The Only Problem with Tivo...

[Zardoz]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Randy S." <rswittNO@SPAMgmail.com> wrote in message
news:d805t1$t96$1@spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu...
>
> You're accusing someone of not having the same values as you apparently do
> on at least one issue.


No, not at all. I was pointing out that the odds are extremely in favor of
Seth being a God Damned hypocrit like every other "do gooder" that ever
lived.
I made statement about the author, I said absolutely nothing regarding the
ethics of or my opinion of the issue at hand.


> I think you're going to have to learn to accept that. It doesn't make
> the other person wrong.
>
> Randy S.

It doesn't make Seth right either. Since neither of us is right or wrong,
WTF are you pissing and moaning about?

 

[Zardoz]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Seth" <seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ONoe.2706$S62.929@fe11.lga...
>
> Typical attitude of someone who thinks he/she is entitled to more than
> he/she actually is. Want something for free? Justify why you shouldn't
> pay for it. Because I at least acknowledge how things are, there must be
> something wrong with me.
>

What's wrong with you (besides being a hypocrit) is that you are not
acknowledging how things are at all. Saying how things are means in reality
not in Utopia.

Saying that it's illegal for Mexican citizens to "sneak" across the border
to the US isn't saying how it is because we all know how it is - they cross
that border faster than anybody can count them. Saying that violating a
software license agreement is wrong (though not illegal -at least not at
this level) is "how it is" is asinine when you know the reality is
different. Software license agreements are being violated everyday by a
whole lot of people - That's "how it is."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

> It doesn't make Seth right either. Since neither of us is right or wrong,
> WTF are you pissing and moaning about?

This thread is a waste. This has been hashed over dozens of times in
the past year. Posters fall into 2 groups:

- Tivo should work w/out subscription. I own everything since I paid
for it, so I should be able to do anything I want with it. Tivo is evil
because they require me to pay to make it work. I will find any reason
to justify my getting limited service for free because that's what I
want. I will ignore the fact that there are plenty of other DVR's that
do exactly what I want. I will whine that someone should make a free
version of the OS without making any effort towards doing so myself.

- Tivo has decided that they don't want to provide a limited service for
free option. Tivo is a business that can decide how they want to sell
their products, even if I wish it was different. I recognize that I
signed or explicitly agreed to a contract that clearly states that I do
not own the software on the Tivo (links can be provided), and may not
alter it in such a way as to avoid Tivo's payment structure. I
recognize that alternative DVR's exist and if I want one that has
limited service and/or doesn't require a monthly fee I can either a) buy
a lifetime subscription, b) buy a Tivo/DVD recorder combo that comes
with tivo Basic, or c) buy a non-Tivo DVR.

You've clearly stated which camp you're in. So have I (I in no way
claim to be unbiased). We may as well drop the thread, because I highly
doubt either of us will change camps.

Randy S.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

<Jason> wrote in message news:sfk6a19t3jdf6reou6lis8fmiplhgasega@4ax.com...
>
> The OP's hardware, legally bought and owned, is not functional
> unless he agrees to send payments to the seller for as long as he
> wants to be able to use his own property. So a unit bought for
> $199 with a monthly fee of $12.95 doubles the total cost in only
> 16 months.

So pay the frigging lifetime and stop whining already, or write your own
goddamned software for it. And stop buying units for $199, while you're at
it. My last unit was free after rebates, and $99 deals are available
probably 360 days a year.

> Someone's going to say "You're full of bull, that extra fee is
> for the service subscription!" We don't have the option of
> refusing this 'extra' feature, it's required. And because it's
> required, the word 'extra' doesn't apply.
>
> How would it look if microsoft adopted this same procedure for
> the windows update service? You buy a nice new computer. Your

I bought a PC. I want to use it to read e-mail. But they made me pay for
Windows XP Home to get the e-mail application. I didn't even have the
option, it was bundled with the PC. It's not fair, I bought the hardware, I
should be able to use it anyway I please. Waah! Waah!

It's a dead horse, and it's been beat to death here many times.

Ed
84HurstOlds@nowherenow.com

 

[Zardoz]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Randy S." <rswittNO@SPAMgmail.com> wrote in message
news:d81dfo$g2o$1@spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu...
>
>
> You've clearly stated which camp you're in. So have I (I in no way claim
> to be unbiased). We may as well drop the thread, because I highly doubt
> either of us will change camps.
>
> Randy S.

How does saying that Seth's a hypocrit clearly state what camp I'm in?
How can you breathe with your head so far up your ass?

