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Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Hi normc,

I think the reason why Small Keys are not really marketed as "more keys =
more features" is simply because it mimics the standard computer keyboard...
Standard, meaning that everyone expects it to be as is... with all the keys
there.

They then offer 2 other options... Which IMHO you should find more
advantageous given your situation.

Large Keys alone is not really a favorite of mine since I need to tap on the
Numbers key to get to the numbers part.

But using Large Keys and Gestures... it is as close as it can get to the
standard keyboard layout where the numbers row appear similar to that of a
full-sized keyboard.

I think this is where More is not necessarily better.

I can touch-type pretty well on a standard keyboard. I'm 35 and I'm near
sighted. Touch-typing does not require a person to look at the keyboard...
but on a Pocket PC, you are working on a smooth, flat, input panel which
does not offer any tactile reference. Visual reference is all we have and
memorizing our hand position when typing may help...

Optimizing this with larger keys and by using gestures should increase
accuracy and you will notice that with this setup certain actions have been
replaced by alternative actions which are not that difficult to learn. You
should in a few minutes be able to adapt to a larger keyboard with Use
Gestures selected. You may have to exit the keyboard and reselect it if the
keyboard does not show up correctly.

Give it a try. I assure you, you will not lose any function really with the
Large Keys, and Use Gestures selected. You will find that certain keys such
as the space bar, the carriage return, the 4 directional arrows, the shift,
and back space buttons are actually not necessary.

Here is what I can recommend though...

Keep using Small Keys for the moment. But try to use it with a different
approach... Gestures is supported in all the keyboard layouts... the only
reason it has a check box is that when you select it, it will not show the
keys that are no longer needed.

So with Small Keys selected, you will notice that you can use Gestures
still... Try to tap on A and without lifting the stylus slide it upwards. To
simulate a Carriage Return, slide your stylus downwards on the keyboard. To
add a space, slide your stylus to the right, and to do a backspace, slide
the stylus on the keyboard towards the left. Gestures are sliding actions
which register pretty well when you slide your stylus about a key's width(or
height).

Use this technique... and in the future, when you are used with Gestures,
you may find that the extra keys you get using the small keyboard are no
longer needed.

I hope you may find time to experiment on this and hopefully you may find
this a bit helpful. ;-)

--
Carlo Ma. Guerrero
Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices


"normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:J65Xc.48527$rP2.38051@hydra.nntpserver.com...
Carlo Ma. Guerrero [MVP] wrote:

> I don't see any advantage using Small Keys if I can use Big Keys with
> Gestures...

More keys, Carlo... more keys!

> I may lose the CAPS lock key but it is easily augmented by the
> Gestures feature.
>
> Small keys also lessens the accuracy rate thereby making data entry less
> than optimal on a soft input panel.

I'm curious to know how old you are and how many wpm you can type on a
normal keyboard.

I'm 70 with diabetes (i.e. sometimes faced with low blood glucose
shakes). I type 65 - 70 wpm. The small keys are not a problem for me.
Nor are the gestures of any advantage.

I can understand how large keys and gestures might be of value to you
and others, but it is a shame that the availability of more keys is not
published or promoted.

>
> Using Large Keys with Gestures selected:
>
> Capital letters = tap on letter and slide stylus upwards
> Space = tap on any key and slide stylus to the right
> Backspace = tap on any key and slide stylus to the left
> Enter = tap on any key and slide downwards

The gestures feature is one of the very few unique features described,
not in HELP, but in the SETTING themselves
>
> This definitely does away with the extra tap on the Shift button or makes
> the Space Bar practically useless.
> It does away with the Enter key or the Backspace key.

I've been touch typing for at least 50 years. This means I know where
all the keys are. Having the number of keys limited and using gestures
just slows me down. I can see that for someone who has never really
learned to type (i.e. hunt and peck), large keys and gestures could be
of value. BUT, it would be best for everyone, if they knew of all the
capabilities of their device. Right?

>
> The only thing you really lose is the ability to use multiple key presses
> such as doing a Ctrl+Shift which is actually rarely used on a Pocket PC...
>
> Big Keys with Gestures
>
> Possibly equal in usefulness for most users but much better in terms of
> Accuracy.
>

The bottom line here is that you failed to even mention that you get
more keys. Darned if I can figure out why.

Thanks again for your inputs. You help to prove my point(s).

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Thanks for taking the time to write this response; however, I don't know
if you get paid for doing so, or not. If you don't, even more thanks.
My attempts to help others is strictly on the use of my own time.

