Why STILL no UNDELETE??????

[bunny]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

I cannot for the life of me fathom why this is STILL not a feature. How
hard can this be?

A google search shows posts going back several years discussing this
lack of functionality. I'm not up to hacking my Tivo just to get it to
do something so simple.

Also, they made a big deal out of realeasing an update to Tivo Desktop
for Mac six months ago, only to have it NOT COMPATIBLE with the new OS
that was released two months later and had been in the works (and
available to developers!!!!!) for MONTHS AND MONTHS.

ARGHHHH!!!!!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Bunny" <Bunny@bunny.com> wrote in message
news:K6NIe.5859$%w.1912@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>I cannot for the life of me fathom why this is STILL not a feature. How
>hard can this be?

Because Tivo does not need to correct your mistakes. You should accept
responibilty and move on.

 

[Howard]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Bunny <Bunny@bunny.com> wrote in news:K6NIe.5859$%w.1912
@twister.nyc.rr.com:

> I cannot for the life of me fathom why this is STILL not a feature. How
> hard can this be?

How far along are you in writing the code?

As you say, how hard can it be? Get crackin'.

> A google search shows posts going back several years discussing this
> lack of functionality. I'm not up to hacking my Tivo just to get it to
> do something so simple.

How is this a lack of functionality? At most it is a 'lack' of a feature a
very very very small number of people have expressed the desire for. When
you delete something, you're given a chance to confirm it first. If you
think you might want it back, answer no.

--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Howard (stile99@email.com) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
> > I cannot for the life of me fathom why this is STILL not a feature. How
> > hard can this be?
>
> How far along are you in writing the code?
>
> As you say, how hard can it be? Get crackin'.

Well, it's already been done as a hack, so I don't think it's *that* hard.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http/www.nabs.net/Cartoons/Dilbert/Win95CatOnMonitor.gif

 

[bunny]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Do a little google, Howard, and you'll see that it's NOT a "very very
very small number of people" that want this. There have been a ton of
requests for this going back to when Tivo was first introduced. And
since it's widely available in various hacks I'd say it would be pretty
darned easy for the Tivo folks to include it in their software.

Go back to your world where you never make mistakes, and leave the rest
of us to the real one.

 

[Howard]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Bunny <Bunny@bunny.com> wrote in news:QJOIe.301$ZG2.271013
@twister.nyc.rr.com:

> Do a little google, Howard, and you'll see that it's NOT a "very very
> very small number of people" that want this. There have been a ton of

Ok. I did. So I typed 'tivo undelete' (no quotes, to get a much larger
pool of results) and got 6,800 results.

6,800 out of 3,000,000 customers. Wow, .2 percent. And that is assuming
each individual result is one distinct individual person saying "I want an
undelete feature". Unlikely at best.

I stand corrected. It's not a very very very small number of people, it's
a very very very very very very very very very miniscule, statistically
insignificant number of people.

--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <Xns96A99B641D8BDstile@129.250.170.93>, Howard
<stile99@email.com> wrote:

> Bunny <Bunny@bunny.com> wrote in news:QJOIe.301$ZG2.271013
> @twister.nyc.rr.com:
>
> > Do a little google, Howard, and you'll see that it's NOT a "very very
> > very small number of people" that want this. There have been a ton of
>
> Ok. I did. So I typed 'tivo undelete' (no quotes, to get a much larger
> pool of results) and got 6,800 results.
>
> 6,800 out of 3,000,000 customers. Wow, .2 percent. And that is assuming
> each individual result is one distinct individual person saying "I want an
> undelete feature". Unlikely at best.
>
> I stand corrected. It's not a very very very small number of people, it's
> a very very very very very very very very very miniscule, statistically
> insignificant number of people.

Number of TiVo customers who are interested in undelete as a feature is
completely different from number of Google hits on 'tivo undelete.'
You're dividing apples and oranges, so you don't end up with a percent
of anything.

