Rebel XT/350 still dominating the reviews

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Saw another magazine review of it and the D70
and the Rebel is still winning the image game
at least. Most reviews note that the Nikon
is more ergonomically "friendly" but image quality
seems to win out when it comes time to tally up
the scores. I've held the Rebel a few times and shot
with it, but I just can't stand the plastic. However,
outfitted the same way, it costs $800 less in Canada
than the 20D so the choice between "plastic or metal"
is a tough one, especially when a Rebel outfitted with
a better Canon lens will slaughter the 20D in terms of
image quality.
-Rich
 
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"RichA" <none@none.com> wrote in message
news:99pgd1ho9um79kpvrs4bhha4ancac29b2r@4ax.com...
> Saw another magazine review of it and the D70
> and the Rebel is still winning the image game
> at least. Most reviews note that the Nikon
> is more ergonomically "friendly" but image quality
> seems to win out when it comes time to tally up
> the scores. I've held the Rebel a few times and shot
> with it, but I just can't stand the plastic. However,
> outfitted the same way, it costs $800 less in Canada
> than the 20D so the choice between "plastic or metal"
> is a tough one, especially when a Rebel outfitted with
> a better Canon lens will slaughter the 20D in terms of
> image quality.
> -Rich

Given the same lens, just how is it that the 350D will "slaughter" the 20D?

--
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http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
 
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That is a tough one. The 20D is superior IMO. In the states in not THAT much
more and I think it's worth every dime

On 7/15/05 9:41 PM, in article 99pgd1ho9um79kpvrs4bhha4ancac29b2r@4ax.com,
"RichA" <none@none.com> wrote:

> Saw another magazine review of it and the D70
> and the Rebel is still winning the image game
> at least. Most reviews note that the Nikon
> is more ergonomically "friendly" but image quality
> seems to win out when it comes time to tally up
> the scores. I've held the Rebel a few times and shot
> with it, but I just can't stand the plastic. However,
> outfitted the same way, it costs $800 less in Canada
> than the 20D so the choice between "plastic or metal"
> is a tough one, especially when a Rebel outfitted with
> a better Canon lens will slaughter the 20D in terms of
> image quality.
> -Rich
 
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On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 22:01:17 -0700, "Skip M" <shadowcatcher@cox.net>
wrote:

>"RichA" <none@none.com> wrote in message
>news:99pgd1ho9um79kpvrs4bhha4ancac29b2r@4ax.com...
>> Saw another magazine review of it and the D70
>> and the Rebel is still winning the image game
>> at least. Most reviews note that the Nikon
>> is more ergonomically "friendly" but image quality
>> seems to win out when it comes time to tally up
>> the scores. I've held the Rebel a few times and shot
>> with it, but I just can't stand the plastic. However,
>> outfitted the same way, it costs $800 less in Canada
>> than the 20D so the choice between "plastic or metal"
>> is a tough one, especially when a Rebel outfitted with
>> a better Canon lens will slaughter the 20D in terms of
>> image quality.
>> -Rich
>
>Given the same lens, just how is it that the 350D will "slaughter" the 20D?

It won't. Like I said, "outfitted with a better Canon lens" (than the
odious kit zoom) and the XT will beat the 20D. The XT and 20D are
both being offered with the cheap kit lens in many stores as a way
to keep prices in line. Another way to look at it is, the sensor,
image processors in the two cameras differ slightly, whereas with the
lenses the differences can be huge. So, if you contemplate spending
$1500, you'd be better off getting the Rebel XT and a good lens than
the 20D and a mediocre one for the same price. Unless you want to get
the 20D and suffer until you can buy a decent lens for it.
-Rich
 
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Well considering the 350 is almost a year and a half newer than the D70,
one would hope it would be better
or Canon would have been wasting their time

"RichA" <none@none.com> wrote in message
news:99pgd1ho9um79kpvrs4bhha4ancac29b2r@4ax.com...
> Saw another magazine review of it and the D70
> and the Rebel is still winning the image game
> at least. Most reviews note that the Nikon
> is more ergonomically "friendly" but image quality
> seems to win out when it comes time to tally up
> the scores. I've held the Rebel a few times and shot
> with it, but I just can't stand the plastic. However,
> outfitted the same way, it costs $800 less in Canada
> than the 20D so the choice between "plastic or metal"
> is a tough one, especially when a Rebel outfitted with
> a better Canon lens will slaughter the 20D in terms of
> image quality.
> -Rich
 
