Which Guitar Recording Amp?

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In article <xp6dnbTiqf1EyHjfRVn-2g@comcast.com> wheatonjohn@comcast.net writes:

> Your recommendation for a Deluxe Reverb for tone is accurate, but you are
> way off what they are now running on the used market. A BF Deluxe Reverb in
> good shape is going to run you $2,000 to $3,000 depending on where you are,
> and what the condition is of the amp. A Silver Face can still be
> occasionally had for under $1,000, but that is even rare these days.

Looks like someone who isn't a connoisseuer should be thinking about a
new Blues Jr. for about $400. How much better is $2,600 better?



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
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Michael <mustang3@mediaone.net> wrote:

> I'm looking for a guitar amp that's good for recording mostly a Fender
> Strat Plus with Lace Sensors and a Gibson Les Paul with PAF's. Music
> style is mostly pop-rock, rock, and blues. Good clean tone is more
> preferable than good distortion since I can get good distortion with
> pedals. Although, good of both is ideal. My budget is up to $600.
> I'm considering ADA Rocket A20R (a rare amp--I have a chance to snag
> one), Peavey Classic 30, Fender Pro Jr., and Fender Blues Jr. Which
> one do you recommend? I heard the ADA is very good. Is it way better
> than the others mentioned? Any others worth considering?

I can't know your tastes or your guitar sound, but my vote would be for
none of the above. If you're stuck at $600, the Fender '65 Deluxe
Reverb reissue is probably the best you'll find in a new amp.
Definitely nothing to complain about.

But if you're looking for a good clean sound, I personally would be
looking for a bigger amp. A Fender Twin Reverb (also the '65 reissue)
would be a fantastic choice, but there are other "100W" tube amps out
there to choose from. I have struggled for years to get a full, rich
clean sound with enough sustain out of even the 50W amps I've been
using (Bassman, Ampeg V2, many others). By the time you get it loud
enough to get the speaker and the strings playing nicely together, you
always end up with some fuzz. It can sound great, but when you want
that rich clean sound it just isn't happening. With the Twin, or a
good old 100W Marshall, or an Ampeg V4 (among others) you can get the
volume you need to move air across the strings before you get into the
overdrive.

If you think I'm weird, take a look at all the pedal steel players in
Nashville who use 400W amps on stage so they can get the clean sustain
they need to sound like a Nashville pedal steel player. Same holds
true for Strats strumming chords. Even when you're in the studio, you
still need to move air. It's part of the instrument we call Electric
Guitar.

The guy who says you don't need an amp just doesn't understand that the
amp is part of the instrument. Not only does this instrument require
an amplifier, it requires a speaker, a room, walls, a floor, and air.

ulysses

 

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On 7/25/05 8:50 PM, in article znr1122329834k@trad, "Mike Rivers"
<mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote:

>
> In article <xp6dnbTiqf1EyHjfRVn-2g@comcast.com> wheatonjohn@comcast.net
> writes:
>
>> Your recommendation for a Deluxe Reverb for tone is accurate, but you are
>> way off what they are now running on the used market. A BF Deluxe Reverb in
>> good shape is going to run you $2,000 to $3,000 depending on where you are,
>> and what the condition is of the amp. A Silver Face can still be
>> occasionally had for under $1,000, but that is even rare these days.
>
> Looks like someone who isn't a connoisseuer should be thinking about a
> new Blues Jr. for about $400. How much better is $2,600 better?


Here here... A new BJ (or a cheap old one with the easy fix mods for the
solder-savy) with a better speaker than stock is a truly nice versatile
thing.

 

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In article <1122364652.afafe0df7d8aee7e55f838638b4fcaa9@teranews> ulyssesnospam@rollmusic.com writes:

> If you think I'm weird, take a look at all the pedal steel players in
> Nashville who use 400W amps on stage so they can get the clean sustain
> they need to sound like a Nashville pedal steel player.

They use the Peavey Session 400 because it's become a cult item among
steel players. It's not because it's 400 watts (is it?) but it does
have the sound that goes well with the steel guitar. These guys never
want an overdriven sound, or when they do, they get it with an effect
device and not by turning up the input gain on the amplifier. And
while I've heard some steel players that are indeed too loud, they
aren't loud in the way, say, Lennie Kravitz is - where loud is an
integral part of the performance.