More below.

Carlo Ma. Guerrero [MVP] wrote:

> Hi normc,
>
> I think the reason why Small Keys are not really marketed as "more keys =
> more features" is simply because it mimics the standard computer keyboard...
> Standard, meaning that everyone expects it to be as is... with all the keys
> there.

I do not know why you interpret what I suggest as marketing. It is a
matter of informing..., helping.... Why should it be kept hidden...,
secret?

We could go on with this discussion forever, BECAUSE your logic,
empathy, and experience is far different than mine.

>
> They then offer 2 other options... Which IMHO you should find more
> advantageous given your situation.

No! No! No! How many times do I have to say it? I didn't... and I don't.

>
> Large Keys alone is not really a favorite of mine since I need to tap on the
> Numbers key to get to the numbers part.
>
> But using Large Keys and Gestures... it is as close as it can get to the
> standard keyboard layout where the numbers row appear similar to that of a
> full-sized keyboard.

At the moment, there are, at least, two who don't agree with you. The
person who designed the extra capability and me. I hope others will
chime in with their thoughts. Maybe I'm still missing something.

I absolutely cannot concede that gestures contribute to the soft
keyboard being similar to a regular keyboard. In this case, I can't
even conceive how you can think that.... but once again, we are
different, even more so than I thought.

>
> I think this is where More is not necessarily better.
>
> I can touch-type pretty well on a standard keyboard. I'm 35 and I'm near
> sighted. Touch-typing does not require a person to look at the keyboard...
> but on a Pocket PC, you are working on a smooth, flat, input panel which
> does not offer any tactile reference. Visual reference is all we have and
> memorizing our hand position when typing may help...

Again ,not the case with me! I often look at the standard keyboard in
order to reduce the number of errors.

I never use a spell checker. I know how to spell well. My primary use
of a spell checker is to locate typos or poorly OCR'd documents.

>
> Optimizing this with larger keys and by using gestures should increase
> accuracy and you will notice that with this setup certain actions have been
> replaced by alternative actions which are not that difficult to learn. You
> should in a few minutes be able to adapt to a larger keyboard with Use
> Gestures selected. You may have to exit the keyboard and reselect it if the
> keyboard does not show up correctly.

I can't believe that you are still trying to sell me on your logic and
ideas!

>
> Give it a try. I assure you, you will not lose any function really with the
> Large Keys, and Use Gestures selected. You will find that certain keys such
> as the space bar, the carriage return, the 4 directional arrows, the shift,
> and back space buttons are actually not necessary.

On my device, large keys were the default. As a result, I used large
keys to begin with. I really didn't like what I saw/got. Pretty soon I
started to think about a smaller footprint on the screen and selected
small. Not only was the footprint minimized, but I got the additional
keys and capabilities.

>
> Here is what I can recommend though...
>
> Keep using Small Keys for the moment. But try to use it with a different
> approach... Gestures is supported in all the keyboard layouts... the only
> reason it has a check box is that when you select it, it will not show the
> keys that are no longer needed.
>
> So with Small Keys selected, you will notice that you can use Gestures
> still... Try to tap on A and without lifting the stylus slide it upwards. To
> simulate a Carriage Return, slide your stylus downwards on the keyboard. To
> add a space, slide your stylus to the right, and to do a backspace, slide
> the stylus on the keyboard towards the left. Gestures are sliding actions
> which register pretty well when you slide your stylus about a key's width(or
> height).
>
> Use this technique... and in the future, when you are used with Gestures,
> you may find that the extra keys you get using the small keyboard are no
> longer needed.
>
> I hope you may find time to experiment on this and hopefully you may find
> this a bit helpful. ;-)
>

I'm not sure that I can get this old mind to learn anything new... like
gestures, especially after doing it one way for over 50 years. In
addition, it strikes me that doing it the same way on BOTH keyboards is
more effective and efficient than using all keys on one and some
gestures on another.

Sure would be interested in other's opinions.

Thanka again for your time.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Hi normc,

No, I am not paid to do this.

I'm just guessing here, but by any chance are you using a Pocket PC Phone
Edition such as the Eten P300 also sold under the brands Yakumo Omikron, or
Everex E500? Because so far this is the only device I've been able to test
which has Large Keys set as default.

>I do not know why you interpret what I suggest as marketing. It is a
>matter of informing..., helping.... Why should it be kept hidden...,
>secret?

