Slander from Google

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Today, I am instructing my lawyers to take action against Google as the
publisher of slander and defamation.

For too long now this firm has sought to ignore common courtesy and
continues to allow anonymous and defamatory posting to news groups from
their facilities. I urge anyone who has been slandered in a post from
Google to join with me in a law suite. I will cover your legal costs up
to the court date.

Douglas MacDonald

--
The Eulogy of Australia's last WW1 soldier...
Passed away at age 106.
"Love many, trust few, and always paddle your own canoe"
Thank you Digger, may you Rest in Peace.
 
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Ryadia <ryadia@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Today, I am instructing my lawyers to take action against Google as the
> publisher of slander and defamation.

You really want a Usenet provider to be legally considered the publisher
of its users' posts? Really? Because I can almost guarantee that if you
are successful, almost all providers will disallow all posting, that being
the only conceivable way to protect themselves legally. Luckily, although
UK law is a bit silly about this, I doubt you'll be successful under US
law, so we probably don't have much to worry about from you.

--
Jeremy | jeremy@exit109.com
 
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On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 06:47:14 +1000, Ryadia <ryadia@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Today, I am instructing my lawyers to take action against Google as the
>publisher of slander and defamation.
>
>For too long now this firm has sought to ignore common courtesy and
>continues to allow anonymous and defamatory posting to news groups from
>their facilities. I urge anyone who has been slandered in a post from
>Google to join with me in a law suite. I will cover your legal costs up
>to the court date.
>
>Douglas MacDonald

Scott,

I thought you might be interested in the above referenced legal
action, especially because it's being offered for free.

Looks like you and Douglas might have something in common.

-Astro
 
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On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 06:47:14 +1000, Ryadia <ryadia@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Today, I am instructing my lawyers to take action against Google as the
>publisher of slander and defamation.

Don't be an idiot, man.
 
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Ryadia wrote:

> Today, I am instructing my lawyers to take action against Google as the
> publisher of slander and defamation.
>
> For too long now this firm has sought to ignore common courtesy and
> continues to allow anonymous and defamatory posting to news groups from
> their facilities. I urge anyone who has been slandered in a post from
> Google to join with me in a law suite. I will cover your legal costs up
> to the court date.

To my knowledge no internet company has been found liable for content posted via
its services. OTOH, they usually will cooperate with the police or a court
order to provide details about the offending poster. Your lawyer will probably
need to get a court order in your home state/province and send that to Google
(or better, the offenders ISP if that is clear from the Google header). They
will provide what data they can.

Put it in this context, if a television reporter makes a libelous statement
about you on camera without anything to back it up, you can sue him and the
station; if the station shows tape of some person making a libelous statement
about you, then you can sue the person making the statement but not the station
or reporter.

Cheers,
Alan.
--
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"Ryadia" <ryadia@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:36ne4aF52uvklU1@individual.net...
> Today, I am instructing my lawyers to take action against Google as the
> publisher of slander and defamation.

You won't win.

>I urge anyone who has been slandered in a post from Google to join with me
>in a law suite.

For an orgy?
 
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"Ryadia" <ryadia@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:36ne4aF52uvklU1@individual.net...
> Today, I am instructing my lawyers to take action against Google as the
> publisher of slander and defamation.
>
> For too long now this firm has sought to ignore common courtesy and
> continues to allow anonymous and defamatory posting to news groups from
> their facilities. I urge anyone who has been slandered in a post from
> Google to join with me in a law suite. I will cover your legal costs up to
> the court date.
>
> Douglas MacDonald



------

What was said, about whom?......any links?
 

stevej

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I glad he's is not my neighbor, he probley suies everybody for anything.


"Fascinated Fed" <seat@thefrontrow.com> wrote in message
news:36pcibF52dr1mU1@individual.net...
>
> "Ryadia" <ryadia@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:36ne4aF52uvklU1@individual.net...
>> Today, I am instructing my lawyers to take action against Google as the
>> publisher of slander and defamation.
>>
>> For too long now this firm has sought to ignore common courtesy and
>> continues to allow anonymous and defamatory posting to news groups from
>> their facilities. I urge anyone who has been slandered in a post from
>> Google to join with me in a law suite. I will cover your legal costs up
>> to the court date.
>>
>> Douglas MacDonald
>
>
>
> ------
>
> What was said, about whom?......any links?
>
 

horace

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"SteveJ" <SJ@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:DIidnexZdp-iHprfRVn-gg@comcast.com...
>I glad he's is not my neighbor, he probley suies everybody for anything.



Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! - if he hears you saying that he might have you in court
before you can say, "Cheque Book".....and don't forget, he's got a Queen's
Counsel to act for him...bwaaaaaahhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaa!!
 
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On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 06:47:14 +1000, Ryadia <ryadia@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Today, I am instructing my lawyers to take action against Google as the
>publisher of slander and defamation.

Were you born naturally stupid, or do you have to actually work at it?

-Astro
 
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Jeremy Nixon wrote:
> Ryadia <ryadia@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Today, I am instructing my lawyers to take action against Google as the
>>publisher of slander and defamation.
>
>
> You really want a Usenet provider to be legally considered the publisher
> of its users' posts? Really? Because I can almost guarantee that if you
> are successful, almost all providers will disallow all posting, that being
> the only conceivable way to protect themselves legally. Luckily, although
> UK law is a bit silly about this, I doubt you'll be successful under US
> law, so we probably don't have much to worry about from you.
>
As I understand the law of defamation in Australia, the one publishing
the work is the one to sue. Google publish the posts made to their http
forums to news groups as ASCI text. This is no different from me letting
you write whatever you want in a magazine I publish.

It may be true that headers contain an IP address but when it is a proxy
server in Cario or Mexico, Google have the technology to forbid access
on the basis of the source not being identifable.

Total rubbish about ISPs refusing access. They too have the facilities
to block IP addresses on proxy servers refusing to give up the real IP
and most don't. It is these who will sufffer and have to finally be
responsible for whom they let use their service.


--
EOS my GOD,
Give me ISO for I have not yet seen the light.
Take away my grain, give me colour and you
shall have given me the edge!
 
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On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 09:24:37 -0500, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

>
>Put it in this context, if a television reporter makes a libelous statement
>about you on camera without anything to back it up, you can sue him and the
>station; if the station shows tape of some person making a libelous statement
>about you, then you can sue the person making the statement but not the station
>or reporter.
>

If by "on camera" you mean "live", then I would have thought (though IANAL)
that the situation would be the exact opposite:

Just as ISPs/telcos have no opportunity to "edit/review/control" what is
posted to usenet/spoken down a phone, then a TV station would have no
chance to intervene if a (previously reliable) reporter on live TV started
spouting slander [it would be slander because it's spoken; libel is for the
written word]. As such, I suspect that they could be held not responsible.

If, however, the TV station *elected* to show a pre-recorded tape, then
they _have_ made an "editorial decision" and would probably be included in
an action for slander.

Regards,
Graham Holden (g-holden AT dircon DOT co DOT uk)
--
There are 10 types of people in the world;
those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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Graham Holden wrote:

> On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 09:24:37 -0500, Alan Browne
> <alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>
>>Put it in this context, if a television reporter makes a libelous statement
>>about you on camera without anything to back it up, you can sue him and the
>>station; if the station shows tape of some person making a libelous statement
>>about you, then you can sue the person making the statement but not the station
>>or reporter.
>>
> If by "on camera" you mean "live", then I would have thought (though IANAL)
> that the situation would be the exact opposite:
>
> Just as ISPs/telcos have no opportunity to "edit/review/control" what is
> posted to usenet/spoken down a phone, then a TV station would have no
> chance to intervene if a (previously reliable) reporter on live TV started
> spouting slander [it would be slander because it's spoken; libel is for the
> written word]. As such, I suspect that they could be held not responsible.
>
> If, however, the TV station *elected* to show a pre-recorded tape, then
> they _have_ made an "editorial decision" and would probably be included in
> an action for slander.

I was just making the example as simple as possible. Airing tapes is, as you
say, an editorial decision and usually made with more than one source of
information. (There was a similar case here where a newspaper quoted something
said on air by a former Premier (provincial first minister). The Premier sued
the radio station and the newspaper. He lost against the newspaper as it was
just reporting what the radio station said (and attributed it to the radio
station)).

