Speaker Cable v. Lamp Cord

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

Hello All,
Is there any difference between (same gauge) speaker cable and lamp
cord? I cannot see any reason why there would be, especially if bannana
plugs are soldered on to both ends. If there are differences, why? I
can't for the life of me think why speaker cable would be better than
standard wire.

Mike

 

[Guest]

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On 29 Oct 2004 23:06:49 GMT, Michael Dombrowski
<legodudenein@hammycorp.com> wrote:

>Hello All,
>Is there any difference between (same gauge) speaker cable and lamp
>cord? I cannot see any reason why there would be, especially if bannana
>plugs are soldered on to both ends. If there are differences, why? I
>can't for the life of me think why speaker cable would be better than
>standard wire.
>
>Mike
Same stuff, just different price. Lamp cord is even marked for
polarity, usually by either a ribbed or hex-shaped insulation over one
of the conductors.

 

[chung]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

Michael Dombrowski wrote:
> Hello All,
> Is there any difference between (same gauge) speaker cable and lamp
> cord? I cannot see any reason why there would be, especially if bannana
> plugs are soldered on to both ends. If there are differences, why? I
> can't for the life of me think why speaker cable would be better than
> standard wire.
>
> Mike

If the gauges are the same, then there is no difference. No one has been
able to measure any differences that could be audible at the speaker
terminals. Assuming the same lengths, of course.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

On 29 Oct 2004 23:06:49 GMT, Michael Dombrowski
<legodudenein@hammycorp.com> wrote:

>Hello All,
>Is there any difference between (same gauge) speaker cable and lamp
>cord? I cannot see any reason why there would be, especially if bannana
>plugs are soldered on to both ends. If there are differences, why? I
>can't for the life of me think why speaker cable would be better than
>standard wire.

There has been for about five or six years now, a pool of around
$5,000 for anyone who can tell the difference between basic zipcord
(lamp cord, if you will) and the most exotic 'audiophile' speaker
cable (which can run up to more than $1,000 a *foot*!), under
level-matched double blind conditions. i.e. when they don't actually
*know* what's connected. In all that time, and despite many claims of
'obvious', 'night and day', and 'pretty amazing' differences, not one
single person has even *attempted* to claim this money.

That should indicate to you that 'wire is wire', certainly no one has
been able to demonstrate an ability to *hear* any differences,
whatever they may *claim* on this or any other newsgroup. I find it
fascinating that the more vocal claimants tend to appear in places
such as Audio Asylum (a well-named group if ever there was one!),
where discussion of blind testing is effectively banned by the
moderators/censors. A more cynical person might think that they don't
*want* to know the truth...................
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

On 2004-10-30 09:06:49 +1000, Michael Dombrowski
<legodudenein@hammycorp.com> said:

> Hello All,
> Is there any difference between (same gauge) speaker cable and lamp
> cord? I cannot see any reason why there would be, especially if bannana
> plugs are soldered on to both ends. If there are differences, why? I
> can't for the life of me think why speaker cable would be better than
> standard wire.
>
> Mike

If you can't see or hear the difference, then you're obviously not in
marketing =)
for the record, no, I'm not in marketing either and am quite happy with
a pair of $1500 speakers hanging off the ends of some 10 Amp mains
flex...

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

On 10/29/04 11:54 PM, in article clv3ai0ie@news2.newsguy.com, "John C."
<john_c@pcperspective.com> wrote:

> On 29 Oct 2004 23:06:49 GMT, Michael Dombrowski
> <legodudenein@hammycorp.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello All,
>> Is there any difference between (same gauge) speaker cable and lamp
>> cord? I cannot see any reason why there would be, especially if bannana
>> plugs are soldered on to both ends. If there are differences, why? I
>> can't for the life of me think why speaker cable would be better than
>> standard wire.
>>
>> Mike
> Same stuff, just different price. Lamp cord is even marked for
> polarity, usually by either a ribbed or hex-shaped insulation over one
> of the conductors.

