent in a plug-in
protector would be 3000 joules.

Now we spend tens of times more money on the plug-in
protector - and it does not provide sufficient joules? Just
another in a long list of reasons why plug-in protectors are
not effective.

But now it gets interesting. How to increase sales. Sell a
grossly undersized plug-in protector. A surge insufficient to
overwhelm internal appliance protection instead damages the
grossly undersized protector. Then the naive homeowner says,
"The protector sacrificed itself to protect my computer."
Obvious not true. The plug-in protector failed. The
computer's own internal protection saved the computer. But
the naive homeowner buys more of that ineffective plug-in
protector AND he recommends it to friends. Grossly
undersizing the protector means more profits - the consumer be
damned.

There are no significant advantages to plug-in protectors.
Anything they would be doing is already performed by the
properly sized, better located, and tens of times less
expensive 'whole house' protector.

Quintin wrote:
>
> AH AH AH AH, okay, <still laughing from example>,
> so a surge protector is SOME* protection
> but not total protection
> okay gotcha
>
> It sounds like joules is the magic number to look for.
> the more, the better

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

w_tom wrote:
> When grounding is not enough to protect from direct
> lightning strikes, well, we return again to the bottom line
> expression. A surge protector is only as effective as its
> earth ground. The earth ground was insufficient - a human
> failure.
>
> Polyphaser is a benchmark in this protection industry. Do
> they discuss their products in application notes? Of course
> not. Polyphaser is a benchmark because they provide such
> effective protection. Polyphaser discusses earthing
> extensively:
> http/www.polyphaser.com/ppc_technical.asp
> When a direct strike does damage, then the first place to
> start is to suspect a defective earth ground.
>
> Protecting from direct lightning strike is routine. 25
> direct strikes every year to FM and TV equipment on the Empire
> State Building. 40 direct strikes every year were to the
> WTC. Where is all the damage?
>
> Aircraft are routinely struck by lightning every year.
> Where are all the aircraft failing from the sky due to
> lightning?
>

You are equating survival with "no damage" and making a few other errors.

CMOS happens to be fairly rugged, true, it is sensitive, but it's also
rugged,

Aircraft are not grounded, they are, howver, very good "Shields" They
are also flown by means that are not, entierly, electronic (The
electronics are called navigational aids, they don't (usually) fly the
plane other than the auto pilot and that is why we have a manual pilot)

Those strikes you cite on the various tall buildings... Often require
repair of equipment. The strike I mentioned, equipment needed repair
afterwords. Including some of the hardware that was in the building 100
yards away

Good grounding and design can limit damage, But Ligitining will damage

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

w_tom wrote:

> We have houses full of refrigerators and furnace that turn
> off and on all day. Where are all the radios, LED alarm
> clocks, dimmer switches, and microwave ovens destroyed daily
> by these household appliances? No such damage exists. Once
> we apply numbers, no destructive surge exists from the
> refrigerator or furnace. Again, those are only noise
> sources. Any protection from that noise already exists in all
> appliances.

Never had a computer wiped out by a refrigerator kicking in eh. Well I
have (Thankfully it was a work computer not a personal one

You are using a bad example. You are saying "Oh the AC just kicked in
and nothing blew up" I'm responding "This time"

Damage builds up when power surges. Now.. Some hardware has built in
sure protection (IE: anything I build, and yes, I do design and build)
and some is very well designed and can shrug off most power surges
(again, I tend to over build when designing a power supply to take care
of this) but most gear is designed for the enhancement of the bottom
line and does not much like surges

Surges and spikes are like carpel tunnel... IT's called a repetitive
stress injury. No single press of a keyboard key causes the pain but
all of them put together and you are hurting. This is the kind of
"Stress" that the surge protector is designed to protect against.


> It is only the destructive surge - ie. the direct lightning
> strike - that we are concerned for. That means a 'whole
> house' protector is required so that the destructive surge
> will not overwhelm protection inside all appliances.

That is what INSURANCE is for

> Joules is how we determine surge protector life expectancy.
> A plug-in or UPS protector rated at 345 joules actually may
> only use 115 joules and never more than 230 joules in
> protection. Lets compare this to the 1000 joule 'whole house'
> protector that uses all its joules. If the 345 protector is
> good for two same sized surges, then the 1000 joule 'whole
> house protectors is good for something like 200 same sized
> surges. The effectiveness of joules increases exponentially.
> 1000 joules is considered minimal. Equivalent in a plug-in
> protector would be 3000 joules.
>
> Now we spend tens of times more money on the plug-in
> protector - and it does not provide sufficient joules? Just
> another in a long list of reasons why plug-in protectors are
> not effective.
>
> But now it gets interesting. How to increase sales. Sell a
> grossly undersized plug-in protector. A surge insufficient to
> overwhelm internal appliance protection instead damages the
> grossly undersized protector. Then the naive homeowner says,
> "The protector sacrificed itself to protect my computer."
> Obvious not true. The plug-in protector failed. The
> computer's own internal protection saved the computer. But
> the naive homeowner buys more of that ineffective plug-in
> protector AND he recommends it to friends. Grossly
> undersizing the protector means more profits - the consumer be
> damned.
>
> There are no significant advantages to plug-in protectors.
> Anything they would be doing is already performed by the
> properly sized, better located, and tens of times less
> expensive 'whole house' protector.
>

There is, in fact, an advantage to plug in units in some installations
but a whole house job is a good idea indeed.