As to 'slander' v. 'libel', it could be argued that the broadcast of a recorded
utterance is the broadcast of a 'document' and thus libel. (If "live" then it
is slander.) But that's just my opinion ... I have no idea how civil courts
interpret it.

Cheers,
Alan.
--
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On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 17:50:08 -0000, Jeremy Nixon <jeremy@exit109.com>
wrote:

>Owamanga <nomail@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Goolge isn't publishing anything until it gets an editor. As soon as
>> they edit or censor one post, they become a publisher. It's for that
>> reason, they won't edit anything.
>
>This is an oft-repeated myth that is completely incorrect.

I disagree.

To quote a legal site (link at the bottom)

i) By exercising responsibility and attempting to regulate the nature
of the content, the online service provider may then become a
publisher and can be sued for libel. On the other hand, if they do
absolutely nothing, they could be sued for negligence for failing to
maintain security procedures, or for negligent misstatement.

>There is *no* legal basis in the US to say that editing or censoring makes
>you responsible for what remains. The court decision (the Prodigy case)
>that said so was specifically and deliberately invalidated by later
>legislation that says exactly the opposite.

Cite please.

Here's one assessment I found of that case:

<start of clip>

A second New York case, Stratton Oakmount v. Prodigy 23 Med. L.R. 1794
(S.C., Nassau County 1995), involving a libel action by Stratton
Oakmount, arose out of an allegedly defamatory posting on a finance
oriented bulletin board on the Prodigy Online Service. The originator
of the defamation was falsely identified and remains unknown.

On a motion for summary judgment brought by the plaintiff, the court
found that Prodigy was a "publisher" for the following reasons:

i) In the past, Prodigy had held itself out as being a "family
oriented" computer network and exercised editorial control over the
content of its editorial boards in order to make itself more appealing
to certain segments of the market.

ii) Prodigy had posted "content guidelines" to its users regarding
what Prodigy regarded as proper and appropriate for posting on
Prodigy's bulletin boards.

iii) Prodigy used a software screening program to screen postings for
offensive language.

iv) Prodigy retained "board leaders" to enforce the guidelines.

v) Prodigy employed technological means to delete postings that
violated the guidelines.

On October 24, 1995, Stratton Oakmount announced that it was dropping
its $200 million libel lawsuit against Prodigy Online Service. Prodigy
had assembled new evidence to show that, since 1992, it had used a
computerized keyword search solely to weed out messages containing
obscene language, but had not scanned messages for defamatory speech.
This evidence, coupled with an apology from Prodigy, was enough to
convince Stratton Oakmount to drop the case.

<end clip>

This suggests that the case was dropped when Prodigy proved they had
*not* edited the content, rather than the introduction of any new
legislation.

More (and the source of my clip) can be found at:
http://www.cyberlibel.com./liabilit.html

...where it summarizes the UK, US, Canada laws that relate.

As I requested above, I would be interested in seeing this new
legislation you mentioned, do you know what it was called?

--
Owamanga!
 
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Owamanga <nomail@hotmail.com> wrote:

> This suggests that the case was dropped when Prodigy proved they had
> *not* edited the content, rather than the introduction of any new
> legislation.

The disposition of the case is not relevant; what is relevant is the
later legislation invalidating the precedent.

> As I requested above, I would be interested in seeing this new
> legislation you mentioned, do you know what it was called?

47 USC Section 230, enacted in 1996.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode47/usc_sec_47_00000230----000-.html

The Congressional Conference Report on section 230 states:

"[O]ne of the specific purposes of [section 230] is to overrule
Stratton-Oakmont v. Prodigy and any other similar decisions which
have treated such providers and users as Publishers or speakers of
content that is not their own because they have restricted access
to objectionable material."

See also Zeran v. America Online.