 

[Zardoz]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"SINNER" <arcade.master@googlemail.net> wrote in message
news:Xns966A66255FB0DLouiscypherhellorg@140.99.99.130...
>* Special Wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
>
>> ...Is that the box is apparently useless if you don't pay.
>
> Apparently? This is perfectly clear on the box.
>

Saying that a subscription is required is not the same as saying useless w/o
a subscription. My S1 Tivo boxes all said "subscription required." That
pretty much shits on your arguement.

 

[Zardoz]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Howard" <stile99@email.com> wrote in message
news:Xns966A7202055Estile@129.250.170.89...
> Special <spec@spec.org> wrote in news:q2n0a1po2pa5rhqe923cmiqtr9b8851qqo@
> 4ax.com:
>
>> ...Is that the box is apparently useless if you don't pay.
>
> Who told you otherwise?
>

Maybe all the people withe S1 units that use 'em everyday w/o a subscription
even though the box said it was required.

 

[Zardoz]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"machinehead" <zzz@zzz.com> wrote in message
news:62891$42a0a107$d1cc767a$31025@snip.allthenewsgroups.com...
>
> "Howard" <stile99@email.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns966A7202055Estile@129.250.170.89...
>> Special <spec@spec.org> wrote in news:q2n0a1po2pa5rhqe923cmiqtr9b8851qqo@
>> 4ax.com:
>>
>> > ...Is that the box is apparently useless if you don't pay.
>>
>> Who told you otherwise?
>>
>> > month I took the Tivo out. It's a shame that I can't program it to
>> > record shows by date/time like a VCR. I would never buy another Tivo
>> > product because of this built in uselessness of the hardware.
>>
>> Yeah...I can't program my cell phone to record shows by date/time like a
>> VCR either. However, not having been designed to do so, I don't worry
>> about it.
>
> Moreover, you can't use your cell phone to make and receive calls if you
> don't pay, either. So, my advice to the OP: Don't ever buy a cell phone;
> the hardware is useless. Come to think of it, I don't recommend a
> landline
> phone, either.
>
> Ed
> 84HurstOlds@nowherenow.com
>
>

Could you think of an analogy that's any worse?
My boot wasn't designed to fit up your ass, but I can make it fit in one
swift move.

 

[seth]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Zardoz" <dawiz@oz.com> wrote in message
news:1118032105.4f3600dc26228c59fb0581991d329b30@teranews...
>
> "Seth" <seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3ONoe.2706$S62.929@fe11.lga...
>>
>> Typical attitude of someone who thinks he/she is entitled to more than
>> he/she actually is. Want something for free? Justify why you shouldn't
>> pay for it. Because I at least acknowledge how things are, there must be
>> something wrong with me.
>
> What's wrong with you (besides being a hypocrit) is that you are not
> acknowledging how things are at all. Saying how things are means in
> reality not in Utopia.
>
> Saying that it's illegal for Mexican citizens to "sneak" across the border
> to the US isn't saying how it is because we all know how it is - they
> cross that border faster than anybody can count them. Saying that
> violating a software license agreement is wrong (though not illegal -at
> least not at this level) is "how it is" is asinine when you know the
> reality is different. Software license agreements are being violated
> everyday by a whole lot of people - That's "how it is."

"Software license agreements are being violated everyday by a whole lot of
people ". So? That makes it legal? Yes, that is "PART" of how it is. The
other part of how it is is that it is still illegal. That makes me a
hypocrite?

The OP made a statement of opinion about how he/she thinks TiVo
hardware/software should work. I merely pointed out A) how it does work and
B) a possible alternative. How does that make me a hypocrite?

 

[Zardoz]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Seth" <seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2u3pe.47763$NZ1.7227@fe09.lga...
>
> "Software license agreements are being violated everyday by a whole lot
> of people ". So? That makes it legal? Yes, that is "PART" of how it is.
> The other part of how it is is that it is still illegal. That makes me a
> hypocrite?
>

I didn't say anything makes it legal (other than the fact that it's never
been illegal - it's a civil matter). I just told you "how it is" vs. your
Utopian "how it should be" that you call "how it is"
It would really help if you read for context rather than reading to find
your next arguement.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

>>Moreover, you can't use your cell phone to make and receive calls if you
>>don't pay, either. So, my advice to the OP: Don't ever buy a cell phone;
>>the hardware is useless. Come to think of it, I don't recommend a
>>landline
>>phone, either.
>>
>>Ed
>>84HurstOlds@nowherenow.com
>>
>>
>
>
> Could you think of an analogy that's any worse?
> My boot wasn't designed to fit up your ass, but I can make it fit in one
> swift move.