> The guy who says you don't need an amp just doesn't understand that the
> amp is part of the instrument. Not only does this instrument require
> an amplifier, it requires a speaker, a room, walls, a floor, and air.

Yup. And sometimes they don't have the proper instrument for the music
they're playing or the venue they're playng in. Just like bagpipe
players.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

 

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Mike Rivers <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote:

> In article <1122364652.afafe0df7d8aee7e55f838638b4fcaa9@teranews> ulyssesnospam@rollmusic.com writes:

>> If you think I'm weird, take a look at all the pedal steel players in
>> Nashville who use 400W amps on stage so they can get the clean sustain
>> they need to sound like a Nashville pedal steel player.

> They use the Peavey Session 400 because it's become a cult item among
> steel players. It's not because it's 400 watts (is it?) but it does
> have the sound that goes well with the steel guitar. These guys never
> want an overdriven sound, or when they do, they get it with an effect
> device and not by turning up the input gain on the amplifier. And
> while I've heard some steel players that are indeed too loud, they
> aren't loud in the way, say, Lennie Kravitz is - where loud is an
> integral part of the performance.

Is that the same as the Peavey Nashville 400? Because that one is a solid
state amp that pedal steel players apparently love to use.

Rob R.

 

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In article <dc5ibs$bk1$1@news1.chem.utoronto.ca> reedijk@hera.med.utoronto.ca writes:

> > They use the Peavey Session 400 because it's become a cult item among
> > steel players. It's not because it's 400 watts (is it?)

> Is that the same as the Peavey Nashville 400? Because that one is a solid
> state amp that pedal steel players apparently love to use.

The Session 400, and the follow-on Session 500 were also solid state
amplifiers. Nominally 200 watts, according to the info on the Peavey
web site. The Nashville series has a different tone control
arrangement and a built-in compressor. I expect that basically they
sound about the same other than differences in speakers (which
admittedly can make a very big difference). There are a number of
speaker options, both size and manufacturer.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

 

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On 7/26/05 10:46 AM, in article dc5ibs$bk1$1@news1.chem.utoronto.ca, "Rob
Reedijk" <reedijk@hera.med.utoronto.ca> wrote:

> Mike Rivers <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <1122364652.afafe0df7d8aee7e55f838638b4fcaa9@teranews>
>> ulyssesnospam@rollmusic.com writes:
>
>>> If you think I'm weird, take a look at all the pedal steel players in
>>> Nashville who use 400W amps on stage so they can get the clean sustain
>>> they need to sound like a Nashville pedal steel player.
>
>> They use the Peavey Session 400 because it's become a cult item among
>> steel players. It's not because it's 400 watts (is it?) but it does
>> have the sound that goes well with the steel guitar. These guys never
>> want an overdriven sound, or when they do, they get it with an effect
>> device and not by turning up the input gain on the amplifier. And
>> while I've heard some steel players that are indeed too loud, they
>> aren't loud in the way, say, Lennie Kravitz is - where loud is an
>> integral part of the performance.
>
> Is that the same as the Peavey Nashville 400? Because that one is a solid
> state amp that pedal steel players apparently love to use.
>
> Rob R.

Peavey indeed nailed a reliable and rich sounding solid state amp with the
Session 400, ... the current holy grail steel amp is the several flavors of
a TWIN feeding a single open-back JBL 15. This gets accomplished any way one
can, whether it's buying a ProSonic or finding a rare SuperSix Reverb to mod
or finding any flavor of Twin and replacing the baffleboard appropriately
and finding a speaker that suits (in this use a 4ohm Weber California 15 is
a FRIGHTENINGLY sweet sounding beast). Like ANY instrument, and especially
guitars, that have LIVED for the last 20 years progressively on a
sales-driven GEAR=TONE mandate that ignores the real truth that
PLAYER=TONE... This is all about PLAYER DETAIL COMFORT and that top 5% that
only dogs can hear that makes the custom driver's seat and controls and is
totally PERSONAL... I;ve worked with steel players from young to old,
newbies to Holl O Famers, rockers to Hawaiian to lapsteelers and it does not
MATTER what they have as a front end... whether it's a digital preamp thru
solid state hifi power amp like Jeff Neuman, or semi-retired Nashville
stalwarts with a pair of 100w EVANS combo amps or a old-timer like Leonard T
Zinn (bless his heart) who will plug into ANYTHING... they All still sound
Just Like Themselves barring real malfunctions.