--
Jeremy | jeremy@exit109.com
 
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On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 18:45:40 -0000, Jeremy Nixon <jeremy@exit109.com>
wrote:

>Owamanga <nomail@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> This suggests that the case was dropped when Prodigy proved they had
>> *not* edited the content, rather than the introduction of any new
>> legislation.
>
>The disposition of the case is not relevant; what is relevant is the
>later legislation invalidating the precedent.
>
>> As I requested above, I would be interested in seeing this new
>> legislation you mentioned, do you know what it was called?
>
>47 USC Section 230, enacted in 1996.
>
>http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode47/usc_sec_47_00000230----000-.html
>
>The Congressional Conference Report on section 230 states:
>
> "[O]ne of the specific purposes of [section 230] is to overrule
> Stratton-Oakmont v. Prodigy and any other similar decisions which
> have treated such providers and users as Publishers or speakers of
> content that is not their own because they have restricted access
> to objectionable material."
>
>See also Zeran v. America Online.

He key part here I believe is:

"No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be
treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by
another information content provider."

This doesn't save Google. Because the user involved holds a posting
account directly with them (Google), so there was no other information
content provider involved. They can't hide behind this.

So, OP, go ahead, sue them.

;-)

--
Owamanga!
 
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Owamanga <nomail@hotmail.com> wrote:

> He key part here I believe is:
>
> "No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be
> treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by
> another information content provider."
>
> This doesn't save Google. Because the user involved holds a posting
> account directly with them (Google), so there was no other information
> content provider involved. They can't hide behind this.

The "information content provider" is the person posting the message.

There is no "hiding". The end result of the Prodigy precedent was that
it became impossible for any service provider to exercise any form of
control whatsoever over anything, including illegal material posted
by their customers, access to pornography by minors, etc. This was
clearly not desirable, so Congress invalidated the decision. It's
pretty simple, really.

--
Jeremy | jeremy@exit109.com
 
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On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 19:04:02 -0000, Jeremy Nixon <jeremy@exit109.com>
wrote:

>Owamanga <nomail@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> He key part here I believe is:
>>
>> "No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be
>> treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by
>> another information content provider."
>>
>> This doesn't save Google. Because the user involved holds a posting
>> account directly with them (Google), so there was no other information
>> content provider involved. They can't hide behind this.
>
>The "information content provider" is the person posting the message.
>
>There is no "hiding". The end result of the Prodigy precedent was that
>it became impossible for any service provider to exercise any form of
>control whatsoever over anything, including illegal material posted
>by their customers, access to pornography by minors, etc. This was
>clearly not desirable, so Congress invalidated the decision. It's
>pretty simple, really.

I get it. The individual is an 'information content provider'

So, he as a 'user' of the interactive computer service is also
protected by claiming that another 'information content provider'
(anyone on the internet) provided the libel.

This must make it virtually impossible for a celebrity to bring about
a liability case relating to the internet... I can always find
*someone* else that said that nasty thing about Michael Jackson before
I did. Another 'information content provider' that I'm just repeating.

Cool.

--
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Owamanga <nomail@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I get it. The individual is an 'information content provider'
>
> So, he as a 'user' of the interactive computer service is also
> protected by claiming that another 'information content provider'
> (anyone on the internet) provided the libel.

Of course; if someone else posted it, he's not responsible.

> This must make it virtually impossible for a celebrity to bring about
> a liability case relating to the internet... I can always find
> *someone* else that said that nasty thing about Michael Jackson before
> I did. Another 'information content provider' that I'm just repeating.

It doesn't work that way, and I think you know it.

If you say "Michael Jackson diddles little boys" it doesn't matter if
someone else said it first. If you say "The National Enquirer reported
yesterday that Michael Jackson diddles little boys" that's a different
statement entirely.

--
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Henry Law wrote:
> On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 06:47:14 +1000, Ryadia <ryadia@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Today, I am instructing my lawyers to take action against Google as the
>>publisher of slander and defamation.
>
>
> Don't be an idiot, man.

Now if you'd said I was a fool, I could have seen the "money soon
parted" inference but to suggest I'm an idiot for defending a principal
that I have a legal right to sue for damages when someone slanders or
defames me or my wife, is to say you really couldn't give a hoot if some
one did it to you. Do you?

FWIW I've already spent the cost of a small car in trying to discover
the identity of the person responsible... Cadillac's are not all that
much more! Besides, I have the advise of a QC that my case has merit and
an offer to appear in court for no more cost than I recover from the
court as costs. It is going to happen.

Doug
 
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