Because I found it odd that a standard keyboard requires such attention.
Small Keys is not a secret as it is the default setting for most devices.
All other Pocket PCs have always had Small Keys set as the default keyboard,
which means that all other users will have their first experience using the
keyboard in Small Keys. It seems that your device may be one of the very
few which has Large Keys set as default thereby making your experience a
little more unique. This is also another reason why I actually found your
comment about Small Keys being hidden and a secret a bit unusual. On the
Eten P300/Yakumo Omikron/Everex E500 though, the settings were coded to run
automatically in large keys. This gets annoying since all other Pocket PCs
will retain the keyboard preferences such as Small Keys, Large Keys, Use
Gestures after a soft reset. The Eten P300/Yakumo Omikron/Everex E500 on
the other hand will not and will most definitely default back into Large
Keys and with Use Gestures unticked.

Please do let us know which Pocket PC it is you are using as I am quite
curious as to which other Pocket PC uses Large Keys as the default Keyboard.

My suggestions are just as they are... suggestions. Please do not take them
wrongly as if I'm trying to profess my preference as the correct way of
using the keyboard of a Pocket PC. All I am doing is stating my experience
with the device and how I find it useful. I am sure there will be people who
will choose the same settings as you prefer yourself, and I am also sure
that there will be some who will choose the settings which I have grown so
accustomed to. I am also sure that there will be some users who will choose
a setting which neither you nor I feel comfortable with. I think the beauty
in the Pocket PC is that we can configure it for our own preference.

Mabuhay!
--
Carlo Ma. Guerrero
Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices


"normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news%7Xc.48956$rP2.23222@hydra.nntpserver.com...
Thanks for taking the time to write this response; however, I don't know
if you get paid for doing so, or not. If you don't, even more thanks.
My attempts to help others is strictly on the use of my own time.

More below.

Carlo Ma. Guerrero [MVP] wrote:

> Hi normc,
>
> I think the reason why Small Keys are not really marketed as "more keys =
> more features" is simply because it mimics the standard computer
> keyboard...
> Standard, meaning that everyone expects it to be as is... with all the
> keys
> there.

I do not know why you interpret what I suggest as marketing. It is a
matter of informing..., helping.... Why should it be kept hidden...,
secret?

We could go on with this discussion forever, BECAUSE your logic,
empathy, and experience is far different than mine.

>
> They then offer 2 other options... Which IMHO you should find more
> advantageous given your situation.

No! No! No! How many times do I have to say it? I didn't... and I don't.

>
> Large Keys alone is not really a favorite of mine since I need to tap on
> the
> Numbers key to get to the numbers part.
>
> But using Large Keys and Gestures... it is as close as it can get to the
> standard keyboard layout where the numbers row appear similar to that of a
> full-sized keyboard.

At the moment, there are, at least, two who don't agree with you. The
person who designed the extra capability and me. I hope others will
chime in with their thoughts. Maybe I'm still missing something.

I absolutely cannot concede that gestures contribute to the soft
keyboard being similar to a regular keyboard. In this case, I can't
even conceive how you can think that.... but once again, we are
different, even more so than I thought.

>
> I think this is where More is not necessarily better.
>
> I can touch-type pretty well on a standard keyboard. I'm 35 and I'm near
> sighted. Touch-typing does not require a person to look at the keyboard...
> but on a Pocket PC, you are working on a smooth, flat, input panel which
> does not offer any tactile reference. Visual reference is all we have and
> memorizing our hand position when typing may help...

Again ,not the case with me! I often look at the standard keyboard in
order to reduce the number of errors.

I never use a spell checker. I know how to spell well. My primary use
of a spell checker is to locate typos or poorly OCR'd documents.

>
> Optimizing this with larger keys and by using gestures should increase
> accuracy and you will notice that with this setup certain actions have
> been
> replaced by alternative actions which are not that difficult to learn.
> You
> should in a few minutes be able to adapt to a larger keyboard with Use
> Gestures selected. You may have to exit the keyboard and reselect it if
> the
> keyboard does not show up correctly.

I can't believe that you are still trying to sell me on your logic and
ideas!

>
> Give it a try. I assure you, you will not lose any function really with
> the
> Large Keys, and Use Gestures selected. You will find that certain keys
> such
> as the space bar, the carriage return, the 4 directional arrows, the
> shift,
> and back space buttons are actually not necessary.

On my device, large keys were the default. As a result, I used large
keys to begin with. I really didn't like what I saw/got. Pretty soon I
started to think about a smaller footprint on the screen and selected
small. Not only was the footprint minimized, but I got the additional
keys and capabilities.

