Surround Sound System w/o Sub

[Boogierobot]

Hello,
I would like to get a surround sound system where I can replace the subwoofer with a much better one. I am a MAJOR basshead, so many subs that are in surround sound systems dont cut it. I will be using it mainly for music and gaming, and listen to mainly dubstep and other electronic music. I will be using this on a computer, although a little hub where I can change volume and plug the cords in would be nice. I was looking at the Bic America F12 as a possible option, but since the F12 is $200, I would like to find a surround sound system that I can use this on for as cheap as possible. The problem I keep running into is, most surround sound systems that are cheap, are run FROM the subwoofer, preventing me from changing it. I am open to using a receiver, but would like to do this for the lowest price possible (all the good receivers I've found are $200+). Any suggestions on how to go about doing this?

 

[guanyu210379]

If you are talking about cheap surround sets like Logitech Z906 or similar, no you can not replace the sub.

If you build a surround system using an A/V receiver and the surround sets + sub, then yes, you can replace any of the surround speakers, center and sub as you like.
The thing is, such surround sets including the receiver and sub ans center, if you wanna have good ones, will cost you at least USD1000.
I am using Yamaha RX-V475 (5.1) and Nubert NuBox 483 speaker set.

 

[iam2thecrowe]

Yeah, your going to need a receiver with a subwoofer pre-out. The F12 sub you show has high level inputs, so you can run the two main stereo channels from the speakers into the sub, or in the case of a HTIB setup where there is a passive sub, you can run the passive sub speaker output into the high level inputs of the active F12 sub.

If electronic is the type of music you listen to then get one of these:
http/www.logitech.com/en-au/product/speaker-system-z906
This should shake the room very well, the sub is 165w rms with 8" woofer. the bic america is 150 watts RMS. the bic america will go a little lower according to specs (25hz), and may be a bit more efficient. unlikely any dub step requires anything below 30hz. I would see if you can go into a store and demo the ligitech system because it would probably suit your music just fine.

 

[rhysiam]

A couple of thoughts/things to think about.

If you're always at your computer for music & gaming, you can't use headphones? In my experience you have to pay 10 times the price of headphones to get a speaker set up of similar quality. So you'd be hard pressed to get a system that matches the sound quality of a (well chosen) $200 set of headphones for less than $2K. You should be able to adjust your levels (boost the bass) via software to get the sound you're after.

If you really do want speakers, do you need a full surround system? Music is mixed for just stereo. You could get a better quality system at the same budget if you go with a 2.1 rather than a 5.1 system.

Finally - can you go second hand? While technology does progress, unless you need newer features (Dolby Digital, DTS, HDMI, etc) the fundamentals of a good quality amp and good quality speakers haven't really changed all that much in the last 20 years, particularly for music. If you have a good ear and are prepared to go and listen to some second hand units selling in your local area, you could probably pick up a good quality older system for not a lot of money. Particularly if you don't mind large speakers, they take up space so people tend to sell them on. Quality, large speakers can probably crank out plenty of bass if you EQ them the way you like. I admit that having a large and old pair of speakers is hardly a sexy solution, but if you want music quality and bass, it might not be a bad option.

 

[Boogierobot]

Yeah, your going to need a receiver with a subwoofer pre-out. The F12 sub you show has high level inputs, so you can run the two main stereo channels from the speakers into the sub, or in the case of a HTIB setup where there is a passive sub, you can run the passive sub speaker output into the high level inputs of the active F12 sub.

If electronic is the type of music you listen to then get one of these:
http/www.logitech.com/en-au/product/speaker-system-z906
This should shake the room very well, the sub is 165w rms with 8" woofer. the bic america is 150 watts RMS. the bic america will go a little lower according to specs (25hz), and may be a bit more efficient. unlikely any dub step requires anything below 30hz. I would see if you can go into a store and demo the ligitech system because it would probably suit your music just fine.

My family and friends all have logitech systems, and they all sound muddy and distorted, and imo are complete trash. I would like to have something a little more expensive with better sound and quality. I am not one of those 12 year olds that if they get anything with a sub will love it.

