Sager Gaming Laptop Advice / Help

Kardius

Honorable
Apr 7, 2012
4
0
10,510
0
Good Morning,

I am in the market to buy a gaming laptop to replace my desktop. With the release of the 1060+ graphics cards, I've decided now might be the time to replace my desktop. I know I'd probably get more kick from a desktop graphics card compared to a laptop card, but I have my reasons for getting a laptop.

My gaming goals: Currently I am back into WoW. I know that's not to demanding. Probably most demanding thing I will be doing at the time is wanting to run Fallout 4/Skyrim at Max settings. For the future though, I am thinking about getting into using VR. Due to the fact that I am thinking about using VR, I've been looking at "VR Ready Laptops".

Other Goals: Planning to connect the laptop to my current monitors. As it is a laptop, I will be moving it around my house and potentially taking it to work with me.

I've been looking at laptops and I think I am ready to settle on a Sager laptop. I am looking at using Xotic PC as my website to purchase site. Currently I have been looking at two different computers in particular: Sager NP8172-S (17") and the Sager NP8153-S (15").

Sager NP8172-S Pros:
* Cheaper
* Bigger Screen

Sager NP8153-S Pros:
* Better Graphics Card
* (Potential) Better CPU

Other than those Pros, there isn't much different between the two laptops. Breaking it down this is where I am at with the Laptop
Display: 16:9 IPS LED-Backlit Display with Matte Finish w/ G-SYNC Technology
Processor: 6th Generation Intel® Skylake™ i7-6700HQ (2.6GHz - 3.5GHz, 6MB Intel® Smart Cache) *or I can upgrade the 15" to 6th Generation Intel® Skylake™ i7-6820HK Overclockable (2.7GHz - 3.6GHz, 8MB Intel® Smart Cache)*
Graphics Card: NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1060 (6GB) GDDR5 (Pascal) DX12 (17") / NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1070 (8GB) GDDR5 (Pascal) DX12 (15")
RAM: 16gb (Not sure I'll ever use 16gb of RAM, but doesn't hurt)
M.2 SSD: 256GB SanDisk X400 M.2 SSD
2.5" Storage: 1TB 7200RPM [SATA II - 3GB/s] - Default - Bay 1 (17") or None (15")
Thermal Cooling: Looks like they will put in some IC Diamond Thermal Compound - CPU + GPU.
Cooling & Overclocking: Cooper Cooling? Is it worth it to have Copper Cooling installed on this?
Operating System: No Operating System (I have a disc laying around I can use)

I've done some research into the graphics cards and know the 1060 should be enough for what I am doing now and a bit into the future. I am thinking about the 1070 as more of a future proof in the hopes to get the most of my money for buying a laptop.

So my questions are really:
1) Displays have never been my forte. Is the Matte Finish w/ G-SYNC worth the investment?
2) Should I be concerned about the processor difference? Will I see a huge difference for the investment?
3) Copper Cooling for a laptop. Is this a good investment? I want the laptop to run cool and had on planning on investing in a fan based "cooling pad"
4) Sager Laptops and Hard Drive expansion. I am kind of lost here with the amount of hard drives I can fit into the laptops. As I mentioned with the 15", I planned on forgoing the 2.5" storage drive. I have an SSD I planned on using with the laptop. Is there any information about expanding hard drives for these two systems?

I want to make an educated purchase. I know I'd be happy with either. Thanks for any help provided!
 

JackNaylorPE

Distinguished
Sager is the retail arm of Clevo and you can customize just about any part therein. recently however, GPU options are scarce as buying a lower prced model and upgrading to a $200 more GPU puts the unit in a whole 'nother price and model category.

1. G-Sync actually is an incredible feature ... for 60 Hz and less .... actually it functions quite well up to about 75 Hz. At that point you'd generally want to switch to ULMB on a desktop screen

2. IPS Panels are simply not as fast as TN panels. There are IPS panels that are very fast, but they are very expensive, starting at about $700 for a 1440p desktop screen. I have yet to see such a panel incorporated into a 1080p desktop svreen and given the pricing, it seems very umlikely that such could affordably be incorporated into a laptop.

3. You won't see a significant return for the CPU upgrade.

4. Cooling pads are useless and can actually increase temps ... those that plug into a USB port can overload (read "blow") the lappie's USB ports. I have not seen a Clevo lappie that didn't have copper heat sinks.

