Canon Rebel 350D/Rebel XT vs Nikon D70

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"Siddhartha Jain" <losttoy2000@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1108735305.684678.264970@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Ok, someone had to do it. Now go ....
>
> - Siddhartha

I've been doing on-line research between Nikon D70 and Canon's 20D and
Digital Rebel for some time. Also, I've spoken with several friends who
have one system or the other and another friend who is a professional
photographer. The preferences vary, but most folks are happy with what they
own.

Today, I went to the corner camera store and test drove a Digital Rebel and
a Nikon D70. Huge difference in feel. The Canon was very small in my hands
and was very light. The package lens felt fragile, and the controls had a
cheap feel. In contrast, the Nikon body and kit lens had a much more solid
feel. While weight isn't good when you're lugging it around for hours at a
time, a camera is a tool, and should feel good in your hands.

I'm waiting to play with a Rebel 350D before I make a decision, but right
now, I'm leaning Nikon. I'll lean harder that way if they upgrade their
sensor to 8mp...

I still want to get a 20D in my hands, although I'm not sure I'm a serious
enough user to spend the extra ~$500.

KB

 

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Kyle Boatright wrote:
> "Siddhartha Jain" <losttoy2000@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1108735305.684678.264970@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
>>Ok, someone had to do it. Now go ....
>>
>>- Siddhartha
>
>
> I've been doing on-line research between Nikon D70 and Canon's 20D and
> Digital Rebel for some time. Also, I've spoken with several friends who
> have one system or the other and another friend who is a professional
> photographer. The preferences vary, but most folks are happy with what they
> own.
>
> Today, I went to the corner camera store and test drove a Digital Rebel and
> a Nikon D70. Huge difference in feel. The Canon was very small in my hands
> and was very light. The package lens felt fragile, and the controls had a
> cheap feel. In contrast, the Nikon body and kit lens had a much more solid
> feel. While weight isn't good when you're lugging it around for hours at a
> time, a camera is a tool, and should feel good in your hands.
>
> I'm waiting to play with a Rebel 350D before I make a decision, but right
> now, I'm leaning Nikon. I'll lean harder that way if they upgrade their
> sensor to 8mp...
>
> I still want to get a 20D in my hands, although I'm not sure I'm a serious
> enough user to spend the extra ~$500.
>
Please post back your reflections on the 350D. Could be interesting!

--
John McWilliams

 

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John McWilliams wrote:

> Where is this critical? I was under the impression it was used only in
> slow shutter situations, on a tripod.
>
> Has not the mirror pop up and back improved over the years?

Probably, but never enough. On the EOS-1v there is an active damping system,
but on pretty much every other SLR/DSLR the mirror slap problem remains. CW is
that a shot of 1/10 or so down to about 1/125 or so, on a tripod, will benefit
from a mirror lockup. The real times vary from camera model to model and may
affected by other mass (flash, lens, coupling to tripod).

Some people subscribe to a range of 1 sec down to 1/250 as 'mirror lockup' range.

On Maxxum cameras, a 2 sec delay is used for mirror lockup. (When in that mode,
the shutter is delayed by 2 sec after the mirror is up).

Cheers,
Alan.

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On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 13:14:03 -0800, John McWilliams
<jpmcw@comcast.net> wrote:

>Christopher Pollard wrote:
>> On 18 Feb 2005 22:29:43 -0800, "Swriter33" <tony@povertyisland.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>My D70 has mirror lock up... Am I missing something? I used it to
>>>clean the ccd.
>>
>>
>> Yeah. You're missing the idea that it would be nice to have mirror lock up for
>> taking photos. The idea is, to flip up the mirror, and allow time for the
>> resultant vibrations to die down before opening the shutter.
>>
>Where is this critical? I was under the impression it was used only in
>slow shutter situations, on a tripod.
>
>Has not the mirror pop up and back improved over the years?

Yes, but for critical work at shutter speeds of 1 sec to about 1/15
it's still nice to have. On a lot of slr's using the self timer will
accomplish the same thing.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

> Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtri@dslextreme.com> wrote:

> I'm curious to see the noise and color accuracy
> performance of the 350D. Can technology compensate for
> such small sensors in an inexpensive camera?

APS-size isn't that small, compared to digicam sensor
sizes. And pel density seems to be the biggest factor
in noise (at least today). The next issue is: can the
glass actually resolve to the sensor res?

> Sony's 8MP sensors weren't very impressive.

If Canon starts shipping the 350D before Phil has test
charts, as Sony did with the DSC-F828, then we'll have
our answer. But my guess is that there's no noise issue.

I ran the numbers once, and my faulty recollection is
that an APS-size sensor would have to get to 20Mp or
so before it was at the same pel density as that Sony
'F828 sensor.

It will be interesting to see where the Mpixel race
tops out at the various sensors sizes. I daresay that
the reach of the tiny digicam sensors has already
exceeded their grasp at 8Mp.

On the 350D kit, will dpreview's test charts be
testing the camera, or the lens? We await the results.

