Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion (
More info?)
On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 07:43:35 -0500, dave weil <dweil2@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
>On Sat, 3 Sep 2005 07:50:13 +0000 (UTC), Stewart Pinkerton
><patent3@dircon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 13:46:49 -0500, dave weil <dweil2@bellsouth.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 18:14:36 +0000 (UTC), Stewart Pinkerton
>>><patent3@dircon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 01:51:23 -0500, dave weil <dweil2@bellsouth.net>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 20:48:56 +0000 (UTC), Stewart Pinkerton
>>>>><patent3@dircon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 13:16:22 -0500, dave weil <dweil2@bellsouth.net>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 17:28:14 +0000 (UTC), Stewart Pinkerton
>>>>>>><patent3@dircon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:18:57 -0400, "Clyde Slick"
>>>>>>>><YustabeSlim@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>"nyob123@peoplepc.com" <NYOB123@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>news:3FxRe.4944$_84.2418@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When people flat out lie about the perfomance improvements that a peice of
>>>>>>>>>> equipment, it's my feeling that such information shoud be challenged. If
>>>>>>>>>> manufacturers want to chare high prices for gear they ought to expect
>>>>>>>>>> challenges. Aside from liking the way one peice of gear looks as opposed
>>>>>>>>>> to another, why would anyone want tos spend more monye than needed to
>>>>>>>>>> achieve the same performance. Do you think they'd sell more VW's of they
>>>>>>>>>> performed exactly the way Porsche does? Do you tink if someone made a car
>>>>>>>>>> that performed exactly the way a Porsce does that they'd likely sell
>>>>>>>>>> plenty?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>They do - the VW Touareg and Porsche Cayenne are the *same* car.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Until you look at the motors. That has more than a little to do with
>>>>>>>"performance".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Sorry you know so little about cars.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Sorry you're unaware that the base models use the 3.2 V-6 VW petrol
>>>>>>engine,
>>>>>
>>>>>Except that the Porsche gets 25 more HP out of the same motor. Sorry
>>>>>you don't know more about what you're talking about.
>>>>
>>>>Bullshit. The Porsche is rated at 247 HP (same as the rating for that
>>>>engine in all other VW and Audi cars in which it's used), while it's
>>>>rated at 240 in the Touareg, for no reason I can find. There is *no*
>>>>special Porsche tuning at work here, just some mysterious derating in
>>>>the Touareg (mebbe Porsche's marketing guys insisted?). Five'll get
>>>>you ten they'll be identical on a rolling road........
>>>
>>>Why can't you just admit that you are wrong?
>>>
>>>Oh it's you, that's why...
>>>
>>>"So why did Porsche develop a V6 engine? Well, in designing and
>>>constructing the unit-body chassis of the Cayenne, Porsche worked with
>>>parent company VW, who was co-developing the Touareg SUV. Although the
>>>3.2-liter V6 is snatched from the Touareg, Porsche engineers assure
>>>that extensive modification has been done to guarantee Porsche
>>>performance. For example, the new intake system uses continuously
>>>variable valve timing and two overhead camshafts. The exhaust has also
>>>been tweaked to bellow the familiar Porsche note. For towing, the
>>>cooling system was also enhanced to withstand pulling in high ambient
>>>temperatures.
>>>
>>>
>>>V6 Horsepower
>>>Porsche reports horsepower for its V6 version at 247 and torque at 228
>>>lb.-ft. A Touareg yields only 220 hp. but creates 225 lb.-ft. of
>>>torque. However, all that torque arrives later in the power band in
>>>the VW (3,200 rpm as opposed to 2,500 rpm in the Porsche), so Porsche
>>>can tout slightly better utility capabilities".
>>>
>>>Looks like VW has added another 20 HP though for 2005. Still less than
>>>the Porsche.
>>
>>That engine - in current 3.2 size - has *always* produced 247 HP in
>>VWs and Audis.
>
>http
/www.internetautoguide.com/car-specifications/09-int/2004/volkswagen/touareg/
>2004 Volkswagen Touareg Performance & Efficiency Standard Features
>
>- 3,189 cc 3.2 liters 6 V front engine with 84 mm bore, 95.9 mm
>stroke, 11 compression ratio, double overhead cam, variable valve
>timing/camshaft and four valves per cylinder
>- Premium unleaded fuel
>- Multi-point injection fuel system
>- Main 100 liter premium unleaded fuel tank
>- Power: EEC and 164 kW , 220 HP @ 5,400 rpm; 225 ft lb , 310 Nm @
>3,200 rpm
>
>http
/www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/?id=78
>ENGINES/TRANSMISSIONS
>3.2 V6 petrol (3,189cc): 162kW (220PS) at 5,800 rpm / 305Nm (225 lb
>ft) torque at 3,200 rpm.
>
>So much for your knowledge of "history".
It's already been stipulated that the Touareg is the exception,
presumably for marketing reasons. Typical Vile distortion of reality.
Your original point was that the Porsche version is special, which it
just plain is not. That big-bore VR6 engine was developed for the R32
Golf and the TT, and now is also used in the new Passat and the Audi
A3. In all cases, it produces 247 HP. There's a 3.6 litre FSI version
with close on 300 horses waiting to go into the new TT, and it will no
doubt also find its way across the range in time.
>>Don't believe everything the Porsche boys try to tell
>>you, Vile, they simply don't have the resources to develop serious new
>>engines (or indeed an SUV).
>
>I guess you don't know how a company can increase horsepower by even
>simple tweaks to an intake/exhaust system. Heck, a more efficient
>exhaust from manifold to tailpipe ALONE can add 5 HP. I guess you
>don't think that Porsche has the resources to maximize the diesign of
>an existing motor. You'd be wrong, of course, but you can reach for
>any desperate measure that you'd like. But it looks like VAG DID want
>to narrow the over 20 HP gap by doing some tweaking of their own.
Still trying to lie your way out of your obvious foul up, Vile? The
Cayenne has the same power as every other vehicle using the 3.2 VR6
*except* the Touareg. No special tuning by Porsche, just an agreement
by VW to *detune* the Touareg to save Porsche blushes.
>And who cares that Audi (another "upscale marque") ALSO maintains a
>respectable difference in specs between VW and itself. Bringing in
>Audi just shows your desperation to avoid saying the simple words,
>"Hey, I'm wrong bout the specs". In fact, it supports my OWN
>contention, because even VAG ITSELF keeps a spec advantage to their
>"upscale" brand.
Still trying to lie your way out of your obvious foul up, Vile? The
Golf R32 and new Passat also use the same engine, rated at 247 HP in
each case.
--
Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering
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