5. We purchased two Clevo lappies some time back to examine this question .. one had an SSD + 7200 rpm HD / the 2nd had a 7200 rpm SSHD. They was used to be used my employees as field AutoCAD workstations, for folks to work from home and, of course, for personal (read gaming) use "after hours". The units were used by several people without being told which one was which. We did a similar comparison with same components on a desktop but also added a 7200 rpm HD. What we found was the following.

-Boot time on the SSD was 15.6 seconds versus 16.5 for the SSHD ... however, no one noticed the 0.9 second difference.
-No one noticed any difference in performance on either the laptops or desktop except for my 25 year old son who noticed when the desktop system booted from the HD.

6. If you search the forum here, you will find a few Xotic PC "Horror Story" threads. The 8.23 score at resellerratings.com is lower than I would be comfy with; we've been using LPCdigital (10.0 score) for the last 8 years or so.

http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Xotic_PC
http://www.resellerratings.com/store/LPC_Digital_Inc

7. Clevo / Sager distributors are prohibited from **advertising** prices below a certain figure for any model. However, that doesn't mean that you can't ask for a discount.... We've gotten from $50 to $150 off, the amount of the discount being proportional to total cost. Rad the FAQ
https://lpc-digital.com/faq/

8. Just spec'd this on out for a client who intends to use for AutoCAD / PhotpShop / Gaming and had a $2k budget

9. Look here to see how the GFX cards stand up to one another

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Graphics-Cards-Benchmark-List.844.0.html
1070 = 8th place (20-30% faster for $200)
1060 = 19th place


Clevo P670RS
https://lpc-digital.com/product/sager-np8173-clevo-p670rs/
17.3” Full HD (1920 x 1080) Clear LG IPS MATTE G-SYNC™ Technology
NVIDIA® GeForce™ GTX 1070 GPU with 8GB GDDR5
6th Generation Intel® Core™ i7-6700HQ
Standard Clevo Thermal Compound
Windows® 10 Pro 64-Bit Edition Preinstalled, (without Recovery Media) (Win 10 Home is $50 cheaper)
16GB Dual Channel DDR4 2400MHz (PC4 19200)Memory (2 x 8GB)
Samsung® 850 EVO™ M.2 250GB SSD - (Primary Drive C)
Intel® Dual Band Wireless-AC 3165 Wireless AC + Bluetooth 4.0
$115 Of In-Game Value Promotional Code for PARAGON
INSTANT $50.00 OFF!
Free Shipping

Was about $1825 before discounts.

We install the SSHD ($95) ourselves.
http://pcpartpicker.com/product/tR2kcf/seagate-internal-hard-drive-st2000dx001

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/5748/seagate-desktop-2tb-sshd-st2000dx001-review/index9.html

With the increasing market penetration of the SSD, a lot of users have now had the chance to upgrade their PCs. Now we all know while SSDs offer massive benefits in terms of performance, they have always lacked in one area - capacity.

A situation like this left most power users using an SSD for their operating system, while still running a secondary mechanical drive for storage and games. A typical setup such as this would allow the OS to load very quickly, while leaving you stunned at how long it took to load a game. With the introduction of the Desktop SSHD, Seagate has again switched up the game, offering a substantial performance boost to those of you in this situation

Now, if you are one that chooses to use a single drive for your operating system, and have held onto your standard desktop HDD for the benefit of capacity, the Desktop SSHD is calling your name. The 8GB of NAND cache in conjunction with Seagate's application optimized algorithms should offer a tremendous performance boost, and again the more you use, it the faster the drive will get, as it learns how you use your system
We find, by keeping the OS and programs on the SSD, we experience all the benefits of SSD speed during working hours. We keep all data files on the SSHD and they load at SSD like speeds as we generally are using the same project specific CAD, spreadsheet and word processing files day to day until those projects are finished and then move on to the next. After hours, same thing ... tendency is to play 1 or 2 games until completed and then move on.

So say playing Far Cry 3, all of your files will be stored on the SSD portion of the SSHD; finish that and start playing FC4 say, and after a couple of loads, the drive recognizes that FC3 is no longer frequently used so its files get moved off the SSD portion and FC4 's files replace them.

If you are the type of player that plays a new game each day or plays 7 or 8 different games a day, then the benefits of the SSHD are less apparent.

