Realtek ALC889 good enough for new headphones?

[deadlockedworld]

Hi Folks,

I am looking to upgrade from my Logitech G35 to a real audiophile headphone (the G35 is literally falling apart). I use the headphones for 80% gaming/20% music/video. I'm a little bit noob to audio and need help.

Since this will be my first time really using my onboard audio -- is my ASUS P8P67 Deluxe, w/ Realtek ALC889 good enough to drive audiophile headphones or do I need an amp/soundcard? (I'm looking in the $150-250 range - probably something like an Audio Technica ATH-AD900X, beyerdynamic Custom One Pro Plus, or Beyerdynamic DT-990-Pro.)

Other questions:
-Does my motherboard impact a decision between 32 OHM or 250 OHM models of headphones?
-Since I have a six-jack 7.1 output or optical output ... should I be utilizing those in some way instead of just the stereo jack?
-I will go into a store and try some open-back headphones before I actually purchase, but any thoughts on headphones are welcome too -- I'm looking for one that replicates surround sound well.

Thanks in advance!


MORE INFO:
Realtek® ALC889 8-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC
- Absolute Pitch 192khz/24bit True BD Lossless Sound
- BD Audio Layer Content Protection
- DTS Surround Sensation UltraPC
- Supports Jack-Detection, Multi-streaming and Front Panel Jack-Retasking
- Coaxial / Optical S/PDIF out ports at back I/O

 

[ssddx]

can your onboard power headphones?
hard to say as motherboard onboard varies significantly in power output. in many cases headphones like ad-500x series or hd518 series are able to be powered fine but harder to drive headphones are not.

should i use onboard audio?
this is the big question as to whether you should get a soundcard or external dac/dacamp. if you notice crackling, distortion, other audio issues or if it doesnt support things like virtual surround you may certainly want to upgrade and not use onboard. if it is not powerful enough to drive the headphones but otherwise sounds fine its possible to just get an amplifier to help power headphones as well.

does your onboard imact your decision?
somewhat, as in any case there is always a chance you might need to get extra equipment if your onboard is poor. i would pick out what headphones you want first and just leave extra budget in case you need an amp or soundcard.

should i use 7.1 out or optical?
headphones do not use either. i suppose you could connect certain external dac units up with optical however there is no point to that so no. the only headsets (not headphones) which use 7.1 analog are some of the gaming ones however its unrealistic and fake sounding. not sure if any use optical but i've not heard of it.

i'm looking for one that replicates surround sound well?
headphones are 2.0 stereo only. they do make "true" surround sound models which have multiple drivers in each ear however quality suffers and they sound fake. the other option is virtual surround sound which distorts audio to make it seem like a surround sound setup. also fake, but can be done a bit more tastefully and seamlessly than multiple drivers.

as far as some actual advice on what to buy..

you need to let us know what kind of signature you want from headphones. the ad500x/700x/900x headphones are bass light which makes them advantageous for gaming. the huge soundstage and positional audio makes them good for gaming as well. they are however not bassy so may not sound good if you like tons of bass. the dt990 on the other hand while still open with good treble has quite significant bass for open cans in the price category so you lose a bit of advantage but gain more in immersion and fun factor. soundstaging is not quite as good but still decent. the hd518/558/598 lineup is between the two and is more neutral and laid back. as for the custom one pro... it os heavily overshadowed by the dt770 in all areas except portability and ease of powering them. the dt770 is bassier than the dt990 but has a similar v-shaped signature. surprisingly the dt770 has a decent soundstage considering its a closed can. keep in mind that decent amplifiers also have a cost. if you dont want to spend much more than the $150 i would avoid anything hard to drive (dt990 setup can cost $300-350 total, dt770 can cost over $200)

let us know what kind of signature you want as right now you're all over the board with various products with varying requirements. until you nail something down its hard to advise.

given that old board with poor onboard audio if you want to get serious it definitely would be worth an upgrade

my suggestion if you have a tight budget? go with something like either the hd558 with a soundcard or ad700x with a soundcard. while you could certainly go without a soundcard as a test i would budget one just in case you need one. if you want bassier you could certainly look at the custom one pro or vmoda headphones.

 

[MasterofLego]

generally, on-board audio is good, but don't have enough power to drive anything above ~32 Ohms at a respectable volume. I use the on-board audio on my Asus Z97-E (ALC892) with an Artcessories HeadAmp4, and my ATH-M50Xs, and it is plenty loud. sound quality is not an issue.

 

[deadlockedworld]

Thank you. Both of these answers were helpful.

I agree that I am all over the map on this one. I need to go try some of these out in-store before committing to a soundstage. I am probably leaning toward the large soundstage/positional audio since I am accustomed to the fake surround sound.