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"RichA" <none@none.com> wrote in message
news:eek:lbhd1dgcoof87gfmv7vd4r1vnc8likqk8@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 22:01:17 -0700, "Skip M" <shadowcatcher@cox.net>
> wrote:
>
>>"RichA" <none@none.com> wrote in message
>>news:99pgd1ho9um79kpvrs4bhha4ancac29b2r@4ax.com...
>>> Saw another magazine review of it and the D70
>>> and the Rebel is still winning the image game
>>> at least. Most reviews note that the Nikon
>>> is more ergonomically "friendly" but image quality
>>> seems to win out when it comes time to tally up
>>> the scores. I've held the Rebel a few times and shot
>>> with it, but I just can't stand the plastic. However,
>>> outfitted the same way, it costs $800 less in Canada
>>> than the 20D so the choice between "plastic or metal"
>>> is a tough one, especially when a Rebel outfitted with
>>> a better Canon lens will slaughter the 20D in terms of
>>> image quality.
>>> -Rich
>>
>>Given the same lens, just how is it that the 350D will "slaughter" the
>>20D?
>
> It won't. Like I said, "outfitted with a better Canon lens" (than the
> odious kit zoom) and the XT will beat the 20D. The XT and 20D are
> both being offered with the cheap kit lens in many stores as a way
> to keep prices in line. Another way to look at it is, the sensor,
> image processors in the two cameras differ slightly, whereas with the
> lenses the differences can be huge. So, if you contemplate spending
> $1500, you'd be better off getting the Rebel XT and a good lens than
> the 20D and a mediocre one for the same price. Unless you want to get
> the 20D and suffer until you can buy a decent lens for it.
> -Rich

You mean that if you outfit the XT with, say, a 17-85 EF-S IS and the 20D
with a 18-55 EF-S, the XT will produce better images than the 20D? That's a
rare statement of the obvious. Now, if you leave that 17-85 on the XT and
put a 24-70 L on the 20D, what do you think the result will be? Or put the
same lens on both cameras, and I'm betting the images will be pretty
indistinguishable. Given the same photographer behind the viewfinder, that
is...

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
 
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I'm the proud owner of a Rebel XT, but having looked closer at comparisons
with the 20D, I'm wondering if I've made a mistake?

Buried amongst the specs I've noted that the shutter mechanism on the rebel
is only rated at 50,000 shots, compared to 100,000 for the 20D.

With the ability to shoot bursts of shots (several per second) I'm starting
to think that 50,000 (or even 100,000) shots suddenly doesn't sound like all
that many!

Anybody else care to comment? Does anyone know if it's economic to have a
shutter mechanism replaced in either camera?

Additionally, I was looking at splashing out on a mother of a lens like the
70-200 F2.4L - but I've been advised that this lens is simply too heavy for
the plastic lens mount of the 350D (even to the point where it's just
hanging from the camera when it's around my neck) - again, word has it that
the 20D is the minimum in this regard (and even then it's apparantly more
balanced with the battery grip).

Any comments appreciated.

Cheers,

CC

"RichA" <none@none.com> wrote in message
news:99pgd1ho9um79kpvrs4bhha4ancac29b2r@4ax.com...
> Saw another magazine review of it and the D70
> and the Rebel is still winning the image game
> at least. Most reviews note that the Nikon
> is more ergonomically "friendly" but image quality
> seems to win out when it comes time to tally up
> the scores. I've held the Rebel a few times and shot
> with it, but I just can't stand the plastic. However,
> outfitted the same way, it costs $800 less in Canada
> than the 20D so the choice between "plastic or metal"
> is a tough one, especially when a Rebel outfitted with
> a better Canon lens will slaughter the 20D in terms of
> image quality.
> -Rich
 
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"Cockpit Colin" <spam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:lI%Be.821$PL5.131207@news.xtra.co.nz...
> I'm the proud owner of a Rebel XT, but having looked closer at comparisons
> with the 20D, I'm wondering if I've made a mistake?
>
> Buried amongst the specs I've noted that the shutter mechanism on the
rebel
> is only rated at 50,000 shots, compared to 100,000 for the 20D.
>
> With the ability to shoot bursts of shots (several per second) I'm
starting
> to think that 50,000 (or even 100,000) shots suddenly doesn't sound like
all
> that many!
>
> Anybody else care to comment? Does anyone know if it's economic to have a
> shutter mechanism replaced in either camera?
>
> Additionally, I was looking at splashing out on a mother of a lens like
the
> 70-200 F2.4L - but I've been advised that this lens is simply too heavy
for
> the plastic lens mount of the 350D

It's not a plastic lens mount. The body may be plastic but that has nothing
to do with the mount. Do you really have a Rebel XT? Your writing is
eerily similar to the_wise_elder.