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/hdd-charts-2013/-17-PCMark-7-Gaming,2915.html

The SSHD scores 9.76 in Tomshardware testing ... next closest 2 Tb drive is the 7200.14 at 6.56 making it about 50% faster in gaming than the next closest 2 TB alternative. As for reliability ... before anyone starts w/ the irrelevant backblaze stuff, here's real data on consumer drives in a consumer environment

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/944-6/disques-durs.html

- Seagate 0,60% (contre 0,68%)
- HGST 0,81% (contre 1,16%)
- Western 0,90% (contre 1,09%)
- Toshiba 0,96% (contre 1,34%)

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/944-6/disques-durs.html

As you can see. all manufacturers are well below 1% return rate. For the specific model size, here's some individual model number data with some popular drives highlighted

- 1,69% Toshiba DT01ACA200
- 1,50% WD Black WD2003FZEX
- 1,41% WD Se WD2000F9YZ
- 1,06% WD Purple WD20PURX
- 0,97% Seagate Pipeline HD ST2000VM003
- 0,94% Seagate Desktop SSHD ST2000DX001
- 0,68% WD Green WD20EZRX
- 0,65% Seagate NAS ST2000VN000
- 0,63% Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 ST2000DM001
- 0,59% WD Red Pro WD2001FFSX

Note that the absence of a particular model is not a good thing ... just means that the model didn't sell enough units to qualify as "statistically reliable"








 

Dynomite54

Estimable
Jan 14, 2016
63
0
4,610
15
Go with better gpu so Sager NP8153-S. If you want to do vr More is better. And G-sync some people like and some dont. But I dont think the screens are above 60hz so it wont make a difference.
 

JackNaylorPE

Distinguished
Sager is the retail arm of Clevo and you can customize just about any part therein. recently however, GPU options are scarce as buying a lower prced model and upgrading to a $200 more GPU puts the unit in a whole 'nother price and model category.

1. G-Sync actually is an incredible feature ... for 60 Hz and less .... actually it functions quite well up to about 75 Hz. At that point you'd generally want to switch to ULMB on a desktop screen

2. IPS Panels are simply not as fast as TN panels. There are IPS panels that are very fast, but they are very expensive, starting at about $700 for a 1440p desktop screen. I have yet to see such a panel incorporated into a 1080p desktop svreen and given the pricing, it seems very umlikely that such could affordably be incorporated into a laptop.

3. You won't see a significant return for the CPU upgrade.

4. Cooling pads are useless and can actually increase temps ... those that plug into a USB port can overload (read "blow") the lappie's USB ports. I have not seen a Clevo lappie that didn't have copper heat sinks.

5. We purchased two Clevo lappies some time back to examine this question .. one had an SSD + 7200 rpm HD / the 2nd had a 7200 rpm SSHD. They was used to be used my employees as field AutoCAD workstations, for folks to work from home and, of course, for personal (read gaming) use "after hours". The units were used by several people without being told which one was which. We did a similar comparison with same components on a desktop but also added a 7200 rpm HD. What we found was the following.

-Boot time on the SSD was 15.6 seconds versus 16.5 for the SSHD ... however, no one noticed the 0.9 second difference.
-No one noticed any difference in performance on either the laptops or desktop except for my 25 year old son who noticed when the desktop system booted from the HD.

6. If you search the forum here, you will find a few Xotic PC "Horror Story" threads. The 8.23 score at resellerratings.com is lower than I would be comfy with; we've been using LPCdigital (10.0 score) for the last 8 years or so.

http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Xotic_PC
http://www.resellerratings.com/store/LPC_Digital_Inc

7. Clevo / Sager distributors are prohibited from **advertising** prices below a certain figure for any model. However, that doesn't mean that you can't ask for a discount.... We've gotten from $50 to $150 off, the amount of the discount being proportional to total cost. Rad the FAQ
https://lpc-digital.com/faq/

8. Just spec'd this on out for a client who intends to use for AutoCAD / PhotpShop / Gaming and had a $2k budget

9. Look here to see how the GFX cards stand up to one another

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Graphics-Cards-Benchmark-List.844.0.html
1070 = 8th place (20-30% faster for $200)
1060 = 19th place