Instead of making yourself look like an ass (unless that's what you're
trying to do), why don't you explain why you think that's a poor
analogy? It seems like a pretty damn good one to me. Let's see:

- Both Tivo and the cell phone company require you to purchase
compatible hardware up front.

- Both often offer significant discounts on that hardware to encourage
customers to sign up for service.

- Both require monthly service fees to be functional *at* all.

Damn, even better than I thought at first.

Randy S.

 

[sinner]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

* Zardoz wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

> "SINNER" <arcade.master@googlemail.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns966A66255FB0DLouiscypherhellorg@140.99.99.130...
>>* Special Wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

>>> ...Is that the box is apparently useless if you don't pay.

>> Apparently? This is perfectly clear on the box.

> Saying that a subscription is required is not the same as saying useless w/o
> a subscription.

The word REQUIRED means without it, this piece of hardware wont work,
you know, like Batteries Required.

> My S1 Tivo boxes all said "subscription required." That
> pretty much shits on your arguement.

Urm, I dont think so, thanks for playing.

--
David
> Where in the US is Linus?

He was in the "Promise Land".
-- David S. Miller <davem@caip.rutgers.edu>

 

[Zardoz]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"SINNER" 99nesorjd@gates_of_hell.com wrote in message
news:8h0fn2x9ec.ln2@news.gates_of_hell.com...
>
> The word REQUIRED means without it, this piece of hardware wont work,
> you know, like Batteries Required.
>
>> My S1 Tivo boxes all said "subscription required." That
>> pretty much shits on your arguement.
>
> Urm, I dont think so, thanks for playing.
>

My S1 Tivos can be used as a DVR w/o a subscription. The boxes clearly
stated "subscription required." Your statement that a piece of hardware
won't work w/o a subscription because a box says "subscription required" is
can't always be true because I have hardware that does work w/o a sub.

Since it's not always true, people have a valid reason to question it.

 

[Jason]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 19:51:48 -0400, Randy S. wrote:

>- Both Tivo and the cell phone company require you to purchase
>compatible hardware up front.
>
>- Both require monthly service fees to be functional *at* all.
>
>Damn, even better than I thought at first.
>
>Randy S.

A cell is required by federal law to be able to make selected
outgoing calls when it is not attached to a specific service
plan. Current multiband phones have several methods of making
themselves heard.

Cell companies are required by federal law to accept selected
call signals whether or not the phone in question is a member of
that companies network. And because cell towers have capabilities
of receiving nearly all possible cell signals (ever heard of
'Roaming' minutes?) a question of compatible hardware is not
valid.

In some instances, the cell towers themselves are programmed to
give certain calls absolute highest priority when select calls
are trying to be connected, even so far as re-allocating
resources from other calls that are already in progress.

Find another analogy, this one's a poor fit. And try to dodge
that boot that's heading for your ass, it might be a better fit
than Zardoz thought at first.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

> Find another analogy, this one's a poor fit. And try to dodge
> that boot that's heading for your ass, it might be a better fit
> than Zardoz thought at first.

Well, thank you for at least contributing some thought to the thread
rather than simply spouting insults.

I grant you that the cell phone analogy fails in the aspect that some
minimum service functionality for *emergency* communication only is
federally mandated. There really is no parallel to that aspect to the
Tivo DVR as it is not considered an essential service. That really
shouldn't be counted against Tivo, but I grant that it's a weakness of
the comparison. However, discounting that one aspect, it's still a
pretty good fit. Similar models that are not essential services may be
closer, and SINNER identified a few.

My main beef was that attacking the analogy for no stated reason is just
being obnoxious. OTOH, considered rebuttal is welcome.

Randy S.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Zardoz" <dawiz@oz.com> wrote in message
news:1118096302.45486ad392c429071c67eab6f378c67f@teranews...
>
> Could you think of an analogy that's any worse?

I could think of a lot of worse ones, sure.

> My boot wasn't designed to fit up your ass, but I can make it fit in one
> swift move.

Ooh, an Internet tough guy. *Now* I'm impressed.

Ed
84HurstOlds@nowherenow.com

 

[sinner]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

* Wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

> On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 19:51:48 -0400, Randy S. wrote:
>
>>- Both Tivo and the cell phone company require you to purchase
>>compatible hardware up front.
>>
>>- Both require monthly service fees to be functional *at* all.
>>
>>Damn, even better than I thought at first.
>>
>
> A cell is required by federal law to be able to make selected
> outgoing calls when it is not attached to a specific service
> plan. Current multiband phones have several methods of making
> themselves heard.
>
> Cell companies are required by federal law to accept selected
> call signals whether or not the phone in question is a member of
> that companies network.