Not all TiVo customers who are interested in some feature would mention
it on a web page. Those who do might do so on a forum page that has
many customers expressing a desire for such a feature on the same page.
Of course, some web pages that have the words "tivo" and "undelete"
have nothing to do with a customer who wants that feature.

I understand that you were just responding to Bunny's statement about
doing a Google search, but as someone who teaches statistics, I have to
say something!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On 2005-08-05, Bunny <Bunny@bunny.com> wrote:
> I cannot for the life of me fathom why this is STILL not a feature. How
> hard can this be?
>
> A google search shows posts going back several years discussing this
> lack of functionality. I'm not up to hacking my Tivo just to get it to
> do something so simple.

Hacking your TiVo is seriously a trivial task so if you really wanted the
feature, it's up to you to get it. There are lots of other features you
get by hacking too so to me, it's a no brainer to hack it ASAP.

I've had a hacked TiVo for....gosh...years now and I've used the undelete
feature ~maybe~ twice. As others have said in the thread, don't delete
what you don't want deleted. You can move around when things expire, you
can mark things to never be deleted, it asks you "are you sure" before you
delete things, etc. plus keep in mind this is just TV we're talking about.
I think people are just too used to Microsoft's garbage can idea instead
of taking credit for their own actions.

--
This is my .sig

 

[Howard]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Lot-o-fun <lotofun61@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:050820051730074786%lotofun61@yahoo.com:

> I understand that you were just responding to Bunny's statement about
> doing a Google search,

I'm glad you said this...it takes away the need to point out that I'm not
the one that proposed a connection between a Google search and the number
of people wanting a feature. I merely pointed out that if one DOES want to
make this connection, then, based on the Google search, the number of
people who want this feature isn't enough to warrant a blip on the radar...

However, if Bunny wants to continue to insist there IS a relation, one
would point out that 'tivo undelete' gets less than a tenth of the results
'tivo free space' (again with the disclaimer that each individual result is
unlikely at best to be one individual person requesting the feature).

> but as someone who teaches statistics, I have to
> say something!

Not that I am trying to trap you into anything, but as someone involved
with statistics, isn't .2 percent more of an aberration rather than a
statistic? I mean, in a REALLY GOOD sampling you might get as low as a 3%
(plus or minus) margin of error. 6,800 out of a sample of 3,000,000 is
nothing.

--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <Xns96A9B3B9152D7stile@129.250.170.93>, Howard
<stile99@email.com> wrote:

> Lot-o-fun <lotofun61@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:050820051730074786%lotofun61@yahoo.com:
>
> > but as someone who teaches statistics, I have to
> > say something!
>
> Not that I am trying to trap you into anything, but as someone involved
> with statistics, isn't .2 percent more of an aberration rather than a
> statistic? I mean, in a REALLY GOOD sampling you might get as low as a 3%
> (plus or minus) margin of error. 6,800 out of a sample of 3,000,000 is
> nothing.

My point was that your dividing 6800/3000000 doesn't really give a
percentage, since the 6800 and the 3000000 are counts of different
kinds of things. Your statement would have some statistical meaning if
you asked all 3000000 customers whether they cared about undeleting and
6800 said yes. But the 6800 is web pages, not customers, and even if
it were customers, then it would be 6800 out of customers who have the
means and savvy and interest of posting something on a web page about
the undelete feature. There might be lots of customers who would love
this feature but have never expressed this anywhere that Google would
pick it up.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Howard" <stile99@email.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96A982D8D980stile@129.250.170.91...
SNIP

> How is this a lack of functionality? At most it is a 'lack' of a feature
> a
> very very very small number of people have expressed the desire for. When
> you delete something, you're given a chance to confirm it first. If you
> think you might want it back, answer no.
>
In all fairness, Tivo sometimes deletes things on its own unless you
manually intervene (by specifying to keep something indefinitely or
whatever).

Also, just because a small number of people took the time to express a
desire for a feature doesn't mean it's not a good idea.

