Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion (
More info?)
On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 11:25:52 -0500, dave weil <dweil2@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
>On Sun, 4 Sep 2005 06:29:22 +0000 (UTC), Stewart Pinkerton
><patent3@dircon.co.uk> wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>>>>That engine - in current 3.2 size - has *always* produced 247 HP in
>>>>VWs and Audis.
>>>
>>>http
/www.internetautoguide.com/car-specifications/09-int/2004/volkswagen/touareg/
>>>2004 Volkswagen Touareg Performance & Efficiency Standard Features
>>>
>>>- 3,189 cc 3.2 liters 6 V front engine with 84 mm bore, 95.9 mm
>>>stroke, 11 compression ratio, double overhead cam, variable valve
>>>timing/camshaft and four valves per cylinder
>>>- Premium unleaded fuel
>>>- Multi-point injection fuel system
>>>- Main 100 liter premium unleaded fuel tank
>>>- Power: EEC and 164 kW , 220 HP @ 5,400 rpm; 225 ft lb , 310 Nm @
>>>3,200 rpm
>>>
>>>http
/www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/?id=78
>>>ENGINES/TRANSMISSIONS
>>>3.2 V6 petrol (3,189cc): 162kW (220PS) at 5,800 rpm / 305Nm (225 lb
>>>ft) torque at 3,200 rpm.
>>>
>>>So much for your knowledge of "history".
>>
>>It's already been stipulated that the Touareg is the exception,
>>presumably for marketing reasons.
>
>Busshit. You haven't retracted your claim that the Touareg has ALWAYS
>had 240 (or plus as you tried to claim earlier). It hasn't. It used to
>only have 220HP.
>
>>Typical Vile distortion of reality.
>
>You're joking of course. You ignore the reason that I posted those
>links and you change the subject. Just say the words, stumblebum. "I
>was wrong. The VW version of this motor HASN'T always had the current
>level of tune". You CAN'T, can you?
>
>>Your original point was that the Porsche version is special, which it
>>just plain is not.
>
>No, my original point is that the performance WASN'T exactly the same,
>as you claimed. It's STILL not. The Porsche STILL beats the VW by a
>second (and it used to be two). This is NOT identical (surely in the
>engineering world, the word Identical still has some meaning). And I
>wonder how much the new Porsche 500 hp model beats the W12 equipped
>model. Or do you consider 50 hp a "nit"?
>
>>That big-bore VR6 engine was developed for the R32
>>Golf and the TT, and now is also used in the new Passat and the Audi
>>A3. In all cases, it produces 247 HP. There's a 3.6 litre FSI version
>>with close on 300 horses waiting to go into the new TT, and it will no
>>doubt also find its way across the range in time.
>
><shrug>
>
>None of this has anything to do with the original point. And later on,
>I'll show you where you're wrong about R32 and the new Passat.
>
>>>>Don't believe everything the Porsche boys try to tell
>>>>you, Vile, they simply don't have the resources to develop serious new
>>>>engines (or indeed an SUV).
>>>
>>>I guess you don't know how a company can increase horsepower by even
>>>simple tweaks to an intake/exhaust system. Heck, a more efficient
>>>exhaust from manifold to tailpipe ALONE can add 5 HP. I guess you
>>>don't think that Porsche has the resources to maximize the diesign of
>>>an existing motor. You'd be wrong, of course, but you can reach for
>>>any desperate measure that you'd like. But it looks like VAG DID want
>>>to narrow the over 20 HP gap by doing some tweaking of their own.
>>
>>Still trying to lie your way out of your obvious foul up, Vile? The
>>Cayenne has the same power as every other vehicle using the 3.2 VR6
>>*except* the Touareg.
>
>So? so far, you haven't been able to show any documentation that
>disproves the idea that Porsche's tweaking is unique to Porsche.
>
>>No special tuning by Porsche,
>
>Wrong.
>
>> just an agreement
>>by VW to *detune* the Touareg to save Porsche blushes.