 

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Mike Rivers wrote:

> They use the Peavey Session 400 because it's become a cult item among
> steel players. It's not because it's 400 watts (is it?) but it does
> have the sound that goes well with the steel guitar. These guys never
> want an overdriven sound, or when they do, they get it with an effect
> device and not by turning up the input gain on the amplifier. And
> while I've heard some steel players that are indeed too loud, they
> aren't loud in the way, say, Lennie Kravitz is - where loud is an
> integral part of the performance.

It's 400 Peavey watts.
Which is either 400 watts AC input,
or 400 watts peak,
or 400 watts into 2 ohms.
I think the AC mains voltage runs high in Meridian, MS.

rd

 

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hey they have some MP3s of this amp on thier site.
it does sound bitchin'.
http/www.drzamps.com/ghia.html

one thing to consider is that guy playing is really good. a lot of a
persons tone can come from thier playing, how they pick, where they
pick..

anyway, i'd like to see what it sounds like with my hands and guitar.

thanks, dude. good tip.

 

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"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1122377116k@trad...
>
> And sometimes they don't have the proper instrument for the music
> they're playing or the venue they're playng in. Just like bagpipe
> players.
>

Not many promoters want to put on shows atop big hills.

jb

 

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I agree with a lot of people here that smaller amps are great for
recording. A 1x8 Fender Champ, 3-4 watts, is an awesome amp, either
tweed or black/silverfaced. Don't be afraid of Fender's silverfaced
amps, many of them are exactly the same as their blackfaced
counterparts. If not, they can be blackfaced. Look for a 68-71
Princeton Reverb amp maybe. It is much more versatile than a Champ, and
it's 10" speaker is nicer (IMO) than the Champ's 8" speaker. It sounds
every bit as good as an original black faced Deluxe Reverb (again, IMO)
and is in your price range. $600 will get a Princeton Reverb of that
era, and I'd say a lot of engineers would love the sound. After 1971
Fender started using plywood for their cabinets instead of pine and you
can hear the difference. Pine cabinets seem to breathe easier.

Saying that, I am partial to tweed Fender amps of the late '50s. I have
'59 Bassman, Deluxe, and Champ replicas from Clark Amplification, and
I'm happy. You should hear them with an M-149 in front of them. I love
that sound! A tweed Deluxe is really only about 8-10 watts, very
versatile, and much more harmonically rich and full sounding than a
blackface Deluxe Reverb. In your price range you can buy a 5E3 Deluxe
kit from places like Marsh Amps or WeberVST and put it together
yourself if you're electronically inclined.

Mike Clark of Clark Amplification has a model called the "Lil' Bit
Ltd." that is a tweed Deluxe amp into a tweed Champ power section, so
you get the versatility and sound of the Deluxe, but at only 4 watts!
It's $1300 USD, but you can order chassis only and plug it into an
existing speaker cabinet of yours and you'd still be in your price
range. I have one on order, and I like that he wires in a second power
tube socket, so you can always put in a second 6V6 power tube and
double the power by running them parallel in class A. That's more than
plenty of power for gigging.

Then again, the SFPR I mentioned above is easy to find on eBay, and
rocks. If it sounds good to you, that's all that matters.

I think you have a lot of thinking to do!

Gord

 

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basa@rogers.com wrote:
> I agree with a lot of people here that smaller amps are great for
> recording. A 1x8 Fender Champ, 3-4 watts, is an awesome amp, either
> tweed or black/silverfaced. Don't be afraid of Fender's silverfaced
> amps, many of them are exactly the same as their blackfaced
> counterparts. If not, they can be blackfaced. Look for a 68-71
> Princeton Reverb amp maybe. It is much more versatile than a Champ, and
> it's 10" speaker is nicer (IMO) than the Champ's 8" speaker. It sounds
> every bit as good as an original black faced Deluxe Reverb (again, IMO)
> and is in your price range. $600 will get a Princeton Reverb of that
> era, and I'd say a lot of engineers would love the sound. After 1971
> Fender started using plywood for their cabinets instead of pine and you
> can hear the difference. Pine cabinets seem to breathe easier.

> Saying that, I am partial to tweed Fender amps of the late '50s. I have
> '59 Bassman, Deluxe, and Champ replicas from Clark Amplification, and
> I'm happy. You should hear them with an M-149 in front of them. I love
> that sound! A tweed Deluxe is really only about 8-10 watts, very
> versatile, and much more harmonically rich and full sounding than a
> blackface Deluxe Reverb. In your price range you can buy a 5E3 Deluxe
> kit from places like Marsh Amps or WeberVST and put it together
> yourself if you're electronically inclined.