Greg
 
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Cockpit Colin wrote:
> I'm the proud owner of a Rebel XT, but having looked closer at
> comparisons with the 20D, I'm wondering if I've made a mistake?
>
> Buried amongst the specs I've noted that the shutter mechanism on
> the
> rebel is only rated at 50,000 shots, compared to 100,000 for the
> 20D.
>
> With the ability to shoot bursts of shots (several per second) I'm
> starting to think that 50,000 (or even 100,000) shots suddenly
> doesn't sound like all that many!
>
> Anybody else care to comment? Does anyone know if it's economic to
> have a shutter mechanism replaced in either camera?
>
> Additionally, I was looking at splashing out on a mother of a lens
> like the 70-200 F2.4L - but I've been advised that this lens is
> simply too heavy for the plastic lens mount of the 350D (even to the
> point where it's just hanging from the camera when it's around my
> neck) - again, word has it that the 20D is the minimum in this
> regard
> (and even then it's apparantly more balanced with the battery grip).
>

If it's the 70-200 2.8L you're thinking of, I wouldn't worry about the
350D/XT mount collapsing. The lens is so heavy and expensive you'll
probably do as I do: maintain a strong grip on the lens itself, just
to keep it in control, and safe. Whatever happens to be hung on the
end of it is pretty much along for the ride.

As to making a mistake: could be. I have one of each, and if I had it
to do again, I'd save up for another couple months and get the 20D. Of
course I didn't know that until I'd lived with the RebXT for a while.
It's good and will do almost all of what 'most anyone would need, but
the 20D makdes it all much easier.

--
Frank ess
 
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"Cockpit Colin" <spam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:lI%Be.821$PL5.131207@news.xtra.co.nz...
> I'm the proud owner of a Rebel XT, but having looked closer at comparisons
> with the 20D, I'm wondering if I've made a mistake?
>
> Buried amongst the specs I've noted that the shutter mechanism on the
> rebel is only rated at 50,000 shots, compared to 100,000 for the 20D.
>
> With the ability to shoot bursts of shots (several per second) I'm
> starting to think that 50,000 (or even 100,000) shots suddenly doesn't
> sound like all that many!
>
> Anybody else care to comment? Does anyone know if it's economic to have a
> shutter mechanism replaced in either camera?
>
> Additionally, I was looking at splashing out on a mother of a lens like
> the 70-200 F2.4L - but I've been advised that this lens is simply too
> heavy for the plastic lens mount of the 350D (even to the point where it's
> just hanging from the camera when it's around my neck) - again, word has
> it that the 20D is the minimum in this regard (and even then it's
> apparantly more balanced with the battery grip).
>
> Any comments appreciated.
>
> Cheers,
>
> CC

1st, it's a 70-200 f2.8L not 2.4.
2nd, the camera has a metal lens mount, not plastic.
3rd, the lens should be supported by your right hand, not left to hang on
the front of the camera unsupported. Or, better yet, mounted on a tripod
using the supplied mounting ring.

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
 
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> It's not a plastic lens mount. The body may be plastic but that has
> nothing
> to do with the mount. Do you really have a Rebel XT? Your writing is
> eerily similar to the_wise_elder.

Eeeech - heaven forbid! I'm new to the group - and since I subscribed I've
only black-listed one "zero" - you guessed it, our "friend" the_wise_elder!

So you're saying that you're not aware of any limitations on lens weight for
a Rebel XT body?

Cheers,

CC
 
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> If it's the 70-200 2.8L you're thinking of, I wouldn't worry about the
> 350D/XT mount collapsing. The lens is so heavy and expensive you'll
> probably do as I do: maintain a strong grip on the lens itself, just to
> keep it in control, and safe. Whatever happens to be hung on the end of it
> is pretty much along for the ride.

This was pretty much my argument as well - however it was suggested to me
that even the 3 pounds of that lens could be enough to damage the camera
mount if the camera is around my neck (on the strap) and the lens is
unsupported.

At the end of the day though I did have 2nd thoughts about that lens - all
the reviews say it's a fantastic lens, but I'm wondering how often I'd
actually use it at F2.8 (ie very little DOF) - I'm also taking a look at the
F4 version, and even the 28-300 IS DO lens.

