Yahoo, White House Backs Google China Dispute

[exfileme]

Yahoo and the White House are backing Google's decision to end censorship.

Yahoo, White House Backs Google China Dispute : Read more

 

[sliem]

Communism should be wiped off the planet's face.

 

[B-Unit]

Yea, because capitalism is working out so well right now...

 

[frozenlead]

[citation][nom]sliem[/nom]Communism should be wiped off the planet's face.[/citation]

I think you mean censorship. Not all communist governments have to be so restrictive of their people. Some do think, though, that censorship is an important factor in creating people whom benefit [the given] society as a whole. It's debatable.

 

[doc70]

[citation][nom]frozenlead[/nom]I think you mean censorship. Not all communist governments have to be so restrictive of their people. Some do think, though, that censorship is an important factor in creating people whom benefit [the given] society as a whole. It's debatable.[/citation]
buddy, have you ever lived in a communist country? No government, communist or not, HAS to be restrictive of their people. But this is the only way a communist government can survive. Communism is a dangerous utopia that only lives well in Marx' and Lenin's books. It has destroyed more lives than all the world wars put together and that is a mild estimate.
Capitalism, in it's current form, does not have much to brag about either, but at least you have your freedoms - well, those that still remain, see latest trends. I believe some of the best places to live right now are in some Scandinavian countries, but their forms of government include a lot of common sense.

 

[thedreadfather]

[citation][nom]B-Unit[/nom]Yea, because capitalism is working out so well right now...[/citation]
So you advocate totalitarianism?

 

[frozenlead]

[citation][nom]doc70[/nom]buddy, have you ever lived in a communist country? No government, communist or not, HAS to be restrictive of their people. [/citation]

...that was my point...no government form is perfect, but what's being disputed here is the censorship of China, not it's type of government. I was making that clear. I don't really see why you're responding this way when you agree?

 

[blazeorangeman]

If you don't think capitalism is working out so great right now go move to your own personal island and make up your government. Let me know how it is.

 

[omnimodis78]

[citation][nom]doc70[/nom]buddy, have you ever lived in a communist country? No government, communist or not, HAS to be restrictive of their people. But this is the only way a communist government can survive. Communism is a dangerous utopia that only lives well in Marx' and Lenin's books. It has destroyed more lives than all the world wars put together and that is a mild estimate. Capitalism, in it's current form, does not have much to brag about either, but at least you have your freedoms - well, those that still remain, see latest trends. I believe some of the best places to live right now are in some Scandinavian countries, but their forms of government include a lot of common sense.[/citation]
Do you understand the social dynamics in China? If you did then you would understand in a heartbeat that China has always been and to its benefit must remain a state ruled by an autocrat. Communism is the best way of not putting power in one man's hands, instead leverage it with some sort of a civil system. I don't agree with it either, and I was born and lived for 12 years behind the Iron Curtain, but please understand that it's either an Emperor or a party chairman for China, and I am sure they would rather have the chairman.

 

[Khimera2000]

Wow didn't even know yahoo pulled out of china... must of bin in boot camp.. looks about the right time. if china wants to hack away and censor let them... but when there completely isolated and unable to expand markets because of an IT collapse they will only have themselves to blame.

 

[digiex]

Pull-out other hi-tech industries as well. China copies everything, then produce cheap imitation, besides ruining businesses, also a high security risk. Then relocate then all to the Philippines. Mabuhay Pilipinas!

 

[zyrumtumtugger]

China's society is practically Capitalist by now, it just has too much government intervention.

 

[Guest]

The answer is to Boycott Made in China. Everthing they do is reliant upon either foreign investment and technology which just gets copied and stolen to use in local companies that just turn around and compete against them or to continue the stranglehold that they have on the markets of the world. America's shelves alone have probably 90% Made in China. It is better not to buy at all than the buy Made in China. You may not think of it this way but everytime to do you are willingly promoting the downfall of our country to this type of system and attack which could care less about you.Spread the word to stop this invasion!

 

[Pei-chen]

Can Yahoo give me its 39% share of Alibaba that it paid $1 billion for back in 2005. After all, Yahoo wouldn't want to make money from something immoral right?

 

[palladin9479]

Ok you can tell who are the college educated people and who are the ones educated by real life. Communism only works on a very small scale, about that of a small village or tribe. In a communistic society people are supposed to share the profit of efforts of the group. On a small scale this is done with relative ease.