>
>Why on earth would they do that? It's THEIR motor, right? Why would
>they sign/make such an agreement? Both parties insisted that
>development would be done in-house (and with great secrecy toward the
>other). They didn't "detune" the Touareg, the old base motor at 220 hp
>was the standard. Both Porsche AND VW simply took it further, with VAG
>declining to take the Touareg to the Audi and Porsche levels. They
>obviously did that to protect the AUDI marque, not the Porsche marque.
>
>>>And who cares that Audi (another "upscale marque") ALSO maintains a
>>>respectable difference in specs between VW and itself. Bringing in
>>>Audi just shows your desperation to avoid saying the simple words,
>>>"Hey, I'm wrong about the specs". In fact, it supports my OWN
>>>contention, because even VAG ITSELF keeps a spec advantage to their
>>>"upscale" brand.
>>
>>Still trying to lie your way out of your obvious foul up, Vile? The
>>Golf R32 and new Passat also use the same engine, rated at 247 HP in
>>each case.
>
>Wrong. The R32 started with 241 HP, at a time when the Audi WAS rated
>at 247, and this year, it's going all the way to 250 HP. Which means
>that they're tweaking it even further that Porsche has to this point.
>But since these cars aren't in direct competition with Porsche,
>Porsche doesn't really care. I guarantee you that if they put this new
>version in the Touareg, the Porsche team will find a way to tweak it
>to 255 or 260.
I guarantee they won't - they'll just go straight to the 3.6 version.
BTW, the R32 always had 247 HP in the UK, whatever it may have had in
other markets at launch.
>http
/www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/volkswagen_news/printer_1472.shtml
>"Volkswagen News
>The New Golf R32 – New Edition Of The Most Powerful Golf Ever
>By source: Volkswagen AG
>Aug 9, 2005, 09:05
>
>Volkswagen AG has released the first official information on the new
>Golf R32 for the German/European market. The immediate question that
>will come to North American enthusiasts minds is why another 3.2l VR6?
>The 3.2l VR6 in this latest generation R32 now has fuel stratisfied
>injection (FSI) technology and now outputs 250hp more efficiently and
>with better economy".
>
>http
/www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2050725.005/page/2/lang/eng/volkswagen/1.html
>"3.2 V6 FSI, 184 kW: As of the fourth quarter of 2005, a newly
>developed 3,169 cm3 V6 engine will be available for the Passat
>Variant. At 6,200 rpm and with 184 kW / 250 hp at its disposal, it can
>produce a maximum torque of 330 Newton metres (as of 2,500 and up to
>3,000 rpm)".
>
>Etc., etc., etc...
>
>Oh, BTW, the new A6 gets 255 HP (maybe you poor backwater types aren't
>going to get the new tuning <shrug>). Once again, advantage to Audi.
>
>http
/www.audiusa.com/model_home/0,,bodyStyleId-4,00.html?bodystyle=a6sedan
>A6 3.2
>Starting at $42,620*
>The all-new A6 3.2 performs with uncommon vigor when fitted with the
>powerful but economical V6 engine with FSI® Direct Injection. With 255
>hp, the first ever Audi FSI engine in North America goes from 0-60 mph
>in just 7.1 seconds.
Shame you don't know much about cars, Vile. That's a *completely*
different engine, a conventional 60 degree V6 fitted longitudinally.
>http
/autos.yahoo.com/newcars/audi_a6_32withtiptronic_2005/16472/style_overview.html
>Quick Facts about the 2005 Audi A6 3.2 with Tiptronic:
>Invoice Price:$38,757 get dealer quotes
>MSRP:$41,900
>Estimated Payments:$874/month* find current rates
>Rebates & Incentives:Cash Back / Special Financing more info
>
>Gas Mileage:NL mpg city / NL mpg hwy
>Engine/s:3.2L V6, 24 valve, 255@6500hp
>
>
>And, this IS a redesign, a 3.2-litre V6 FSI which is NOT technically
>the same motor on the Touareg (at this point). At least, VAG is
>calling it "new", because they've made the intake system more
>efficient. Hey, sorta what Porsche did a few years ago.
>
>You lose.
>
>Again.
See above, you ignorant cretin. That engine is a FSI development of
the old quad-cam Audi 2.8 and 3.0 V6s, and has nothing whatever to do
with the similarly sized transverse-mounted twin-cam VR6 engine.
--
Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering
Facebook
Twitter