>
> Here is what I can recommend though...
>
> Keep using Small Keys for the moment. But try to use it with a different
> approach... Gestures is supported in all the keyboard layouts... the only
> reason it has a check box is that when you select it, it will not show the
> keys that are no longer needed.
>
> So with Small Keys selected, you will notice that you can use Gestures
> still... Try to tap on A and without lifting the stylus slide it upwards.
> To
> simulate a Carriage Return, slide your stylus downwards on the keyboard.
> To
> add a space, slide your stylus to the right, and to do a backspace, slide
> the stylus on the keyboard towards the left. Gestures are sliding actions
> which register pretty well when you slide your stylus about a key's
> width(or
> height).
>
> Use this technique... and in the future, when you are used with Gestures,
> you may find that the extra keys you get using the small keyboard are no
> longer needed.
>
> I hope you may find time to experiment on this and hopefully you may find
> this a bit helpful. ;-)
>

I'm not sure that I can get this old mind to learn anything new... like
gestures, especially after doing it one way for over 50 years. In
addition, it strikes me that doing it the same way on BOTH keyboards is
more effective and efficient than using all keys on one and some
gestures on another.

Sure would be interested in other's opinions.

Thanka again for your time.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Sven, MVP-Mobile Devices wrote:
> My comment on logical was more on the subject of the file system. I really
> believe the functioning of the PPC OS is very similar to the PC, with a few
> idiosyncrasies, driven by the size, and the experience MS wanted to provide.
> Automatically minimizing apps instead of closing them was in effort to
> provide rapid program switching to the most used programs. Not having a
> windowed, but rather a full screen app concept, is really driven by the
> physical size. The on/off button really being a suspend/resume button is
> based on the hardware needing refresh power to RAM and to give startup
> speed. Opening an app to a file dialog rather than an empty app makes sense
> if you believe the device will be used to view things more than create them.
> I think you'll see that the OS really is much like a desktop if you give
> something like Resco a shot. Just try the trial. Yes it does include a
> better Find experience. Gives you the option to view file attributes, lets
> you 'right click' (tap and hold) a folder and get the parameters, etc. It
> also has a registry editor, and zip file support. If you are comfortable in
> the Desktop file explorer, and I expect you are, you'll be comfortable in
> Resco.
>
> You are right. The Help needs some help, but there is only so much room to
> put stuff.

IMHO, there's plenty of room. Mine has 64 Mb internal memory. (My
first Apple II had 16K.) As you know, othere devices have even more.
Decent HELP could have been placed in there, with the ability to delete
as desired. In addition, it could have been provided on the CD, along
with ActiveSync and Outlook.

> You may lean towards less apps and more instructions on how to
> use them effectively. Others may lean towards more apps, dang the
> instructions, don't use them anyway

Indeed, I don't start with HELP, but when I can't 'logic' something out,
I usually find it's because of something subtle. For example, to me
'Large Keys/Small Keys' means just that... very straight-forward. If
there is no documentation indicating that you get more keys and a bit
different operation, how would one know? (I'm not really asking you to
answer, just trying to make a point.)

You are probably too young to remember the acronym, RTFD. This was used
on Prodigy and Compuserve BBs, but the D seems to have disappeared into
the profit column <g>.

> There are some books on Pocket PC, but
> they usually lag the OS a bit. If you go to Amazon and search for Pocket PC
> you'll find some. The How to Do Everything with your PPC is pretty good and
> is probably still pretty useful though I think it is based on PPC2000 and
> you are on PPC2003.

Thanks.

> MS provides part of the help, but the OEMs do
> supplement with Help for their specific apps. Users manuals are another
> story. They do vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, and year to year.
> The best Help you will find is playing, and right here in the forums and the
> enthusiast sites.
>
> Yes, the built in Find, I think should find a number in excel, however
> testing shows me it doesn't. I plan to bring that up with MS.
> I think that is a bug.

I'm not aware that any MS WINDOWS OS FIND command has ever had the
capability to find any content in a file..., only the filename. That's
why Ransack/FileLocator is at the top of my list for PC shareware. I'd
be dead without it. It not only finds content, but shows you the phrase
it is in in the document. In addition, you can print the FIND/found list.

