Verizon: We'll Push Windows Phone Like We Push Android

[killerclick]

[citation][nom]NewbieTechGodII[/nom]@'killerclicke'You have a lot of useless message ratings...your posts must suck, therefore you suck. Go away.[/citation]

Yeah, that's why Windows Phone reviews mean very little. Meanwhile, in reality, 98.5% agree with me.

 

[bystander]

[citation][nom]killerclick[/nom]Yeah, that's why Windows Phone reviews mean very little. Meanwhile, in reality, 98.5% agree with me.[/citation]
Given how well the new Lumia's are doing in the US, it won't be long before you'll have to change your view.

 

[killerclick]

[citation][nom]bystander[/nom]Given how well the new Lumia's are doing in the US, it won't be long before you'll have to change your view.[/citation]

That's Nokia's phone, right?

 

[bystander]

[citation][nom]killerclick[/nom]That's Nokia's phone, right?[/citation]
Yes.

 

[CaedenV]

[citation][nom]killerclick[/nom]And every guy that likes to get his balls stomped on by a dominatrix says it's the best feeling ever. There's only one thing Microsoft needs to know about the Metro-skinned Windows Phone 7... after 18 months it barely has 1.5% usage share. It couldn't have failed harder. So a few people that have Windows phones say they are great, which makes sense, otherwise why buy them?The market has spoken and Microsoft needs to let go of its ridiculous dream of doing on the mobile what it had done on the desktop. They fixation is hurting the future of desktop Windows and it's hurting Microsoft.[/citation]
1.5% is due to a few very reasonable explanations:
1) wp7 was a first gen smartphone OS... would you buy a 1st gen android phone today? of course not, it lacks the development and feature sets of it's competition. 7.5 brought the OS up to speed with modern features, and I think wp8 will finally bring some innovation to the market instead of just playing catchup. But just having a 2nd revion name of wp8 will help sales because it will not be viewed as 'beta' software.
2) Price per specs vs price per experience. If someone is comparing 2 phones of the same price, and one has a duel core 1.4GHz cpu and 1GB of ram, while the other has a single 1GHz CPU with 512MB of ram which would they buy? Sure the wp7 phone acts just as fast, but with the specs so far lower it is a hard justification for people. Also, with the cheaper hardware set the phones should cost less, but they are saying that the experience is the same so the price should be the same, and that is not an easy sell in a hardware conscious market.
3) wp7 sold better than iPhone or Android's first gen phones when comparing unit sales instead of percentages, but when the competition has a 5 year head start then it takes a little while to make a dent in the market percentages.
4) wp8 is right around the corner. So do you buy a smartphone today? or wait ~3-4months for something much better?
5) It has taken business a while to vet wp7, and they are just now beginning to use them. With the network improvements with wp8 I think most business phones will move over to the windows side
6) The first 'good' fully featured wp7 phones were just released in the last month, without a flagship to follow (like the iPhone for iOS, or Droid for android) then the whole market line suffers. Now with the high end Nokia phones there is something to own with pride, and with that will follow the masses on the cheaper phones because if they cannot afford the hardware they at least want the software that is on the high end phone.
7) It takes a little bit for the market to develop and get some good (lol, or at least popular) apps, and I think the wp market is finally reaching that point (God I hope wp8 x86 will support real desktop applications! *crosses fingers*)
8) While carriers have supplied wp7 phones they have always pushed apple and android phones while downplaying wp7. It does not matter what the corporate stance is if the individual employees are pushing only specific products. Now employees are beginning to push wp7, so there will be a big uptick in sales.

Personally I think we will see iPhone continuing to sell well as it has a firm market base, and really has a solid product at the moment (though it does not fit my tastes). Android will begin to fall to wp7/8 and win8 tablets, but retain the 'geek phone' modder market. wp8 will become the defacto phone for business use, power users (though not modders), and could sweep the value market if more devices like the 710 become available from other manufacturers. The mass market will stay on android for another generation or two because it is what they are use to, but will switch as more interoperability with their PCs becomes available/desirable.

 

[CaedenV]

[citation][nom]killerclick[/nom]Windows 8 on the desktop is a mobile OS because you can't turn off the mobile UI. You can temporarily go to a deliberately crippled desktop mode, but it's clear that Microsoft wants to push it to legacy-land, and yesterday. Then they want users to buy "apps" from the Windows store, where MS gets to decide what apps are allowed to be sold, and get a 30% cut. Then they want to make users use one app at a time full-screen (or split it 80-20 and no other way), and they optimized the whole UI for touch, which for usage of more than a few minutes only makes sense on handheld devices.How is that not a mobile OS? It has desktop functionality, but only because Microsoft couldn't get away with disabling desktop completely, which it will probably do in Windows 9 if Windows 8 and Metro catch on.[/citation]
I used DP8 and CP8 on both my desktop and touch screen netbook and do you know how much I saw of the metro start screen? ~3sec after booting up to enter my password and hit the desktop button, and about as long as it took to hit the win key and type in the name of a program to launch. Seriously, if you do not like the metro start menu interface and applications it is extremely easy to avoid, and there is nothing 'disabled' about the win8 desktop, in fact it has a lot of great new features that are attractive to me (specifically the new task manager, and that the interface is even easier to get out of the way than win7).
Also, the charms menu (which is also part of metro) is everything the start menu ever should have been, and the start button should directly open that instead of the start screen. less buttons/clicks to get to settings and sleep/switch user is always better. I am not 100% sold on win8 for the desktop, but it is now very likely that I will buy it for the netbook. I recently switched back to win7 for both machines, and while I liked win8 better than 7 on the desktop there was no real feature that makes me want or 'need' to go back. On the netbook however I immediately missed the better touch functionality and will reload CP8 on it as soon as I get some time, and will keep it there until I purchase the final release.