Cheers
TC

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Mike Hunt" <in2sheep@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11f7papqlmutfc4@corp.supernews.com...
> On 2005-08-05, Bunny <Bunny@bunny.com> wrote:
SNIP

>
> I've had a hacked TiVo for....gosh...years now and I've used the undelete
> feature ~maybe~ twice. As others have said in the thread, don't delete
> what you don't want deleted. You can move around when things expire, you
> can mark things to never be deleted, it asks you "are you sure" before you
> delete things, etc. plus keep in mind this is just TV we're talking about.
> I think people are just too used to Microsoft's garbage can idea instead
> of taking credit for their own actions.
>

Sometimes it's not an action you have taken as much as it's an action you
haven't taken. Tivo will delete things UNLESS you specifically tell it not
to do so. This can be problematic in households where more than one person
has access to the Tivo. For example, I lost a 6 episode mini-series recently
because I didn't realize that they were up for deletion and my wife told
Tivo to record a bunch of new stuff.

Remember Tivo is supposed to unchain you from your TV set. It would be nice,
on those rare occasions, to have this feature (built-in to Tivo and not
requireing a hack to get them).

Cheers
TC

 

[Howard]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Tony Clark" <curiousgeorge1964@hotmail.com> wrote in news:EYyJe.2829$WD.1103
@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:

> In all fairness, Tivo sometimes deletes things on its own unless you
> manually intervene (by specifying to keep something indefinitely or
> whatever).

You DO realize that when TiVo deletes something it is because it is going to
be overwritten not so much as a second later, right? In this event, even an
undelete feature will not help you...it's gone. There's nothing TO undelete.

--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

> Sometimes it's not an action you have taken as much as it's an action you
> haven't taken. Tivo will delete things UNLESS you specifically tell it not
> to do so. This can be problematic in households where more than one person
> has access to the Tivo. For example, I lost a 6 episode mini-series recently
> because I didn't realize that they were up for deletion and my wife told
> Tivo to record a bunch of new stuff.
>
> Remember Tivo is supposed to unchain you from your TV set. It would be nice,
> on those rare occasions, to have this feature (built-in to Tivo and not
> requireing a hack to get them).

But Howard makes an excellent point. It deleted those shows for a
reason, because it *immediately* reused that space. Therefore those
shows would never be able to be *undeleted*.

An undelete feature would pretty much only be usable for those "senior"
moments of users making mistakes. That's why Tivo asks *twice* before
deleteing a show (once when you select it, once again to make sure).

RandY S.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

> But Howard makes an excellent point. It deleted those shows for a
> reason, because it *immediately* reused that space. Therefore those
> shows would never be able to be *undeleted*.

Like any other software it's always a balance between what people think it
does versus what's actually going on. As well as the difference between
what people think they WANT it to do versus what's practical for the widest
audience.

People that have used a Tivo 'for a while' and those that understand
software will pretty easily recognize that some of the stuff is done in a
particular way for straightforward, if quite complex, reasons. Those new to
Tivo or just not grasping the complexities are sometimes befuddled by it.
No insult to their intelligence intended, there's just more going on in
there than seems obvious at the start.

When you consider that the software has to do in order to record it's really
not too much of a surprise to see why things like undelete and free space
aren't already present. Balancing between placements in the season passes
list, recording later broadcasts of conflict based on it, suggestions, free
space, managing deletion of excess or old episodes and manual recordings...
it's a wonder it works as well as it does.

I think one point most folks miss is the need to have as big a hard drive
(or drives) in there as possible. A lot of the issues with multiple people
using a Tivo can be greatly minimized by not have too small a drive. The
stock 40 hour units are really not suitable for anything other than the most
basic of uses. New users will tend to record "more" than they actually
watch (the hoarding tendency) and multiple new users only makes it that much
worse. Trying to do that on a tiny drive while also learning to use it is
asking for trouble. But, of course, larger drives cost more and
sales/marketing are trying to push units as inexpensively as possible.

This isn't made any easier by DirecTV refusing to implement MRV. They'd
sell more units and more subscriptions by making it possible for a household
to have the ability to combine the double tuners across multiple units. One
for each 'family purpose' would be a tremendous benefit. But hey, that
would make sense and DirecTV doesn't seem to excel in that area...