> Mike Clark of Clark Amplification has a model called the "Lil' Bit
> Ltd." that is a tweed Deluxe amp into a tweed Champ power section, so
> you get the versatility and sound of the Deluxe, but at only 4 watts!
> It's $1300 USD, but you can order chassis only and plug it into an
> existing speaker cabinet of yours and you'd still be in your price
> range. I have one on order, and I like that he wires in a second power
> tube socket, so you can always put in a second 6V6 power tube and
> double the power by running them parallel in class A. That's more than
> plenty of power for gigging.

> Then again, the SFPR I mentioned above is easy to find on eBay, and
> rocks. If it sounds good to you, that's all that matters.

Agreed on the SFPRs. In fact, the one I have is late in the line,
around '78 and it still is a great little amp---plywood cabinet
and all. So I magine those earlier ones might be even nicer!
I have few nice amps, but for several years, this little amp has been
my favourite. Not as versatile as the Champ12 I mentioned before,
but it has the sweet singing tone.

Rob R.

 

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"the fender blues deluxe and blues junior are are nice little amps and
are more versatile than a princeton."

Out of a Princeton Reverb, I can get sounds I love, clean, dirty, &
anywhere in between. I've tried a Blues Deluxe and Blues junior and
can't get a single sound out of it I like. That makes the Princeton
Reverb more versatile to me. You obviously disagree. I think it's up to
the original poster to decide what's more versatile for him.

Some Fender Champs have nothing on them other than a volume knob, yet
they keep coming up as favorite recording amps. I'd say that they're
versatile just for the fact that they sound great in the hands of so
many people, on so many different sounding recordings. They're capable
of so much, and don't even have tone controls.

I think it's a misconception that amps with channel switching and
master volumes are more versatile than vintage non-master volume amps.
I would think just the opposite. I don't like the sound of Swiss Army
knife amps.

I'm just bringing up this point so that the original poster isn't lead
into believing any sweeping generalizations, rather, he should decide
for himself.

Gord

 

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the fender blues deluxe and blues junior are are nice little amps and are
more versatile than a princeton.
--Lou Gimenez
The Music Lab
2" 24track w all the Goodies
www.musiclabnyc.com



> From: Rob Reedijk <reedijk@hera.med.utoronto.ca>
> Organization: Dept. of Chemistry, University of Toronto
> Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 17:07:31 +0000 (UTC)
> Subject: Re: Which Guitar Recording Amp?
>
> basa@rogers.com wrote:
>> I agree with a lot of people here that smaller amps are great for
>> recording. A 1x8 Fender Champ, 3-4 watts, is an awesome amp, either
>> tweed or black/silverfaced. Don't be afraid of Fender's silverfaced
>> amps, many of them are exactly the same as their blackfaced
>> counterparts. If not, they can be blackfaced. Look for a 68-71
>> Princeton Reverb amp maybe. It is much more versatile than a Champ, and
>> it's 10" speaker is nicer (IMO) than the Champ's 8" speaker. It sounds
>> every bit as good as an original black faced Deluxe Reverb (again, IMO)
>> and is in your price range. $600 will get a Princeton Reverb of that
>> era, and I'd say a lot of engineers would love the sound. After 1971
>> Fender started using plywood for their cabinets instead of pine and you
>> can hear the difference. Pine cabinets seem to breathe easier.
>
>> Saying that, I am partial to tweed Fender amps of the late '50s. I have
>> '59 Bassman, Deluxe, and Champ replicas from Clark Amplification, and
>> I'm happy. You should hear them with an M-149 in front of them. I love
>> that sound! A tweed Deluxe is really only about 8-10 watts, very
>> versatile, and much more harmonically rich and full sounding than a
>> blackface Deluxe Reverb. In your price range you can buy a 5E3 Deluxe
>> kit from places like Marsh Amps or WeberVST and put it together
>> yourself if you're electronically inclined.
>
>> Mike Clark of Clark Amplification has a model called the "Lil' Bit
>> Ltd." that is a tweed Deluxe amp into a tweed Champ power section, so
>> you get the versatility and sound of the Deluxe, but at only 4 watts!
>> It's $1300 USD, but you can order chassis only and plug it into an
>> existing speaker cabinet of yours and you'd still be in your price
>> range. I have one on order, and I like that he wires in a second power
>> tube socket, so you can always put in a second 6V6 power tube and
>> double the power by running them parallel in class A. That's more than
>> plenty of power for gigging.
>
>> Then again, the SFPR I mentioned above is easy to find on eBay, and
>> rocks. If it sounds good to you, that's all that matters.
>
> Agreed on the SFPRs. In fact, the one I have is late in the line,
> around '78 and it still is a great little amp---plywood cabinet
> and all. So I magine those earlier ones might be even nicer!
> I have few nice amps, but for several years, this little amp has been
> my favourite. Not as versatile as the Champ12 I mentioned before,
> but it has the sweet singing tone.
>
> Rob R.