There *are* some fancier speaker cables that are a good deal more
complex/engineered than lamp cord. Whether it is worth the extra money
charged for that or dedicated speaker cables depends upon system and taste.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

Michael Dombrowski wrote:
> Hello All,
> Is there any difference between (same gauge) speaker cable and lamp
> cord? I cannot see any reason why there would be, especially if bannana
> plugs are soldered on to both ends. If there are differences, why? I
> can't for the life of me think why speaker cable would be better than
> standard wire.
>
> Mike

Thanks all, that pretty much confirms what I thought. Cheapest cable of
the proper gauge and some decent connectors for my next system.

Thanks
Mike

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

On 30 Oct 2004 15:04:51 GMT, B&D <bromo@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>On 10/29/04 11:54 PM, in article clv3ai0ie@news2.newsguy.com, "John C."
><john_c@pcperspective.com> wrote:
>
>> On 29 Oct 2004 23:06:49 GMT, Michael Dombrowski
>> <legodudenein@hammycorp.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello All,
>>> Is there any difference between (same gauge) speaker cable and lamp
>>> cord? I cannot see any reason why there would be, especially if bannana
>>> plugs are soldered on to both ends. If there are differences, why? I
>>> can't for the life of me think why speaker cable would be better than
>>> standard wire.
>>>
>>> Mike
>> Same stuff, just different price. Lamp cord is even marked for
>> polarity, usually by either a ribbed or hex-shaped insulation over one
>> of the conductors.
>
>There *are* some fancier speaker cables that are a good deal more
>complex/engineered than lamp cord. Whether it is worth the extra money
>charged for that or dedicated speaker cables depends upon system and taste.

I beg to differ. Whether it is worth the extra money depends on
whether it *sounds* any better - or even different. As of this date,
not one single person has been able to demonstrate an ability to hear
*any* difference between basic 'zipcord' and the most 'advanced' and
'engineered' speaker cables.

Indeed, even the legendary John Dunlavy, who manufacures one of the
most technically perfect speaker cables available, states quite
unequivocally that in almost all systems, there will be no *audible*
difference between his cable and zipcord.

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

On 10/30/04 11:04 AM, in article cm0ah70egt@news3.newsguy.com, "Stewart
Pinkerton" <patent3@dircon.co.uk> wrote:

> There has been for about five or six years now, a pool of around
> $5,000 for anyone who can tell the difference between basic zipcord
> (lamp cord, if you will) and the most exotic 'audiophile' speaker
> cable (which can run up to more than $1,000 a *foot*!), under
> level-matched double blind conditions. i.e. when they don't actually
> *know* what's connected. In all that time, and despite many claims of
> 'obvious', 'night and day', and 'pretty amazing' differences, not one
> single person has even *attempted* to claim this money.
>
> That should indicate to you that 'wire is wire', certainly no one has
> been able to demonstrate an ability to *hear* any differences,
> whatever they may *claim* on this or any other newsgroup. I find it
> fascinating that the more vocal claimants tend to appear in places
> such as Audio Asylum (a well-named group if ever there was one!),
> where discussion of blind testing is effectively banned by the
> moderators/censors. A more cynical person might think that they don't
> *want* to know the truth...................

The existence of a pool does not *prove* anything except the existence of
the challenge. While you may be building a lot of confidence in the
supposition that it doesn't make a difference, and you are probably right,
drawing the conclusions you do is not scientifically tight. The problem is
you are trying to prove a negative - so you are stuck building confidence, I
know.

Still, if one were to offer a prize of any arbitrary amount - you cannot say
that lack of somone claiming the prize is any indication of anything as
broad as you are saying.