 

[wildkitten]

[citation][nom]bystander[/nom]I read your previous post after I asked exactly what you needed running in the background, and you when on a rant about how you just don't like them loading programs and gave no instances of how it affected you. Thanks for answering me.That said, I have no idea about Go launcher. I also suspect there is an easy solution for you somewhere. I'd advise looking for a solution.Personally, I have a rooted phone, because stock, the battery life on this phone is unexceptable, but it is up to 2 days worth of battery life with a good ROM and utility setup.[/citation]
I have looked for a solution. I am a regular on the Phandroid forums. You know what every single long time user of Android phones say? That the first thing that gets closed down by Android when it needs to free RAM is a replacement launcher. That means nothing unusual is going on. That means its a bad design.

The thing is, I hate this condescending attitude of Android users like yourself (not every Android user overall) that someone has to "ignore the precaching, it won't affect you", but when shown that guess what, it does in fact affect someone, go look for a solution.

You have a rooted phone. Gratz, good for you. If Android phones to work properly need to be rooted and have app freezing programs and all this then that needs to be told to the average consumer during marketing that Android phones are for advanced users only.

The fact that people have created apps to freeze other apps means that I am not the only one in the Android community who feels this is a problem.

I also notice you don't even talk about why apps don't need to have an Exit button. Explain why it's so important that the user not have basic control over apps opening. I really do want to know.

It's this issue that has me really looking into a Windows phone.

 

[wildkitten]

[citation][nom]killerclick[/nom]Yeah, that's why Windows Phone reviews mean very little. Meanwhile, in reality, 98.5% agree with me.[/citation]
I am in that 98.5% because I have never owned a Windows phone. I am a former iPhone and current Android user.

Blanket statements by you are easily proven wrong.

 

[bystander]

[citation][nom]wildkitten[/nom]I have looked for a solution. I am a regular on the Phandroid forums. You know what every single long time user of Android phones say? That the first thing that gets closed down by Android when it needs to free RAM is a replacement launcher. That means nothing unusual is going on. That means its a bad design.The thing is, I hate this condescending attitude of Android users like yourself (not every Android user overall) that someone has to "ignore the precaching, it won't affect you", but when shown that guess what, it does in fact affect someone, go look for a solution.You have a rooted phone. Gratz, good for you. If Android phones to work properly need to be rooted and have app freezing programs and all this then that needs to be told to the average consumer during marketing that Android phones are for advanced users only.The fact that people have created apps to freeze other apps means that I am not the only one in the Android community who feels this is a problem.I also notice you don't even talk about why apps don't need to have an Exit button. Explain why it's so important that the user not have basic control over apps opening. I really do want to know.It's this issue that has me really looking into a Windows phone.[/citation]

I personally have never seen a program I wanted to run, shut down. I've never had this issue of yours and know no one else with it, but obviously those using this program are having issues. I also was reading that the launcher has a memory leak, which probably pushes it out quicker as a result.

Have you tried another launcher? That wasn't the only one there is.

 

[back_by_demand]

[citation][nom]killerclick[/nom]Yeah, that's why Windows Phone reviews mean very little. Meanwhile, in reality, 98.5% agree with me.[/citation]
Simple question, have you ever used a Windows Phone, perhaps had a friend let you play with it for a while? Forget sales figures or marketing or other non-relevant stuff, what do you personally think of WP7 having actually used it for yourself?

 

[Kami3k]

[citation][nom]wildkitten[/nom]Exactly, your ROOTED phone.I'm really getting tired of this condescending attitude so many in the Android community have..."Oh do something that was once illegal and may be again and that will void your warranty and will cost you any customer support and will take you off the upgrade path and may possibly brick your phone so you can do what you want".Bloatware should not exist. It shouldn't require rooting to get rid of them. If they want to preload this apps fine, but let customers uninstall them normally.I also shouldn't have to root my phone to get more control over it. For a long time I have heard users tout Linux because it supposedly gives the user more control over their computers than Windows yet somehow Linux (Android) not giving you control over your phone and trying to think for you is a good thing.[/citation]

1. You don't have to root a phone to gain full access to it. buy it retail, not with a contract. Same with the bloatware problem. It's not the phone's fault, it's the carrier's fault. I don't same all windows PCs are slow as hell just because non-custom ones are filled with bloatware and adware.