 

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Lou Gimenez <themusiclab@optonline.net> wrote:
> the fender blues deluxe and blues junior are are nice little amps and are
> more versatile than a princeton.
> --Lou Gimenez

I wouldn't describe a blues deluxe as a nice little amp. It's pretty
powerful---a true 40 watts. And it has way more punch than say a
50 watt plexi. All out of a single 12" speaker, too.

Medium-sized, maybe.

Rob R.

 

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"Rob Reedijk" <reedijk@hera.med.utoronto.ca> >
> Thanks for the detailed response Ulysses. Have you ever come across
> a guitarist named Buddy Miller?

A very solid player with Harris, on his solo stuff, with wife Julie, or as I
first saw him, with Steve Earle.

See ya,
John

 

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Michael wrote:
> I'm looking for a guitar amp that's good for recording mostly a Fender
> Strat Plus with Lace Sensors and a Gibson Les Paul with PAF's. Music
> style is mostly pop-rock, rock, and blues. Good clean tone is more
> preferable than good distortion since I can get good distortion with
> pedals. Although, good of both is ideal. My budget is up to $600.
> I'm considering ADA Rocket A20R (a rare amp--I have a chance to snag
> one), Peavey Classic 30, Fender Pro Jr., and Fender Blues Jr. Which
> one do you recommend? I heard the ADA is very good. Is it way better
> than the others mentioned? Any others worth considering?
>
> Your help is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!
>
> Michael L.

Speaking of recording amps, anyone here have any face time with a Mesa
Boogie Recording Preamp? I'm headed to a studio in September to lay
down some tracks and the producer has one of these. Any opinions from
people that have used them or heard much about them?

Goosfraba.

:Bazooka-Joe
http/bazooka-joe.blogspot.com/

 

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Rob Reedijk <reedijk@hera.med.utoronto.ca> wrote:

> I know this doesn't make the Deville a better amp. Part of the reason
> he probably went with it was the 4x10 sound which gives a little more
> low-end muscle. I suspect that if we had a reissue Twin he might have
> picked that over the Deville. (Though we did have a modern Twin).
> All of this just shows that guitarists are pretty finicky about what
> amp they will play through.

I haven't heard him, but it sounded like a fun show. And there's no
accounting for taste, especially when it comes to guitar tones which
are about as subjective as one's choice of deity or mate.

> The two main reasons printed boards are used are cost---it is cheaper
> to do it that way, and space---modern amps tend to have so much
> circuitry that point-to-point just isn't practical. But if you
> were to build an amp with a simpler circuit---how older amps were
> made, these two reasons become less important. I do appreciate
> the fact that a well laid out circuit board can be a good thing.
> Witness John Hardy's M1 mic preamps!

There are a two more top reasons manufacturers like to use PCBs.
First of all, it gives them consistent, accurate, repeatable wire
routing so that parasitic capacitance, lead inductance, induced noise,
etc. are predictable and therefore manageable. This directly and
significantly imprives circuit performance IF the designer is paying
attention to detail. This is much more important in tube circuits
because of the very high impedances involved.
Secondly, it makes assembly much easier and less labor-intensive
because it allows for mechanized assembly which can, once again, be far
more consistent and reliable than paying some teenager or old lady
minimum wage to dress wiring harnesses. And yes, it reduces the labor
cost as well.

I manufacturer a few products myself, and I can attest that if I were
to forego the use of printed circuit boards (and board-mount switches
and connectors) the quality of my products would absolutely plummet
while the price would skyrocket. It's really that black-and-white.

ulysses