Unfortunately on a large scale there must be ~someone~ in charge of redistributing the collective wealth of the group. This person (or group of people) wields a large amount of power, as they can make up rules and dictate how the resources of the whole will be used. They can then stifle dissent and remove / kill anyone who seeks to change the current rules. They can also reward themselves with whatever they want from the produce of the group. Have the nicest dwellings, best women, best food, whatever they want. And no one from the lower non-administrative members of the tribe can stop them. Well nothing short of a full scale revolt. Communism results in the concentration of all the power in the hands of a select few. Communistic governments / society's must actively stifle dissent and censor what the lower members are exposed to. This prevents the full scale revolt from happening. Because once the members of the lower population discover that their leaders are stealing from the groups welfare, they get angry and want to replace those leaders.

In China there is no democracy, the people can not choose to remove their leadership. Instead there is a Oligarchy. A small group of members who lead the CCP that decide everything. They appoint each other to their positions, they only promote those that support them, and then ensure that nobody from the lower population threatens their position. These are people with multiple large house's who eat special food and basically live like kings. Their lifestyle is provided for by the labor of the lower population, and they will stop at nothing to ensure the status quo doesn't change.

This my friends is what EVERY communistic government ever created in the world has ended up as. A slave class supporting an administrative class with brutal control and censorship involved. Capitalism may have its problems (namely the separation of profit and morality), but at least in a Democratic society we can vote OUT bad leaders. At least we have a voice the the government can not censor, they must listen to us. And they must do what the majority will's them to do, because if they don't then they get replaced on the next election. There is no such safety net for communism.

Anyone who disagrees with this, anyone who hated capitalism and extols the virtues of a communistic society should resign their citizenship from the USA (or whatever modern democratic society they are a member of) and immigrate to China, or even North Korea. Give up your nintendo, PS3's, your SUV's and other things you purchased with your own hard earned money. Instead give it all away and allow another country's government to decide what you can and can not have. Anything else is just you being a hypocrite.

 

[anamaniac]

[citation][nom]palladin9479[/nom]Ok you can tell who are the college educated people and who are the ones educated by real life. Communism only works on a very small scale, about that of a small village or tribe. In a communistic society people are supposed to share the profit of efforts of the group. On a small scale this is done with relative ease. Unfortunately on a large scale there must be ~someone~ in charge of redistributing the collective wealth of the group. This person (or group of people) wields a large amount of power, as they can make up rules and dictate how the resources of the whole will be used. They can then stifle dissent and remove / kill anyone who seeks to change the current rules. They can also reward themselves with whatever they want from the produce of the group. Have the nicest dwellings, best women, best food, whatever they want. And no one from the lower non-administrative members of the tribe can stop them. Well nothing short of a full scale revolt. Communism results in the concentration of all the power in the hands of a select few. Communistic governments / society's must actively stifle dissent and censor what the lower members are exposed to. This prevents the full scale revolt from happening. Because once the members of the lower population discover that their leaders are stealing from the groups welfare, they get angry and want to replace those leaders.In China there is no democracy, the people can not choose to remove their leadership. Instead there is a Oligarchy. A small group of members who lead the CCP that decide everything. They appoint each other to their positions, they only promote those that support them, and then ensure that nobody from the lower population threatens their position. These are people with multiple large house's who eat special food and basically live like kings. Their lifestyle is provided for by the labor of the lower population, and they will stop at nothing to ensure the status quo doesn't change.This my friends is what EVERY communistic government ever created in the world has ended up as. A slave class supporting an administrative class with brutal control and censorship involved. Capitalism may have its problems (namely the separation of profit and morality), but at least in a Democratic society we can vote OUT bad leaders. At least we have a voice the the government can not censor, they must listen to us. And they must do what the majority will's them to do, because if they don't then they get replaced on the next election. There is no such safety net for communism.Anyone who disagrees with this, anyone who hated capitalism and extols the virtues of a communistic society should resign their citizenship from the USA (or whatever modern democratic society they are a member of) and immigrate to China, or even North Korea. Give up your nintendo, PS3's, your SUV's and other things you purchased with your own hard earned money. Instead give it all away and allow another country's government to decide what you can and can not have. Anything else is just you being a hypocrite.[/citation]
What about us who believe in socialism?
Work hard, rewarded for hard work, but still work for the greater good at the same time.
Capitalism/Communism/Socialism etc. none are perfect, and the flaw is humans.