2. Void my warranty you say? Restore original ROM I say. And if I can't, then the phone's hardware is kaput and they won't find out anyway.

3. You're obviously a Android hater for the reasons I already listed. Every problem you listed is not the fault of the phone or even the OS (Android).

 

[killerclick]

[citation][nom]back_by_demand[/nom]Simple question, have you ever used a Windows Phone, perhaps had a friend let you play with it for a while? Forget sales figures or marketing or other non-relevant stuff, what do you personally think of WP7 having actually used it for yourself?[/citation]

I tried it in stores several times (maybe 20 min total, most recently Lumia 710) and I chose Android again in the end. WP7 is ok, but nowhere near Android or iOS in capabilities or choice of software.

What I find very troubling about Microsoft's mobile strategy is their obsession with infesting my PC with their phone UI despite all evidence that it's been rejected by the market. What I see them saying is you're going to use this shit whether you like it or not and it's clear that most people who had the chance to try it do not like it (which is why they didn't buy it). If that weren't the case, I wouldn't comment on or care about how bad Windows is failing in the mobile.

 

[bystander]

[citation][nom]killerclick[/nom]I tried it in stores several times (maybe 20 min total, most recently Lumia 710) and I chose Android again in the end. WP7 is ok, but nowhere near Android or iOS in capabilities or choice of software.What I find very troubling about Microsoft's mobile strategy is their obsession with infesting my PC with their phone UI despite all evidence that it's been rejected by the market. What I see them saying is you're going to use this shit whether you like it or not and it's clear that most people who had the chance to try it do not like it (which is why they didn't buy it). If that weren't the case, I wouldn't comment on or care about how bad Windows is failing in the mobile.[/citation]
As someone mentioned earlier, you get to choose to turn it off on install, as probably even after install if you didn't like it. If you don't like Metro, you don't have to use it on the desktop.

 

[killerclick]

[citation][nom]CaedenV[/nom]1.5% is due to a few very reasonable explanations:[/citation]

Yeah, I'm sure other failures have their own explanations, I'm not going to go over that.

What I find puzzling is confidence in Microsoft that they can make it in the mobile market. They're not smarter than Google or Apple. Their track record is mixed at best, Windows Mobile, Zune, Tablet PC, Vista, and even Xbox 360 was being beaten 2:1 in sales by the lowly Wii for a long time.

It's not just a question of making an effort or pouring resources into R&D. They might make it, they might not, but there is no reason to believe they'll do better than with their previous consumer devices or that they'll be able to beat established players.

 

[JOSHSKORN]

So if I read this right, they'll wait for AT&T to release the superior Windows Phone device and then have it ported to Verizon at least 6 months later?

 

[killerclick]

[citation][nom]bystander[/nom]As someone mentioned earlier, you get to choose to turn it off on install, as probably even after install if you didn't like it. If you don't like Metro, you don't have to use it on the desktop.[/citation]

Seriously, you think you can choose to turn off Metro on install or not use it on the desktop? Did you even use the DP or CP? You can't turn off Metro (not even with registry hacks as of the Consumer Preview), and they've done that deliberately because they want to move Windows users from the desktop entirely.

 

[bystander]

[citation][nom]killerclick[/nom]Seriously, you think you can choose to turn off Metro on install or not use it on the desktop? Did you even use the DP or CP? You can't turn off Metro (not even with registry hacks as of the Consumer Preview), and they've done that deliberately because they want to move Windows users from the desktop entirely.[/citation]
They've been advertising it, and can be attested by CaedenV. Perhaps you should have done a little research on the subject when you had it installed.

 

[bystander]

It is likely that it was made more difficult to turn off in the preview, as they wanted people to try it. The retail version should make it easier.

For now: http/www.addictivetips.com/windows-tips/windows-8-start-menu-toggle-enable-disable-metro-ui-start-screen/

 

[pedro_mann]

[citation][nom]headscratcher[/nom]C) if they do it right, they can have Blackberry-like integration with business servers and software.[/citation]

Except the problem being is that it integrates with Win 8. Which corporations will hate. They will be on Win 7 until MS changes their mind on this new metro junk.

 

[killerclick]

[citation][nom]bystander[/nom]It is likely that it was made more difficult to turn off in the preview, as they wanted people to try it. The retail version should make it easier.For now: http/www.addictivetips.com/windo [...] rt-screen/[/citation]

Are you serious? This is a registry hack that worked in the Developer Preview but doesn't work in the Consumer Preview because Microsoft is dead-set on requiring users use Metro, at least for logging in, searching and opening apps.

There will not be an option to turn off Metro in Windows 8. They even took the trouble to make sure a registry hack will not work either. I'm sure workarounds will be found eventually, but I'm also sure those will not in any way be supported (or made easy) by Microsoft.