Sigh, so many choices :(
 
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"Cockpit Colin" <spam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:So4Ce.864$PL5.134871@news.xtra.co.nz...
>> If it's the 70-200 2.8L you're thinking of, I wouldn't worry about the
>> 350D/XT mount collapsing. The lens is so heavy and expensive you'll
>> probably do as I do: maintain a strong grip on the lens itself, just to
>> keep it in control, and safe. Whatever happens to be hung on the end of
>> it is pretty much along for the ride.
>
> This was pretty much my argument as well - however it was suggested to me
> that even the 3 pounds of that lens could be enough to damage the camera
> mount if the camera is around my neck (on the strap) and the lens is
> unsupported.
>
> At the end of the day though I did have 2nd thoughts about that lens - all
> the reviews say it's a fantastic lens, but I'm wondering how often I'd
> actually use it at F2.8 (ie very little DOF) - I'm also taking a look at
> the F4 version, and even the 28-300 IS DO lens.
>
> Sigh, so many choices :(
>

If you can afford it, get it. You don't have to shoot at f2.8, but the f4
version will never go to f2.8. I felt the same way as you for a long time,
until I got a 24-70 f2.8 to augment my 28-135 IS. Now it's indispensable.
There are times that you need the speed to offset movement, and if it ain't
there, it ain't there...

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
 
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> 1st, it's a 70-200 f2.8L not 2.4.

I stand corrected.

> 2nd, the camera has a metal lens mount, not plastic.

I didn't appreciate that until now, however I'm still wondering if a plastic
body would still handle the torsion of a heavy lens without eventually
damaging something.

> 3rd, the lens should be supported by your right hand, not left to hang on
> the front of the camera unsupported. Or, better yet, mounted on a tripod
> using the supplied mounting ring.

Left hand. It would be my suggestion to support it whilst "poised for a
shot", but would still be times it would be left hanging.

Consensus of opinion seems to be that it wouldn't be too much of an issue
for the 350D.
 
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In article <uu4Ce.866$PL5.134964@news.xtra.co.nz>, spam@nospam.com
says...
> > 1st, it's a 70-200 f2.8L not 2.4.
>
> I stand corrected.
>
> > 2nd, the camera has a metal lens mount, not plastic.
>
> I didn't appreciate that until now, however I'm still wondering if a plastic
> body would still handle the torsion of a heavy lens without eventually
> damaging something.
>

The plastic shell is hanging off of an internal metal frame, and plays
no part in supporting the lens weight. If there was an issue with
certain lenses, Canon would be putting something in the user manual to
tell you not to use them - they don't want claims from angry users for
damaged cameras/lenses!

If you're worried about the plastic body - don't be :) When Canon were
designing the camera, they found that the plastic shell gave better
protection than a metal one if the camera was dropped - it's better at
absorbing shock. Of course, it won't be as effective against some other
kinds of damage but a plastic body is not all bad.

> > 3rd, the lens should be supported by your right hand, not left to hang on
> > the front of the camera unsupported. Or, better yet, mounted on a tripod
> > using the supplied mounting ring.
>
> Left hand. It would be my suggestion to support it whilst "poised for a
> shot", but would still be times it would be left hanging.
>
> Consensus of opinion seems to be that it wouldn't be too much of an issue
> for the 350D.
>
>

Any current Canon camera with an EOS mount is rated to use any current
EOS lens. I'm sure the same is true for Nikon, Pentax etc.
 
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"Cockpit Colin" <spam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:uu4Ce.866$PL5.134964@news.xtra.co.nz...
>> 1st, it's a 70-200 f2.8L not 2.4.
>
> I stand corrected.
>
>> 2nd, the camera has a metal lens mount, not plastic.
>
> I didn't appreciate that until now, however I'm still wondering if a
> plastic body would still handle the torsion of a heavy lens without
> eventually damaging something.
>
>> 3rd, the lens should be supported by your right hand, not left to hang on
>> the front of the camera unsupported. Or, better yet, mounted on a tripod
>> using the supplied mounting ring.
>
> Left hand. It would be my suggestion to support it whilst "poised for a
> shot", but would still be times it would be left hanging.