Again, there is no argument from me that the DBT will show no differences,
just be careful of your conclusions!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

On 10/30/04 3:50 PM, in article cm0rb30293v@news4.newsguy.com, "Stewart
Pinkerton" <patent3@dircon.co.uk> wrote:

>> There *are* some fancier speaker cables that are a good deal more
>> complex/engineered than lamp cord. Whether it is worth the extra money
>> charged for that or dedicated speaker cables depends upon system and taste.
>
> I beg to differ. Whether it is worth the extra money depends on
> whether it *sounds* any better - or even different. As of this date,
> not one single person has been able to demonstrate an ability to hear
> *any* difference between basic 'zipcord' and the most 'advanced' and
> 'engineered' speaker cables.

If you were to read my words "it depends upon the system and taste" - I
deliberately put those in the post so that it would be taking NO stand upon
sonic qualities of any of that stuff at all. Hence I used the the term
"system and taste" - who knows what one's system requirements are when
coupled with taste? I never claimed audible differences or lack thereof.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

> On 30 Oct 2004 15:04:51 GMT, B&D <bromo@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> >On 10/29/04 11:54 PM, in article clv3ai0ie@news2.newsguy.com, "John C."
> ><john_c@pcperspective.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 29 Oct 2004 23:06:49 GMT, Michael Dombrowski
> >> <legodudenein@hammycorp.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hello All,
> >>> Is there any difference between (same gauge) speaker cable and lamp
> >>> cord? I cannot see any reason why there would be, especially if bannana
> >>> plugs are soldered on to both ends. If there are differences, why? I
> >>> can't for the life of me think why speaker cable would be better than
> >>> standard wire.
> >>>
> >>> Mike
> >> Same stuff, just different price. Lamp cord is even marked for
> >> polarity, usually by either a ribbed or hex-shaped insulation over one
> >> of the conductors.
> >
> >There *are* some fancier speaker cables that are a good deal more
> >complex/engineered than lamp cord. Whether it is worth the extra money
> >charged for that or dedicated speaker cables depends upon system and taste.
>
> I beg to differ. Whether it is worth the extra money depends on
> whether it *sounds* any better - or even different. As of this date,
> not one single person has been able to demonstrate an ability to hear
> *any* difference between basic 'zipcord' and the most 'advanced' and
> 'engineered' speaker cables.
>
> Indeed, even the legendary John Dunlavy, who manufacures one of the
> most technically perfect speaker cables available, states quite
> unequivocally that in almost all systems, there will be no *audible*
> difference between his cable and zipcord.

Many years ago - decades in fact, respected UK pro-audio magazine Studio Sound
conducted some tests on various speaker cables.

The tests included 'scientific' tests like pulse waveforms, monitored at the
load. There were discernable differences, both audible and on the scope, but
mainly on account of *wire gauge*.

One of the *best* results was standard house wiring cable of 2.5mm^2 cross
sectional area ! God knows what that is in funny AWG.


Graham

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

On 30 Oct 2004 19:51:53 GMT, B&D <bromo@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>On 10/30/04 11:04 AM, in article cm0ah70egt@news3.newsguy.com, "Stewart
>Pinkerton" <patent3@dircon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> There has been for about five or six years now, a pool of around
>> $5,000 for anyone who can tell the difference between basic zipcord
>> (lamp cord, if you will) and the most exotic 'audiophile' speaker
>> cable (which can run up to more than $1,000 a *foot*!), under
>> level-matched double blind conditions. i.e. when they don't actually
>> *know* what's connected. In all that time, and despite many claims of
>> 'obvious', 'night and day', and 'pretty amazing' differences, not one
>> single person has even *attempted* to claim this money.
>>
>> That should indicate to you that 'wire is wire', certainly no one has
>> been able to demonstrate an ability to *hear* any differences,
>> whatever they may *claim* on this or any other newsgroup. I find it
>> fascinating that the more vocal claimants tend to appear in places
>> such as Audio Asylum (a well-named group if ever there was one!),
>> where discussion of blind testing is effectively banned by the
>> moderators/censors. A more cynical person might think that they don't
>> *want* to know the truth...................
>
>The existence of a pool does not *prove* anything except the existence of
>the challenge. While you may be building a lot of confidence in the
>supposition that it doesn't make a difference, and you are probably right,
>drawing the conclusions you do is not scientifically tight. The problem is
>you are trying to prove a negative - so you are stuck building confidence, I
>know.