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Howard" <stile99@email.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96ABDDF9179FAstile@129.250.170.93...
> "Tony Clark" <curiousgeorge1964@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:EYyJe.2829$WD.1103
> @newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:
>
>> In all fairness, Tivo sometimes deletes things on its own unless you
>> manually intervene (by specifying to keep something indefinitely or
>> whatever).
>
> You DO realize that when TiVo deletes something it is because it is going to
> be overwritten not so much as a second later, right? In this event, even an
> undelete feature will not help you...it's gone. There's nothing TO
> undelete.

Some people (a lot of people?) delete things as they watch them. That allows
Tivo to actually record suggestions...if you let Tivo delete shows as it needs
space, you will never have any suggestions because all of your space will be
used for requested recordings.

Ken

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Mike Hunt" <in2sheep@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11f7papqlmutfc4@corp.supernews.com...
>
> I've had a hacked TiVo for....gosh...years now and I've used the undelete
> feature ~maybe~ twice. As others have said in the thread, don't delete
> what you don't want deleted. You can move around when things expire, you
> can mark things to never be deleted, it asks you "are you sure" before you
> delete things, etc. plus keep in mind this is just TV we're talking about.
> I think people are just too used to Microsoft's garbage can idea instead
> of taking credit for their own actions.

I delete things as I watch them, so that only shows I haven't watched are
saved on my Tivo. Occasionally I'll want to undelete something, not because I
accidentally deleted it, but because someone else asks to see it the next day,
and I no longer have it.

Ken

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Randy S." <rswitt@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:dd7i3u$vuq$1@spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu...
>
> But Howard makes an excellent point. It deleted those shows for a reason,
> because it *immediately* reused that space. Therefore those shows would
> never be able to be *undeleted*.
>
> An undelete feature would pretty much only be usable for those "senior"
> moments of users making mistakes. That's why Tivo asks *twice* before
> deleteing a show (once when you select it, once again to make sure).

Not necessarily so, there are a number of occasions where Tivo will delete a
show where it could safely not reuse the space immediately. If you have a
Keep At Most limit on a season pass it will delete old shows without needing
the space. Also, if you delete shows after you finish watching them, there
could be quite a bit of free space on the drive that could be used before the
deleted show's space is reused.

Ken

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

>>You DO realize that when TiVo deletes something it is because it is going to
>>be overwritten not so much as a second later, right? In this event, even an
>>undelete feature will not help you...it's gone. There's nothing TO
>>undelete.
>
>
> Some people (a lot of people?) delete things as they watch them. That allows
> Tivo to actually record suggestions...if you let Tivo delete shows as it needs
> space, you will never have any suggestions because all of your space will be
> used for requested recordings.
>
> Ken

I don't think what he said is disputing that, Howard's just pointing out
that an undelete feature won't be any use for a situation where a show
is *programmatically* deleted by the Tivo.

Randy S.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

>>An undelete feature would pretty much only be usable for those "senior"
>>moments of users making mistakes. That's why Tivo asks *twice* before
>>deleteing a show (once when you select it, once again to make sure).
>
>
> Not necessarily so, there are a number of occasions where Tivo will delete a
> show where it could safely not reuse the space immediately. If you have a
> Keep At Most limit on a season pass it will delete old shows without needing
> the space.

That's a good point.

> Also, if you delete shows after you finish watching them, there
> could be quite a bit of free space on the drive that could be used before the
> deleted show's space is reused.

Hmm, it's possible, but since there's no telling which areas will be
written over, it's really hit or miss. How much good is an undelete
feature that *sometimes* works?

Truthfully, I think undelete is much more useful when dealing with lots
of small files like on a regular PC, not when dealing with fewer numbers
of very large files. Note that unless you drastically change default
settings, PC's typically won't store very large files (esp. video files)
in the undelete (i.e. trash) area.

Randy S.