Sorry, at that hour of the night, after doing too much day job work on the
computer, my brain goes mirror image. Or reverts to the days when I shot
with Exactas, which had the shutter release on the left side... ;-)
One can, of course, loop the shoulder strap around the lens, if this is a
concern. But the weight hanging fairly straight down won't have the effect
that it would pulling at a right angle to the mount.
>
> Consensus of opinion seems to be that it wouldn't be too much of an issue
> for the 350D.

It shouldn't be, after all, there are a few less affluent pros who might be
tempted to get one of these for a back up to the 20D that they bought
because they can't afford a 1D mkII...
--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
 

Vinnie

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You mean that if you outfit the XT with, say, a 17-85 EF-S IS and the 20D
with a 18-55 EF-S, the XT will produce better images than the 20D? That's a
rare statement of the obvious. Now, if you leave that 17-85 on the XT and
put a 24-70 L on the 20D, what do you think the result will be? Or put the
same lens on both cameras, and I'm betting the images will be pretty
indistinguishable. Given the same photographer behind the viewfinder, that
is...
--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com


well guys i see very little difference between the two cameras you just pay
more money for a metal body and 2 or 3 extra featuresother wise they are the
same don camera ok. see below:

D20 DIFFERNCE TO THE XT:

1. SENSOR SIZE .2 x .2 MORE
2. ISO UP TO 3200
3. AUTO FOCUS 2 POINTS MORE
4. WHITE BLANCE KELVIN
5. MAX SHUTTER 1/2000 SEC MORE
6. CON DRIVE 2.2FPS, 9 JEPG IMAGES MORE
and i guess thats it. like i said all you pay for is the metal body. if both
cameras has the same lens, the same settings, the same photographer and shot
the same secne the photos will be the same ok.

Vinnie.....
 

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You mean that if you outfit the XT with, say, a 17-85 EF-S IS and the 20D
with a 18-55 EF-S, the XT will produce better images than the 20D? That's a
rare statement of the obvious. Now, if you leave that 17-85 on the XT and
put a 24-70 L on the 20D, what do you think the result will be? Or put the
same lens on both cameras, and I'm betting the images will be pretty
indistinguishable. Given the same photographer behind the viewfinder, that
is...

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com



I snipped this from dpreview.com

It's interesting that not only does the EOS 350D not use the same sensor as
is used in the EOS 20D but that Canon deliberately designed the pixel count
of the 350D to be less than its bigger brother. Despite this there's really
no visible difference between the performance of the two in this test. You
could easily perform a blind test and not know which crop is from which
camera. Remember that both also use DIGIC II hence identical tonal and color
response
 
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On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 01:31:36 -0400, "Vinnie" <Vinnie@nospam.net>
wrote:

>You mean that if you outfit the XT with, say, a 17-85 EF-S IS and the 20D
>with a 18-55 EF-S, the XT will produce better images than the 20D? That's a
>rare statement of the obvious. Now, if you leave that 17-85 on the XT and
>put a 24-70 L on the 20D, what do you think the result will be? Or put the
>same lens on both cameras, and I'm betting the images will be pretty
>indistinguishable. Given the same photographer behind the viewfinder, that
>is...
 
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On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 01:31:36 -0400, "Vinnie" <Vinnie@nospam.net>
wrote:

>You mean that if you outfit the XT with, say, a 17-85 EF-S IS and the 20D
>with a 18-55 EF-S, the XT will produce better images than the 20D? That's a
>rare statement of the obvious. Now, if you leave that 17-85 on the XT and
>put a 24-70 L on the 20D, what do you think the result will be? Or put the
>same lens on both cameras, and I'm betting the images will be pretty
>indistinguishable. Given the same photographer behind the viewfinder, that
>is...
>--
>Skip Middleton
>http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
>
>
>well guys i see very little difference between the two cameras you just pay
>more money for a metal body and 2 or 3 extra featuresother wise they are the
>same don camera ok. see below:
>
>D20 DIFFERNCE TO THE XT:
>
>1. SENSOR SIZE .2 x .2 MORE
>2. ISO UP TO 3200
>3. AUTO FOCUS 2 POINTS MORE
>4. WHITE BLANCE KELVIN
>5. MAX SHUTTER 1/2000 SEC MORE
>6. CON DRIVE 2.2FPS, 9 JEPG IMAGES MORE
>and i guess thats it. like i said all you pay for is the metal body. if both
>cameras has the same lens, the same settings, the same photographer and shot
>the same secne the photos will be the same ok.
>
>Vinnie.....
>

What about things you can't see, such as switch quality, etc?
-Rich
 
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