Not if you arent paying for ANY service on your phone they dont. You
think you can go pull an old cell phone out of the drawer, charge it,
turn it on and make a call to anyone other than 911 without paying
anyone? If it DOES work you will be asked for a credit card, so you
are STILL paying for service.

> And because cell towers have capabilities
> of receiving nearly all possible cell signals (ever heard of
> 'Roaming' minutes?) a question of compatible hardware is not
> valid.

I believe 911 is the ONLY requirement. If you are comparing that to
the limited service of a series 1 tivo without a sub you should seek
help.

>
> In some instances, the cell towers themselves are programmed to
> give certain calls absolute highest priority when select calls
> are trying to be connected, even so far as re-allocating
> resources from other calls that are already in progress.
>
> Find another analogy, this one's a poor fit. And try to dodge
> that boot that's heading for your ass, it might be a better fit
> than Zardoz thought at first.
>

XM Sat / Sirius Sat radio. If you people really need someone to point
you to the obvious fact that this business model has been around for
years and has been successful you have other much more important
issues to address.

How about a Pager? No service and its a brick. OnStar in your new GM,
no sub = Useless.

If you dont like they (Tivo) do business, dont do business with them,
isn't choice great?

--
David

 

[Sean]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:46:40 -0400, Special <spec@spec.org> wrote:

>...Is that the box is apparently useless if you don't pay.
>
>I bought one for my father a couple of years ago. Being a stuborn old
>man resistant to change, he refused to use it. He still uses VCRs.
>
>Now that the cable company supplies an HD DVR for about ten bucks per
>month I took the Tivo out. It's a shame that I can't program it to
>record shows by date/time like a VCR. I would never buy another Tivo
>product because of this built in uselessness of the hardware.
>
>I'm surprised that nobody has totally reprogrammed this box to simply
>record like a VCR without the Tivo service. I don't mean a Tivo
>software hack. I mean wipe out the HD and put a totally new OS on it
>that has a simple VCR like menu system. I would gladly pay $30 or $40
>for such software.

Tivo is pretty much useless period.

Good move getting the cable DVR.

Sean

 

[Gman]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <nfcua1hv9c0h5ctsmnk1rso1nlt8ori4og@4ax.com>, Sean <none> wrote:
>On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:46:40 -0400, Special <spec@spec.org> wrote:
>
>>...Is that the box is apparently useless if you don't pay.
>>
>>I bought one for my father a couple of years ago. Being a stuborn old
>>man resistant to change, he refused to use it. He still uses VCRs.
>>
>>Now that the cable company supplies an HD DVR for about ten bucks per
>>month I took the Tivo out. It's a shame that I can't program it to
>>record shows by date/time like a VCR. I would never buy another Tivo
>>product because of this built in uselessness of the hardware.
>>
>>I'm surprised that nobody has totally reprogrammed this box to simply
>>record like a VCR without the Tivo service. I don't mean a Tivo
>>software hack. I mean wipe out the HD and put a totally new OS on it
>>that has a simple VCR like menu system. I would gladly pay $30 or $40
>>for such software.
>
>Tivo is pretty much useless period.
>
>Good move getting the cable DVR.
>
>Sean
Soon your precious Cockcast DVR will have Tivo software on it.

 

[Sean]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 21:57:31 GMT, glenzabr@xmission.com (GMAN) wrote:

>In article <nfcua1hv9c0h5ctsmnk1rso1nlt8ori4og@4ax.com>, Sean <none> wrote:
>>On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:46:40 -0400, Special <spec@spec.org> wrote:
>>
>>>...Is that the box is apparently useless if you don't pay.
>>>
>>>I bought one for my father a couple of years ago. Being a stuborn old
>>>man resistant to change, he refused to use it. He still uses VCRs.
>>>
>>>Now that the cable company supplies an HD DVR for about ten bucks per
>>>month I took the Tivo out. It's a shame that I can't program it to
>>>record shows by date/time like a VCR. I would never buy another Tivo
>>>product because of this built in uselessness of the hardware.
>>>
>>>I'm surprised that nobody has totally reprogrammed this box to simply
>>>record like a VCR without the Tivo service. I don't mean a Tivo
>>>software hack. I mean wipe out the HD and put a totally new OS on it
>>>that has a simple VCR like menu system. I would gladly pay $30 or $40
>>>for such software.
>>
>>Tivo is pretty much useless period.
>>
>>Good move getting the cable DVR.
>>
>>Sean
>Soon your precious Cockcast DVR will have Tivo software on it.


No it won't. Unless I decide to pay extra for it.

The existing DVR's will still be offered.

Sean