Quite so. It is true that I cannot actually *prove* that some part of
the moon is *not* made of green cheese. OTOH, what odds would you
give?

>Still, if one were to offer a prize of any arbitrary amount - you cannot say
>that lack of somone claiming the prize is any indication of anything as
>broad as you are saying.
>
>Again, there is no argument from me that the DBT will show no differences,
>just be careful of your conclusions!

I draw no *definite* conclusion from that particular quarter, I simply
state the *fact* that no one has been able to demonstrate an ability
to *hear* any differences. OTOH, I can certainly point to the easily
*measurable* differences between 'zipcord' and an equivalent gauge of
'audiophile' wire, and conclude from those differences that no
*audible* difference is possible, given known limits of human hearing.

It therefore remains for those who make extraordinary claims for
Kimber 'Black Pearl' et al, to *prove* their claims. No such proof has
been forthcoming, or even an *attempt* at such proof, despite the
existence for several years of a substantial reward. Why would you
suppose that is?

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

On 10/30/04 6:47 PM, in article cm15mq01lq5@news4.newsguy.com, "Stewart
Pinkerton" <patent3@dircon.co.uk> wrote:

> It therefore remains for those who make extraordinary claims for
> Kimber 'Black Pearl' et al, to *prove* their claims. No such proof has
> been forthcoming, or even an *attempt* at such proof, despite the
> existence for several years of a substantial reward. Why would you
> suppose that is?

You and I both probably think the megabuck cable may not make much of an
audible difference, if any -- however, it could be possible that they simply
have good sales therefore have nothing to gain by such a challenge is they
have somehow found "the elixir" or something.

Who knows!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

On 29 Oct 2004 23:06:49 GMT, in article <cluie902n9i@news1.newsguy.com>, Michael
Dombrowski stated:
>
>Hello All,
>Is there any difference between (same gauge) speaker cable and lamp
>cord? I cannot see any reason why there would be, especially if bannana
>plugs are soldered on to both ends. If there are differences, why? I
>can't for the life of me think why speaker cable would be better than
>standard wire.
>
>Mike

It's not, but lamp cord is really ugly, and some speaker cable looks really
cool!

If it makes u feel better and it appeals to your sense of aesthetics, by all
means buy some expensive cable. There is not likely to be any audible
difference.

Note the review of AQ's DBS cable system in the current issue.... no audible
difference to the other cables.

For most people, the greatest gain is to be made by room treatment and or room
correction. But that's a pain in the butt, not a quick fix, so few go there, I
suspect.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 23:06:49 +0000, Michael Dombrowski wrote:

> Hello All,
> Is there any difference between (same gauge) speaker cable and lamp
> cord? I cannot see any reason why there would be, especially if bannana
> plugs are soldered on to both ends. If there are differences, why? I
> can't for the life of me think why speaker cable would be better than
> standard wire.
>
> Mike

__________________________________________________

Mike..

If one believes there is no difference in audio cable and that lamp
cord is sufficient...then, so be it. However, should one happen to go
into a room where the audio setup is rather foolishly setup with some
"audio cable"...and, the setup is "audio-wise" superior to anything
heard prior to that...well, we all know it is not the cable..is it?
Could it be the amplifier...but, we hear they all are the same...maybe
just the source and speakers and the ambiance of the room..maybe? But,
others with excellent sounding systems think not!!


One will have to make these decisions on his own...mind you,
there are newsgroups that are crowded with those that will
tell you what you hear and what you don't. Keep in mind that
it is redundantly stated enough..."there is no difference"..some
types will come to believe this. So be it! Looking for decision making
thoughts on these groups is not the answer.....one must cross
this "decision" bridge on his own...krewl world!! Looking for "like
minds" or espousing "agendas" on these groups won't cut it!

Much fodder will be created for this Newsgroup with this much
repeated question..nothing will be resolved!


Leonard...