--
Regards, Bob Niland mailto:name@ispname.tld
http/www.access-one.com/rjn email4rjn AT yahoo DOT com
NOT speaking for any employer, client or Internet Service Provider.

 

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On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 16:13:52 -0500, Larry <larrylynch3rd@comcast.net>
wrote:

>Its past being a good camera and almost into being a great camera, the only
>holdback being that one little problem.

>I just inherited a suitcase full of Canon glass

I'd like that sort of problem. It would make my deliberations much
easier.

(I've just found this group, having decided that it's time to move on
from my Olympus OMs into the digital SLR world. Thanks to threads like
this I'm getting an idea of what's available in the dSLR marketplace.)


--
Al

[This space intentionally left blank]

 

[photobug]

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I have a Nikon D70 that I purchase last Oct. I knew when I got it that the
megapixel battle would eventually become a topic. I figure that for my
use that 6 megapixel will be useful for me for several years to come. I
would not consider a 2 megapixel change to be significant enough to even
bother to be the reason that would drive my purchase if I were to buy a
new camera today. For most users you will not see a diffrence in picture
quality until you get at least a doubling of your pixels (read as 12-40
megapixel camera). By the time I will be looking at my next camera that
is the sort of range that I would need to see to make the next jump. I
looked the the rebel when I originally bought and didn't even consider it
a contender. The 350 might be an improvement but I like the size, feel
and controls on my D70. It just feels tough and the Cannon didn't. I
will likley stay with Nikon in the future since I have invested in Nikon
glass and speedlights.

I will likely look at the Cannon 350 out of being curious but the
megapixels don't make the camera. There is so much more!!

 

[photobug]

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I am adding just one more comment. I think even with the new Cannon 350 XT
having the improvements it will still be a close call on which camera gets
the nod by most buyers. If you have been doing photography for awhile you
will likely have your preference. If you like Nikon then you'll get a D70
and if the past loves have been Cannon then it's the 350XT. Like anything
else if you drive a Ford you'll turn up your nose at a Chev.

I really believe that you need a more substantial reason then 2 megapixels
to decide on what you will use and enjoy. If you can then test drive both
and go with the "love of your life". I think both are likely good cameras
and in the right hands will produce great photo's which is the name of the
game.

Photobug

 

[photobug]

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In regards to my message on 2005-02-23 @ 22:12. I made a typo. The next
megapixel range I will update to to actually see an improvement will be in
the 12-16 megapixel range for a DSLR and actually I will want to look at
the upper range of that at the 16 megapixel range. I fugure if DSLR's
have upward movement that the computer industry has seen in the past that
this range will be in the not too distant future, maybe 2-3 years for
consumer, lower cost 16 megapixel DSLR's of the same range as Pentax ,
Cannon Rebel and Nikon D70.

Photobug

 

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I have been using a Nikon F2a Film camera. I bought it when Nikon was
King, Canon a distant second, and the rest of pack were also rans. My
current lenses will not work with the new stuff so what I have is not a
consideration.

Now Canon seems to be King and Nikon is second, probably closer to Canon
than Canon was to Nikon in the past. Nikon D70 does seem to be better
constructed than the Digital Rebel and the lenses appear more sturdy as
well. I do not know about the XT but the 20D seems to be well built and
balanced.

So what I owned in the past does not seem to sway be toward Nikon except
for the fact that Nikon in my mind seems more prestigious. However, the
majority people are trying hard to convince me to buy Canon. The color
rendition from the Canons seem to be more pleasing and less muted but I
have not seen enough. Well, for now I can be confused.

Photobug wrote:

>I am adding just one more comment. I think even with the new Cannon 350 XT
>having the improvements it will still be a close call on which camera gets
>the nod by most buyers. If you have been doing photography for awhile you
>will likely have your preference. If you like Nikon then you'll get a D70
>and if the past loves have been Cannon then it's the 350XT. Like anything
>else if you drive a Ford you'll turn up your nose at a Chev.
>
>I really believe that you need a more substantial reason then 2 megapixels
>to decide on what you will use and enjoy. If you can then test drive both
>and go with the "love of your life". I think both are likely good cameras
>and in the right hands will produce great photo's which is the name of the
>game.
>
>Photobug
>
>
>

 

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>
> The D70 has spot metering, which the EOS-350D doesn't have.
This is one major gotcha. I owned a G1, and uses spot metering 80% of
the time for portraits. Am thinking of 350D, but without spot metering,
what new tricks must I learn to take good pictures?

CJ

 

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Joe Cole wrote:
>
>>
>> The D70 has spot metering, which the EOS-350D doesn't have.
>
> This is one major gotcha. I owned a G1, and uses spot metering 80% of
> the time for portraits. Am thinking of 350D, but without spot metering,
> what new tricks must I learn to take good pictures?

For portraits, lighting control is important. Shoot manual. Use an ambient
incident/flash meter and a camera with a sync terminal to trigger the strobes.
(Or a wireless system with the off camera lights at manual power settings).

Portraits with a TTL meter (ambient or flash) does not lead to consistent exposure.

Cheers,
Alan.

--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http/www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http/www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http/www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.