While I am not really price constrained, I'm not sure how much the quality difference is worth to me. Some first-hand experience should help with that too. (The recommendations are very helpful too -- the 558 is cheap enough that its almost worth an impulse buy to just try it and find out.)

Two more questions before I let this thread sit for a couple of weeks and go to a store:

-Where is the sweet spot for a simple soundcard? (I know nothing about them)
-I have seen recommendations for some relatively inexpensive external amps. Is that needed with a soundcard/worth it without a soundcard?

Thanks so much.

 

[ssddx]

commiting to a "sound signature" you mean. soundstaging is different and refers to how much depth of field headphones appear to have as far as 3d audio is concerned.

-soundcards etc
products worth noting:
xonar dg $30. if your onboard is crap or doesnt have the features you need this is as good as "good" onboard and cheap.
xonar dx $75. if you are using an external amp along with a soundcard or if you are using easy to drive headphones this gives you the most quality for the money since it uses the same dac chip as the stx. its amp is fairly weak though.
creative z $75. if you need something with enough power for cans which need a bit more juice this is a good choice. it is not powerful enough to satisfy power hungry cans though. if you are going to use an external amp, i'd go with the dx instead so you arent double-amping a whole lot.
fiio e10k $85. nice external dac+amp unit great for stereo sound. can power easy and medium level headphones easy enough and bypasses your onboard audio for quality sound.
fiio e12 $130. good budget amp which can handle even some of the hard to drive cans.
schiit magni $120 and schiit modi $120. good AMP and DAC externals. the amp alone is strong and can power most any headphone choice you will have. the dac is great for the money and they are often paired. the amp of course can be used on its own attached to your onboard sound (if your onboard is any good).
fiio a3 $60. good choice to power easier to power headphones. not enough to power high demand cans.
other good choices i'm not going to list the prices of (tired of amazon checking but they are in the 100-200 range): o2 amp + odac (o2 is amp, odac is the kit you can get added for a dac to make it into a dac+amp combo), audioengine d1 dac+amp

-dac, amp and soundcard
as far as the dac portion is concerned, its up to you what you want to do. soundcards can be used for this and offer such features as virtual surround sound, mic input jacks and connections for speakers. external dac offer only stereo sound however generally at a higher quality than soundcards. as far as the amp portion is concerned soundcard amps are generally strong enough for easy to power headphones at minimum and for versions with strong amps like the z they can handle medium level headphones as well. harder to power cans however benefit from an actual headphone amp. if your headphones can be easily powered then you could get away with just a soundcard, if not then you would need an amp. the amp could be hooked up to either your onboard audio (if its any good, though its questionable if its going to detract from your experience, a soundcard output (ideally to an unamped line out jack) or to an external dac. of course there are combination external dac+amp units (fiio e10k and similar)

 

[deadlockedworld]

Hey there,

Thanks so much for the help ssddx and others. I thought I should close this thread so future readers know what I did and how it went. Here is my (still novice) opinion on my experience:

My Purchase:
I ended up purchasing a $150 set of Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro open-back headphones along with a $75 Fiio e10k external dac+amp.

The headphones are wonderful and amazing. In the end, since I use the headphones for all purposes, I decided I wanted something with a good soundstage but still a little bit "fun" with bass/etc. This is one reason I chose this model over close top competitors Audiotechnica AD900x and Sennheiser 558/598.

My experience:
Overall, there is huge difference from my old Logitech G35 headset, but it shows up in some areas more than others:

-Music that has been recorded live or is not digitally enhanced is massively better with the new setup (Queen and Jimi Hendrix for example sound awesome). On the inverse - electronic music, techno, etc often do not really sound all that much different. I believe the better soundstage and quality allows me to differentiate between instruments in a band in a way that I never could before -- so more complex music sounds much better. Simple pop songs just don't change as much.

-I've started using the equalizer controls on music programs now. I did not previously provide much difference -- now it does.

- I tried surround sound software on my computer with these. It did not match the fake surround ability of the 5.1 G35 headset. So, despite the fact that the headphones are better -- they are better at stereo. If you want the best surround you should probably get a high end gaming headset.

-Before purchasing I was worried about the amount of noise an "open" headset would make. You should not worry about that unless another person is sitting right next to you when using them. At full normal volume, I can only faintly hear the headphones about 2-3 feet away,

FIIO E10K - I do believe that these improve the sound. The bass boost is also nice since for the occasional hip-hop song (since I did not purchase super-bass headphones). Because my headphones came in the mail before this did, I had the opportunity to use the headphones without it for a few days. I would estimate that the dac+amp provided maybe an extra 10% improvement in sound quality over my computer motherboard. Its nice, but not nearly as significant as the headphone difference. (I did try these headphones with my iphone. They sounded better than earbuds, etc. but they do really need something more powerful to drive them to their full ability)

Thanks again everyone for your help.