And yes, Joules is the key, the more the better

 

[ME]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

I've had the same problems with the video inputs, don't know why it happens.
usually after a crash/freeze and you reset the unit (hold down the power
button) it will restart but the video will not work (black screen). For
some reason, if you unplug it and leave it off for a few minutes 5+ minutes
or more, it will work again after you plug it back in. I've tried
unplugging for a short period, less than 1 minute, and it doesn't fix the
problem.


"Quintin" <fred@fred.frd> wrote in message
news:T0NVc.32004$cT6.14867@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
> Mike's email reply came back.
> (He's even on the same email address as a year ago
> -- it's amazing the spam hasn't ruined it.)
>
> He told me to unplug it, so I did (30 minutes).
> That's all it took, that fixed it.
>
> This Mike Menard is a great guy,
> from this, and my past experiences.
>
> I would like to think I would have eventually
> tried this on my own, but maybe not, 'who knows?'.....
>
> Anyway, thanks Mike,
>
> Quintin
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Me wrote:

> I've had the same problems with the video inputs, don't know why it happens.
> usually after a crash/freeze and you reset the unit (hold down the power
> button) it will restart but the video will not work (black screen). For
> some reason, if you unplug it and leave it off for a few minutes 5+ minutes
> or more, it will work again after you plug it back in. I've tried
> unplugging for a short period, less than 1 minute, and it doesn't fix the
> problem.
>
>
A warm reboot does not clear all modem registers and other system parts.
You have to unplug and allow the ps capacitors to drain.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

A warm reboot does reset all modem registers, etc. That is
if the modem driver is properly written. But then a warm boot
even resets all peripherals because the PCI bus goes through a
very comprehensive reinitialization process. The setup for
PCI alone is about as complex as DOS. PCI and PnP is an
Operating System in itself - it is that complex.

This warm boot initialization assumes a design defect does
not exist. Bootup process is rather involved. But if a
computer's power cord is completely removed from a system for
15 seconds, and the computer does not properly boot, then
there is an internal hardware problem with that computer.
Probably a design problem.

To better understand bootups is a discussion entitled
"Booting - Hot and Cold - 101" at:

http/www.bitzenbytes.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=3492

Bottom line - if it takes power removed for more than but a
few seconds to reset a machine, then the machine somewhere has
a design problem.

That was power removed both from computer AND from monitor.
Not just turned off. You must remove both power cords for a
few seconds.

Tony D wrote:
> Me wrote:
>> I've had the same problems with the video inputs, don't know why
>> it happens. usually after a crash/freeze and you reset the unit
>> (hold down the power button) it will restart but the video will
>> not work (black screen). For some reason, if you unplug it and
>> leave it off for a few minutes 5+ minutes or more, it will work
>> again after you plug it back in. I've tried unplugging for a
>> short period, less than 1 minute, and it doesn't fix the problem.
> >
> A warm reboot does not clear all modem registers and other system parts.
> You have to unplug and allow the ps capacitors to drain.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

w_tom wrote:

> A warm reboot does reset all modem registers, etc. That is
> if the modem driver is properly written. But then a warm boot
> even resets all peripherals because the PCI bus goes through a
> very comprehensive reinitialization process. The setup for
> PCI alone is about as complex as DOS. PCI and PnP is an
> Operating System in itself - it is that complex.
>
> This warm boot initialization assumes a design defect does
> not exist. Bootup process is rather involved. But if a
> computer's power cord is completely removed from a system for
> 15 seconds, and the computer does not properly boot, then
> there is an internal hardware problem with that computer.
> Probably a design problem.
>

I'm not sure fifteen seconds is long enough to fully drain the power
supply however my normal method involves counting to ten slowly so I
guess fifteen seconds should be enough.