> If you have #59.9 (a text value due to the # in front) in a
> spreadsheet, Find will locate it if you look for 59.9. If you have 59.9 as
> a number, it won't. I assume it is because it is not stored as 59.9 if it is
> a number, versus if it is text. Still wrong. If you look for 227 it will
> find every instance of 227 in phone numbers, house numbers, it's existence
> in word documents, etc, but it won't find that plain numerical entry in a
> spreadsheet. So I lied, but if you can remember you stayed at a Marriot and
> you have that in a cell in the spreadsheet, searching for Marriot will
> dredge up that spreadsheet, and every appt that has Marriot in the location
> and every Marriot you have in Contacts, and e-mails that have Marriot in it.
> It's really a 'file contains' search, in your documents.

At the moment, I haven't been able to FIND any content. And I'll
probably never understand why it doesn't search the entire device.
Strikes me that is a pretty simple task to just have it look in more
than one place.

>
> I think you have come to grips with the Startup folder really doing the same
> as the desktop startup folder. The difference is that On/Off isn't the same
> as On/Off on the desktop. You can't turn the PPC Off, but you can reboot it,
> a soft reset, which then triggers those startup items. It's like hitting the
> reset button on you PC. You shouldn't really have to soft reset often, but
> don't shy away from it either. It is like a desktop re-boot. Cleans out the
> gunk, loads the OS fresh, so to speak, restores the memory that bad apps
> have failed to release, etc. It does close apps unkindly, just like the
> reset button on your PC, so make sure you don't have a word document open
> that you have made changes to when you hit the button, you'll lose the
> changes.


> Closing Word with a task switcher, like Dell's, or SPB Plus closes
> it properly so that's not a problem. Incidentally, I noted you were going to
> put the task switcher in the startup folder, and you were running Pocket
> Plus. Pocket Plus gives you all the capabilities of the Dell Task Switcher
> and more. I'd say loading Dell's switcher would just be taking up extra RAM.

Yes, I recognize those features, but I'm not familiar enough with Spb
yet. I realize that Spb allows me to put icons on the TODAY screen, but
there is no provision (that I can find) for naming them. So, my four
Excel files all look the same. So I put them in the START MENU with a name.
>
> Have fun with your PPC, there really is a lot more than can be done with it
> than even those that created it envisioned.

Thanks again for your help.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

--
Sven, MS-MVP Mobile Devices
"normc" <normc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:FJdYc.16646$JG7.5627@hydra.nntpserver.com...

> Indeed, I don't start with HELP, but when I can't 'logic' something out,
> I usually find it's because of something subtle. For example, to me
> 'Large Keys/Small Keys' means just that... very straight-forward. If
> there is no documentation indicating that you get more keys and a bit
> different operation, how would one know? (I'm not really asking you to
> answer, just trying to make a point.)

I understand the point, but small/large seems something that you'd likely
notice the extra keys by just playing, faster than reading a big thick
manual that tries to capture every nuance.

> You are probably too young to remember the acronym, RTFD.
Hah, that was an acronym around even before modems and PCs, which I am old
enough to remember. Got my engineering degree with a slide rule (which came
with a manual BTW)

>This was used on Prodigy and Compuserve BBs, but the D seems to have
disappeared into
> the profit column <g>.
That's likely the real reason. You and I probably know why software boxes
are the size they are. There used to be a book in there

>
> > Yes, the built in Find, I think should find a number in excel, however
> > testing shows me it doesn't. I plan to bring that up with MS.
> > I think that is a bug.
>
> I'm not aware that any MS WINDOWS OS FIND command has ever had the
> capability to find any content in a file..., only the filename.

OK, then Search, rather than Find. It certainly gives you the option of
searching for text strings within files of any sort.

> At the moment, I haven't been able to FIND any content. And I'll
> probably never understand why it doesn't search the entire device.
> Strikes me that is a pretty simple task to just have it look in more
> than one place.
>
Why would the typical user care if the string "PR" happens to appear in an
executable or a dll? I am more likely to want to find the memo I sent to the
PR dept than be looking for the existance of 'pr' in ad2setup.msi,
firstfox_app.h, or even WMSysPr9.prx, all of which the Windows Search
feature found when I looked for "PR" in C:. Had I narrowed the search to my
documents, I'd have a better chance of finding the document I created and
was looking for quickly. The PPC by default looks at what you created,
which should make the search quicker than if it were to search everything on
the device.

Can't imagine why you can't find anything. Just open Find, put something in
the Find: box, like 'bob' (no quotes), leave Type: as All data and hit Go.
I'd be surprised if you don't have a bob in your address book, but if you
don't, try a name you know is in there. Open a Pocket Word doc and put bob
in a sentence in there and run the search again.

Resco does increase the searching capabilities though, if the built in Find
doesn't do it for you.