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

-SNIP-
>
> One of the *best* results was standard house wiring cable of 2.5mm^2 cross
> sectional area ! God knows what that is in funny AWG.
>
>
> Graham

Somewhere between 14 and 12 gauge depending on strand count.
-Guy

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

On 30 Oct 2004 22:47:18 GMT, Pooh Bear
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
>
>> On 30 Oct 2004 15:04:51 GMT, B&D <bromo@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On 10/29/04 11:54 PM, in article clv3ai0ie@news2.newsguy.com, "John C."
>> ><john_c@pcperspective.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 29 Oct 2004 23:06:49 GMT, Michael Dombrowski
>> >> <legodudenein@hammycorp.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Hello All,
>> >>> Is there any difference between (same gauge) speaker cable and lamp
>> >>> cord? I cannot see any reason why there would be, especially if bannana
>> >>> plugs are soldered on to both ends. If there are differences, why? I
>> >>> can't for the life of me think why speaker cable would be better than
>> >>> standard wire.
>> >>>
>> >>> Mike
>> >> Same stuff, just different price. Lamp cord is even marked for
>> >> polarity, usually by either a ribbed or hex-shaped insulation over one
>> >> of the conductors.
>> >
>> >There *are* some fancier speaker cables that are a good deal more
>> >complex/engineered than lamp cord. Whether it is worth the extra money
>> >charged for that or dedicated speaker cables depends upon system and taste.
>>
>> I beg to differ. Whether it is worth the extra money depends on
>> whether it *sounds* any better - or even different. As of this date,
>> not one single person has been able to demonstrate an ability to hear
>> *any* difference between basic 'zipcord' and the most 'advanced' and
>> 'engineered' speaker cables.
>>
>> Indeed, even the legendary John Dunlavy, who manufacures one of the
>> most technically perfect speaker cables available, states quite
>> unequivocally that in almost all systems, there will be no *audible*
>> difference between his cable and zipcord.
>
>Many years ago - decades in fact, respected UK pro-audio magazine Studio Sound
>conducted some tests on various speaker cables.
>
>The tests included 'scientific' tests like pulse waveforms, monitored at the
>load. There were discernable differences, both audible and on the scope, but
>mainly on account of *wire gauge*.
>
>One of the *best* results was standard house wiring cable of 2.5mm^2 cross
>sectional area ! God knows what that is in funny AWG.

It's a fraction more than 10AWG, so pretty heavy-duty stuff. One would
reasonably expect that it would do very well.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

HOO BOY!!!
Talk about opening a can of worms
Some "audiophiles" swear there is a difference between say, a silver cable
and a plain old lamp cord
Others think that they, to be polite, are imagining things
My advice is to get speaker wire that has oxygen free copper, which will cut
down on corrosion, and get at least 16 guage. A hundred foot roll at wall
mart is under 20 bucks, you arent giving up much on price and are getting
good quality
Then go to radio shack and get some gold plated connectors to connect it to
your stuff, makes for a clean
hookup
"Michael Dombrowski" <legodudenein@hammycorp.com> wrote in message
news:cluie902n9i@news1.newsguy.com...
> Hello All,
> Is there any difference between (same gauge) speaker cable and lamp
> cord? I cannot see any reason why there would be, especially if bannana
> plugs are soldered on to both ends. If there are differences, why? I
> can't for the life of me think why speaker cable would be better than
> standard wire.
>
> Mike

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

Michael Dombrowski wrote:

> Is there any difference between (same gauge) speaker cable and lamp
> cord?

No. But the more important question is: What gauge wire should I use?

That depends largely on the length of your speaker cables. For a given
gauge, the total resistance of the wire is directly proportional to
its length. For lengths up to 10 or 15 feet, 14 gauge (AWG) should be
fine.

Art Harris

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

Well here is an excample
http/www.taralabs.com/catalog/catalog_product.asp?ID=F600953181024E3C97E9BEBB2C2F4B88

A pair of these cables cost here 15,000,00 $
Absurd or not?

Ben