Senator to Microsoft: You Keeping Americans?

[saljr]

I agree w/tayb....Yes, Microsoft IS being discriminatory. They are discriminating against those who have higher salaries but don't pull their weight. And keeping there Top Talent employee's that make then $$$$$$$.

 

[nekatreven]

[citation][nom]Christopher1[/nom]Wrong. The fact is that companies ALSO have a moral imperative to support the countries that they are in by keeping as many jobs as they can in the country where they are based.That means that Microsoft should keep as many jobs as possible IN THE UNITED STATES, instead of outsourcing them around the world.[/citation]

It isn't even that. Moral rules != Law.

It's their requirement to be an equal opportunity employer that could get them, if anything. It is illegal to hire or fire based on race, ethnicity, or country or origin, sex, physical handicap, etc. It would be no different if they intentionally chose to lay off everyone at Microsoft who had to use a wheelchair or other physical disabilities (and then immediately hired more people who were not disabled). Also similar, is when companies temporarily offer significantly better severance/retirement/'voluntary termination' options for a short term to encourage old timers to leave. They have to offer the package to everyone...and hope the younger ones they want to keep don't bite.

If MS is found to be using this layoff to actively 'switch out' US workers for imigrants...then you and your mother's morals aside... they are now in a big legal predicament.

 

[anarchy4sale]

I think Microsoft knows whats best for Microsoft, if they fire the wrong people, they are going to hurt themselves in the end. The problem is, we need to stop bailing out company's so when they make the wrong choices, that the company FAIL's, and they don't receive a big check from the good ole USA

 

[Grims]

You guys don't get it, it's not that Americans work any less hard than any immigrant, but that immigrants will work just as hard for far less money. Is it the Americans fault that industry standards hand them a high salary, only to be under cut by someone not even from the country? I have many friends here with college degrees, who are very good at what they do with an amazing work ethic, but are forced to except work for the same pay as a guy with no education raking leaves...simply because of the high immigrant (mostly illegal) ratio in the state.

I'm sure a lot of you guys work in IT...how would you feel if you were told you were getting laid off and found out your replacement just flew in on a visa....with the same qualifications as you?

Microsoft is an American company, and should have American's priorities front and center.

 

[anarchy4sale]

Microsoft is an American company, and should have American's priorities front and center.

Part right, Microsoft is an American company, correct

and should have MICROSOFT'S PRIORITIES front and center.

To be honest there is so much more to the debate then simply keeping american jobs, and the visa jobs.

 

[TwoDigital]

Study after study has shown that American workers *WILL* work for the same wages that are being paid to H1 greencard holders if they don't have a choice (electing massive pay cuts if they don't have another job option.) I would think it would be in a company's best interest to TALK to these employees about the financial situation to try and reach an agreement before simply laying people off to decrease costs.

You'd be surprised at how much less one is willing to work for once they've been unemployeed for 6 months...

 

[zerapio]

Guys, there are two issues at had. One is job exports and the other is immigration. Job export happens because at another location there are qualified people that do the same job for less. The immigration process prevents a company from paying a foreign national more than the prevailing wage for the job. Having said that once can see that a foreign worker is an expensive worker because you have to pay them as good as an American and on top of that add the costs of bringing him here and enabling him to work (go through the paperwork). Why would a company go to such expenses to get someone? The reason is that there's a shortage of qualified personnel, particularly in the science fields.

If Mr. Senator wants to reduce foreign labor here he should attack the problem at the base and improve the education system and encourage more Americans to graduate in the science fields. Of course, this actually takes work to do. I guess it's good for him that his job's not eligible for outsourcing 😉

 

[Kary]

"Microsoft is an advocate of the H-1B visa program, a temporary visa program enabling American universities and companies to hire foreign workers -defined under the "specialty occupation" category- when there is not sufficient American workforce to meet current needs."

I have to agree with the senator..if there are to many workers in a field and some of the workers are in this country to fill in for a shortage of workers in that field (and this is the only reason they can be legally here) then why are we keeping the temp workers.

As an aside, I hope Obama can work to get rid of the inequality of education in this country (and I think only he can). It is very annoying losing out on work study programs in an American college to foreign students because they are a minority. We were literally told not to apply if we were white and male after some hemming and hawing over who could apply. Most of the students in the work study programs appeared to be from India or the middle east.... I suppose they could have been American, but the strong accents made me think not. And not that they might not have been better choices, but selection based on skin color isn't right in either direction.

 

[TeraMedia]

Ultimately, the global economy will lead to quality-of-life equalization across democratic industrialized nations. There will continue to be variations related to historic- and geographic-related wages and cost of living, just as there are now between podunk Arkansas and Manhattan. But the question of whether it is "better" for a worker to move from one area to another or one country to another to improve his lot should trend toward "no".