I do know I had to use that method once myself

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

w_tom wrote:
> A warm reboot does reset all modem registers, etc. That is
> if the modem driver is properly written. But then a warm boot
> even resets all peripherals because the PCI bus goes through a
> very comprehensive reinitialization process. The setup for
> PCI alone is about as complex as DOS. PCI and PnP is an
> Operating System in itself - it is that complex.
>
> This warm boot initialization assumes a design defect does
> not exist. Bootup process is rather involved. But if a
> computer's power cord is completely removed from a system for
> 15 seconds, and the computer does not properly boot, then
> there is an internal hardware problem with that computer.
> Probably a design problem.
>
> To better understand bootups is a discussion entitled
> "Booting - Hot and Cold - 101" at:
>
> http/www.bitzenbytes.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=3492
>
> Bottom line - if it takes power removed for more than but a
> few seconds to reset a machine, then the machine somewhere has
> a design problem.
>
> That was power removed both from computer AND from monitor.
> Not just turned off. You must remove both power cords for a
> few seconds.

My comment was not about what SHOULD be true, it was about what IS true.
A warm reboot will not clear many instances of a fouled REPLAY.

 

[ME]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

When this happens, the machine still works, it records and it does
everything except show Live video. Recorded shows/video works. Somehow the
video inputs are messed up but everything else seems to work. The only
solution is to unplug and wait approximately 5 or more minutes.
Someone not familiar with this will think they have a damaged / blown Replay
unit (as did the original poster!)

My point is that is SHOULD work after you unplug power for less than 2
minutes. It shouldn't take that long for the machine to properly drain power
and reset. I've unpluged and waited 30 seconds or a minute, and it
wouldn't solve the problem. This is not just a fluke, because I have owned
the Reply for about 5 years now and it happens once or a few times a year
(after some sort of crash)

I agree that there is a design problem somewhere in the units to cause this
type of failure. (Bad power supply?)



"Tony D" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:8cWdnYikltIYZrDcRVn-rA@comcast.com...
> w_tom wrote:
> > A warm reboot does reset all modem registers, etc. That is
> > if the modem driver is properly written. But then a warm boot
> > even resets all peripherals because the PCI bus goes through a
> > very comprehensive reinitialization process. The setup for
> > PCI alone is about as complex as DOS. PCI and PnP is an
> > Operating System in itself - it is that complex.
> >
> > This warm boot initialization assumes a design defect does
> > not exist. Bootup process is rather involved. But if a
> > computer's power cord is completely removed from a system for
> > 15 seconds, and the computer does not properly boot, then
> > there is an internal hardware problem with that computer.
> > Probably a design problem.
> >
> > To better understand bootups is a discussion entitled
> > "Booting - Hot and Cold - 101" at:
> >
> > http/www.bitzenbytes.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=3492
> >
> > Bottom line - if it takes power removed for more than but a
> > few seconds to reset a machine, then the machine somewhere has
> > a design problem.
> >
> > That was power removed both from computer AND from monitor.
> > Not just turned off. You must remove both power cords for a
> > few seconds.
>
> My comment was not about what SHOULD be true, it was about what IS true.
> A warm reboot will not clear many instances of a fouled REPLAY.

 

[Greg]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

In a switcher power supply the discharge time for the capacitors is measured in
milliseconds.
The "ripple" they are dealing with is 20khz or so. That is the reason they do
switching in the first place, to hold down the size of the componants.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

One spot I would look for a problem is bypass resistors on
main electrolytic capacitors (inside power supply). Those
resistors are installed to discharge capacitors in but seconds
- necessary for human safety. It is possible that the safety
resistor is failed. But I don't advise you to dig in and fix
them.

Another discharge circuit (inside the motherboard). For
example, the essential master reset circuit (using a
simplistic and inexpensive design) might use a diode to
discharge the master reset timing capacitor. With a missing
diode, then a master reset capacitor might take many minutes
to discharge - so that it can master reset all registers on
power up. Again, computers must reset all registers on every
powerup. But it cannot initialize if the master reset circuit
is defective.

These are only possibilities that would cause unique
behavior in that one unit. Furthermore they demonstrate a well
proven concept from W E Deming: "Inspection to improve quality
is too late, ineffective, costly. ... Quality comes not from
inspection, but from improvement of the production process."
This failure would be directly traceable to a factory defect.
A defect that always existed but that took how long to first
notice?

Me wrote:
> When this happens, the machine still works, it records and it does
> everything except show Live video. Recorded shows/video works.
> Somehow the video inputs are messed up but everything else seems
> to work. The only solution is to unplug and wait approximately
> 5 or more minutes. Someone not familiar with this will think they
> have a damaged / blown Replay unit (as did the original poster!)
>
> My point is that is SHOULD work after you unplug power for less
> than 2 minutes. It shouldn't take that long for the machine to
> properly drain power and reset. I've unpluged and waited 30
> seconds or a minute, and it wouldn't solve the problem. This
> is not just a fluke, because I have owned the Reply for about
> 5 years now and it happens once or a few times a year
> (after some sort of crash)
>
> I agree that there is a design problem somewhere in the units
> to cause this type of failure. (Bad power supply?)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

= Again, computers must reset all registers on every
> powerup.

Cause a foul-up on your scsi bus and a warm reboot on your PC won't work
either most o the time.