Clevo P670RS
https://lpc-digital.com/product/sager-np8173-clevo-p670rs/
17.3” Full HD (1920 x 1080) Clear LG IPS MATTE G-SYNC™ Technology
NVIDIA® GeForce™ GTX 1070 GPU with 8GB GDDR5
6th Generation Intel® Core™ i7-6700HQ
Standard Clevo Thermal Compound
Windows® 10 Pro 64-Bit Edition Preinstalled, (without Recovery Media) (Win 10 Home is $50 cheaper)
16GB Dual Channel DDR4 2400MHz (PC4 19200)Memory (2 x 8GB)
Samsung® 850 EVO™ M.2 250GB SSD - (Primary Drive C)
Intel® Dual Band Wireless-AC 3165 Wireless AC + Bluetooth 4.0
$115 Of In-Game Value Promotional Code for PARAGON
INSTANT $50.00 OFF!
Free Shipping

Was about $1825 before discounts.

We install the SSHD ($95) ourselves.
http://pcpartpicker.com/product/tR2kcf/seagate-internal-hard-drive-st2000dx001

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/5748/seagate-desktop-2tb-sshd-st2000dx001-review/index9.html

With the increasing market penetration of the SSD, a lot of users have now had the chance to upgrade their PCs. Now we all know while SSDs offer massive benefits in terms of performance, they have always lacked in one area - capacity.

A situation like this left most power users using an SSD for their operating system, while still running a secondary mechanical drive for storage and games. A typical setup such as this would allow the OS to load very quickly, while leaving you stunned at how long it took to load a game. With the introduction of the Desktop SSHD, Seagate has again switched up the game, offering a substantial performance boost to those of you in this situation

Now, if you are one that chooses to use a single drive for your operating system, and have held onto your standard desktop HDD for the benefit of capacity, the Desktop SSHD is calling your name. The 8GB of NAND cache in conjunction with Seagate's application optimized algorithms should offer a tremendous performance boost, and again the more you use, it the faster the drive will get, as it learns how you use your system
We find, by keeping the OS and programs on the SSD, we experience all the benefits of SSD speed during working hours. We keep all data files on the SSHD and they load at SSD like speeds as we generally are using the same project specific CAD, spreadsheet and word processing files day to day until those projects are finished and then move on to the next. After hours, same thing ... tendency is to play 1 or 2 games until completed and then move on.

So say playing Far Cry 3, all of your files will be stored on the SSD portion of the SSHD; finish that and start playing FC4 say, and after a couple of loads, the drive recognizes that FC3 is no longer frequently used so its files get moved off the SSD portion and FC4 's files replace them.

If you are the type of player that plays a new game each day or plays 7 or 8 different games a day, then the benefits of the SSHD are less apparent.

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/hdd-charts-2013/-17-PCMark-7-Gaming,2915.html

The SSHD scores 9.76 in Tomshardware testing ... next closest 2 Tb drive is the 7200.14 at 6.56 making it about 50% faster in gaming than the next closest 2 TB alternative. As for reliability ... before anyone starts w/ the irrelevant backblaze stuff, here's real data on consumer drives in a consumer environment

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/944-6/disques-durs.html

- Seagate 0,60% (contre 0,68%)
- HGST 0,81% (contre 1,16%)
- Western 0,90% (contre 1,09%)
- Toshiba 0,96% (contre 1,34%)

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/944-6/disques-durs.html

As you can see. all manufacturers are well below 1% return rate. For the specific model size, here's some individual model number data with some popular drives highlighted

- 1,69% Toshiba DT01ACA200
- 1,50% WD Black WD2003FZEX
- 1,41% WD Se WD2000F9YZ
- 1,06% WD Purple WD20PURX
- 0,97% Seagate Pipeline HD ST2000VM003
- 0,94% Seagate Desktop SSHD ST2000DX001
- 0,68% WD Green WD20EZRX
- 0,65% Seagate NAS ST2000VN000
- 0,63% Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 ST2000DM001
- 0,59% WD Red Pro WD2001FFSX

Note that the absence of a particular model is not a good thing ... just means that the model didn't sell enough units to qualify as "statistically reliable"








 

velo3100

Splendid
Moderator
Personally I would go with the better screen as you are going to plug the laptop into your monitors.
As for g sync it will depend on if the game supports it. If it does then gameplay is smooth. Otherwise it can make it worse.
As for the cpu you will notice it in games that are cpu intense.
The last 2 points I don't know.
 
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