The problem with unmanaged immigration is that it causes areas of higher-wage concentration (e.g. the US) to be flooded with job-seekers from areas of lower-wage concentration. This flood quickly causes a supply glut of those types of workers, which in turn causes a price (wage) drop... ultimately, until the net benefit for an outside worker to immigrate drops to zero.

I don't think MSFTs plan is to flood the US labor force with less expensive foreign IT workers. But a side-effect of their activities can be described as just that, albeit with a limited intensity.

The purpose of the H1B is not to enable US companies to employ the cheapest possible IT labor from around the world for a given job. To the contrary, each company is required by law to offer the position - publicly - to any US legal resident with working status that is qualified, and the company MUST employ that person instead of the H1B candidate if available and willing. Hiring an H1B and laying off a qualified candidate accomplishes the opposite of this.

The US does not have open borders. The citizens of the US have the right to decide whether or not that remains the case.

Personally, I agree with the Senator.

 

[aracheb]

[citation][nom]Kary[/nom]"Microsoft is an advocate of the H-1B visa program, a temporary visa program enabling American universities and companies to hire foreign workers -defined under the "specialty occupation" category- when there is not sufficient American workforce to meet current needs."I have to agree with the senator..if there are to many workers in a field and some of the workers are in this country to fill in for a shortage of workers in that field (and this is the only reason they can be legally here) then why are we keeping the temp workers.As an aside, I hope Obama can work to get rid of the inequality of education in this country (and I think only he can). It is very annoying losing out on work study programs in an American college to foreign students because they are a minority. We were literally told not to apply if we were white and male after some hemming and hawing over who could apply. Most of the students in the work study programs appeared to be from India or the middle east.... I suppose they could have been American, but the strong accents made me think not. And not that they might not have been better choices, but selection based on skin color isn't right in either direction.[/citation]


well I don't know about this, but I'm not from this country and I only been here for no more than 5 years. And let make clear that I'm Hispanic (Minority) and here in new york there is no such thing as preference to the minority. I know a lot of people mostly from the IT field this is also my field (I work in the IT field in the Health Industry) and i have questioned those people about resolution to a few problem that i encounter in the short time working as a Technology Analyst and if they were able to answer 1 to 2 question from 50 i wouldn't wonder why they were getting paid almost 3 times what i was getting paid at that time. (Now a few of those people were laid off and i even got an offer from the same place where the guy of the 50 question used to work.)

 

[Grims]

[citation][nom]aracheb[/nom]well I don't know about this, but I'm not from this country and I only been here for no more than 5 years. And let make clear that I'm Hispanic (Minority) and here in new york there is no such thing as preference to the minority. I know a lot of people mostly from the IT field this is also my field (I work in the IT field in the Health Industry) and i have questioned those people about resolution to a few problem that i encounter in the short time working as a Technology Analyst and if they were able to answer 1 to 2 question from 50 i wouldn't wonder why they were getting paid almost 3 times what i was getting paid at that time. (Now a few of those people were laid off and i even got an offer from the same place where the guy of the 50 question used to work.)[/citation]

I really don't mean any offense in this, but to answer your question they probably get paid more for their ability to speak and write English, and communicate from within the company, and out much better.

 

[Kary]

here in new york there is no such thing as preference to the minority.

That could be the difference..Here in Mississippi I think some of our law makers get a little to ambitious about making up for past deeds (and most of these law makers that I'm complaining about are probably white males, too, just for the record).

 

[aracheb]

[citation][nom]Grims[/nom]I really don't mean any offense in this, but to answer your question they probably get paid more for their ability to speak and write English, and communicate from within the company, and out much better.[/citation]
that might be true, that is the reason why most of them don't have any job right now, because they got the laid off message very clear..

 

[aracheb]

[citation][nom]Kary[/nom]That could be the difference..Here in Mississippi I think some of our law makers get a little to ambitious about making up for past deeds (and most of these law makers that I'm complaining about are probably white males, too, just for the record).[/citation]
Kary i don't really believe that some one would want to make up for past deeds, a least not here in US. Well so far i haven't see or feel that spirit here in US

 

[Kary]

[citation][nom]aracheb[/nom]Kary i don't really believe that some one would want to make up for past deeds, a least not here in US. Well so far i haven't see or feel that spirit here in US[/citation]
It could be a stipulation left over from the civil war or a federal law..maybe it was just that particular position. I didn't really search that hard because I knew I wasn't the most qualified of the people who were trying to volunteer.