Go Google.

=D

 

[kravmaga]

[citation][nom]udtek_adapter[/nom]hmm, this is a qusetion ! but My friend told me that baidu.com is better than goolge.cn in Chinese search.I can't understand why so many people debate ideology? I think google should be localized in China![/citation]

Because the premise of the article was pretty much flame-baiting to start with. Almost all governments (us included) do what the chinese do all the fucking time while hiding under the pretense of being better because they do it for a good classified cause. They call them dissidents, we call them terrorists. Some are just better at keeping it quiet while China simply saw no reason to have to justify itself since nobody over in China has incentive to start shit with the government. Can you really blame them?

Google's market share in china was pretty lackluster anyway; as you mentioned, baidu has pretty much pushed them back under 30% market share last I heard. The meager annual billion they'd give up on that front wouldn't even put a nick on their revenue stream but it would buy them one of the biggest, ballsiest PR stunt of all history by giving the scapegoat's republic of China the middle finger. Just think of the massive popularity it'd bring in.

 

[r0x0r]

[citation][nom]karnot[/nom]The answer is to Boycott Made in China. Everthing they do is reliant upon either foreign investment and technology which just gets copied and stolen to use in local companies that just turn around and compete against them or to continue the stranglehold that they have on the markets of the world. America's shelves alone have probably 90% Made in China. It is better not to buy at all than the buy Made in China. You may not think of it this way but everytime to do you are willingly promoting the downfall of our country to this type of system and attack which could care less about you.Spread the word to stop this invasion![/citation]

Only problem is that people buy things based on cost instead of value. There's more value to buying a locally-made product that's of higher quality, but when people see that it has a higher pricetag...

I find that China's most vocal detractors are also its biggest economic supporters; they just don't know it.

 

[tommysch]

If someone illegally hacks an account in the US, Google can always approach the authorities and have the person arrested. But who can Google ask to stop hacking in China if the people doing it are the government itself?

Hire a hitman or organize a coup.

 

[gnesterenko]

This person (or group of people) wields a large amount of power, as they can make up rules and dictate how the resources of the whole will be used. They can then stifle dissent and remove / kill anyone who seeks to change the current rules. They can also reward themselves with whatever they want from the produce of the group. Have the nicest dwellings, best women, best food, whatever they want. And no one from the lower non-administrative members of the tribe can stop them.

From the longer but intelligent post above. While I agree that everything you are saying is correct, I should point out that Capitalism has created the very same people you mention as an inevitablity of Communism. Today in America (and even more so in a Russia), the super rich have achieved the exact state you are describing: the nicest dwellings, best women, best food, whatever they want. So the main difference, to me, is the conditions for the lower rung of society. In our quasi-capitalistic system (Welfare, medicare, etc are very socialistic in nature), the lower rung recieves very little but enough to live (in most cases anyway), but unfortunately often are unable to contribute enough back to society. Where as in a communistic system, the lower rung has (historically) recieved plenty enough to survive (housing, food, education, medical care) BUT has also been put to work by the state - so contributing something back.

I think the point to take here is that either system, taken to the extreme, creates massive class disparity, and thus should be avoided. In my opinion, the best system would lie somewhere in the middle. A democratically elected government with limited terms (looking at you, congressmen and women) is naturally the only way to ensure that power is not consolidated in one place for too long. However, we should be taking a page out of the communist book in terms of the social services provided by the government - that is a basic level of food, shelter, education (ESPECIALLY higher education - meaning grad schools, medical schools, etc)and medical care should be provided to all citizens who cannot afford it free of charge. That isn't to say that private industries in each sector cannot flourish - they would simply provide a service level beyond the basic level provided by the government. In addition, government should put to work any who are unable to procure employment on their own. The army has very sophisticated tools for determening someones strengths and natural abilities - this can be used to decide what kind of work someone would do. But that is just my opinion and I don't expect anything like this to be accepted here in the States anytime soon. On the other hand, so far, our political evolution has followed the Marx theory of communism perfectly. Whether it will actually turn out the same way that Marx predicted remains to be seen - just saying that so far, the US is right on track.

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