 

[guanyu210379]

Logitech Z906, Creative T6300, etc. are all cheap surround+sub solutions.
Yes, they are muddy but they reflected their price.
Read my post again, for a good surround set system you must invest more than USD1000.
You will need also quite a lot of space.
Only then, you can get good quality.
For gaming PC, Z906 is more than enough, if you ask me.
I am using high quality surround system only for my home theater room and am playing games on PC only with Z623 during the day and a V-Moda M100 + ASUS Essence STXII during the night.

Yup! You can also consider getting a good headphone as alternative and a good soundcard like ASUS Essence STXII or a dedicated good DAC. With the headphone, you should spend a lot less for a good sound quality.

 

[ien2222]

I very much doubt he's looking for or even wants headphones. He's a self-declared "basshead", which probably means he really loves the upper bass/lower midrange thump along with low end rumble, can't get that with phones.

@OP:

Going with a AVR will be your best bet, it solves certain problems and is generally easier to deal with. If money is tight for buying everything at once, just start with the sub and a pair of speakers. Cost wise, it really depends on what you want out of your system. Here's a couple of suggestions:

You can get something like the Energy Take Classics or Monoprice's 5.1 (10565) (which is essentially the same as the Energy's) and just switch out the sub for the BIC. This gets you 5 decent satellite speakers for you to use. So, with a $200 AVR you're looking at $650-$750 total. This isn't a bad setup, there are people who run this with their home theater and are quite happy with it.

Another suggestion would be to get NHT SuperZeros. They are priced at $100 each, but they sometimes have B-stock (look in the clearance section) that go as low as $69ea. So, anywhere from $350-$500 for 5 speakers, but are definitely better then the Energy/Monoprice speakers, additionally these speakers are known for their excellent nearfield attributes. These would be my suggestion, and if it's something you might consider I'd suggest contacting them, they may offer a little bit of a discount on 5 if you purchase them at the same time but at the very least, it's something you can build over a few months.

So, why the AVR route? First and foremost, bass management. Pretty much all consumer level sound cards/software has terrible bass management if any at all, it's just easier and better to use an AVR. Another thing, room correction software is increasingly found in all but the lowest entry level AVR, this can definitely be a bonus. Also you mentioned wanting a control dial for volume, this is the best way of doing it plus it gives you various inputs to use and a headphone jack too.

If you don't want to go with an AVR you have the option of using active speakers, these are self powered. Popular brands include M-Audio, Audioengine, Behringer. Personally I'd opt for Emotiva's Airmotiv 4s, though I believe it's currently out of stock right now.

As for the sub, to give you another option in the $200 range there's the Dayton Sub-1500. But, given the description of your preferences, I'd suggest a better sub than the F12. For $329 you can get the Hsu STF-2 which is on another level, it's one of the best under $500 subs out there and is probably the best value for the money for subs under $500.

A word of note though, this sub starts to fall off at 100hz, this means that the take classics would not be a great fit since their fall off is at 115hz, you could still use them and probably wouldn't even matter any since I'm guessing you'll run the sub a little hot compared to the speakers anyways. Just wanted to mention it though.

You didn't really specify a budget other than cheap as possible, certainly there's cheaper ways to go than this that will work, there's a whole mess of speakers that are under $200 per pair vs the NHT's, could go with 3 pairs of M-Audio AV30's for $270 total without the need for an AVR. Kind of depends on you.

As for my suggestion, I'd go with an AVR, the SuperZero's, and the Hsu sub. I doubt you'll ever feel like you need to upgrade anything unless you start using it for movies and even then it's a good mid range HT kit. It's about $1000 or a little bit less, but you don't need to buy all 5 SuperZero's at once.

One last thing, if you do go with an AVR if you won't be using PC->AVR->Monitor via HDMI, you'll need to use spdif using either optical or coax digital. This will require you to have a sound card/MB that supports Dolby Digital Live or DTS Connect in order to get 5.1.