 

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Joe Cole wrote:

>
>>
>> The D70 has spot metering, which the EOS-350D doesn't have.
>
> This is one major gotcha. I owned a G1, and uses spot metering 80% of
> the time for portraits. Am thinking of 350D, but without spot metering,
> what new tricks must I learn to take good pictures?

For portraits, lighting control is important. Shoot manual. Use an ambient
incident/flash meter and a camera with a sync terminal to trigger the strobes.
(Or a wireless system with the off camera lights at manual power settings).

Portraits with a TTL meter (ambient or flash) does not lead to consistent exposure.

Cheers,
Alan.


--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http/www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http/www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http/www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.

 

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G.T. wrote:
> "Alfred Molon" <DELETEalfred_molon@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1c8ef0eac4d6a71398aa1d@news.supernews.com...

<snip>

> > One more reason to introduce live preview even on
> > DSLRs.
>
> And you call Steven a troll. Ironic.

Alfred may not be a troll, he may just not understand how SLRs work.
I've seen many of his posts, and he is either a troll, or quite
clueless, and I can't figure out which.

 

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"Joe Cole" <cphua@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4224c6f0$0$6199$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com...
>
>>
>> The D70 has spot metering, which the EOS-350D doesn't have.
> This is one major gotcha. I owned a G1, and uses spot metering 80% of the
> time for portraits. Am thinking of 350D, but without spot metering, what
> new tricks must I learn to take good pictures?
>
> CJ

The lack of spot meter kept me out of the DSLR game for a long time, but it
became apparent that Canon wasn't going to produce a sub $2000 DSLR with it,
so I relented. I still miss it, to me it was invaluable for portrait work,
but others seem to have adjusted well, I can, too. In the meantime, I'm
saving up nickels and dimes for a 1 series body...

--
Skip Middleton
http/www.shadowcatcherimagery.com

 

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Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <4224c6f0$0$6199$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com>, Joe
Cole says...

> This is one major gotcha. I owned a G1, and uses spot metering 80% of
> the time for portraits. Am thinking of 350D, but without spot metering,
> what new tricks must I learn to take good pictures?

With non-DLSRs spot metering is easy and cheap to implement because all
you need to do is read out the central pixels, but with a DSLR it's more
complicated, as you need a separate sensor (from what I understand)
which costs money. One more reason to introduce live preview even on
DSLRs.
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus 4040, 5050, 5060, 7070, 8080, E300 forum at
http/groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
Olympus 8080 resource - http/myolympus.org/8080/

 

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"Alfred Molon" <DELETEalfred_molon@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c8ef0eac4d6a71398aa1d@news.supernews.com...
> In article <4224c6f0$0$6199$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com>, Joe
> Cole says...
>
> > This is one major gotcha. I owned a G1, and uses spot metering 80% of
> > the time for portraits. Am thinking of 350D, but without spot metering,
> > what new tricks must I learn to take good pictures?
>
> With non-DLSRs spot metering is easy and cheap to implement because all
> you need to do is read out the central pixels, but with a DSLR it's more
> complicated, as you need a separate sensor (from what I understand)
> which costs money. One more reason to introduce live preview even on
> DSLRs.

And you call Steven a troll. Ironic.

GT
--
"Keep music evil" - Cathal Coughlan

 

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Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Alfred Molon" <DELETEalfred_molon@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Joe Cole says...
>
> > This is one major gotcha. I owned a G1, and uses spot metering 80% of
> > the time for portraits. Am thinking of 350D, but without spot metering,
> > what new tricks must I learn to take good pictures?

You'll have to learn how to use partial metering or matrix metering. Lots of
people are doing just fine without a spot meter, although it is a serious
irritation.

> With non-DLSRs spot metering is easy and cheap to implement because all
> you need to do is read out the central pixels, but with a DSLR it's more
> complicated, as you need a separate sensor (from what I understand)
> which costs money. One more reason to introduce live preview even on
> DSLRs.

All the other dSLRs have a spot meter: it's not price. Canon doesn't believe
in including a spot meter in low end cameras. The EOS 3 has a spot meter,
but their affordable dSLRs are all based on their very low (Rebel) and low
(EOS 7) end cameras.

Since Canon doesn't (yet) have a midrange dSLR, you have to go to the pro
models to get a spot meter.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan

 

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G.T. wrote:

> "Alfred Molon" <DELETEalfred_molon@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1c8ef0eac4d6a71398aa1d@news.supernews.com...
>
>>In article <4224c6f0$0$6199$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com>, Joe
>>Cole says...
>>
>>
>>>This is one major gotcha. I owned a G1, and uses spot metering 80% of
>>>the time for portraits. Am thinking of 350D, but without spot metering,
>>>what new tricks must I learn to take good pictures?
>>
>>With non-DLSRs spot metering is easy and cheap to implement because all
>>you need to do is read out the central pixels, but with a DSLR it's more
>>complicated, as you need a separate sensor (from what I understand)
>>which costs money. One more reason to introduce live preview even on
>>DSLRs.
>
>
> And you call Steven a troll. Ironic.

There's no reason a live preview can't be implemented on a DSLR, and it
appears that the 20Da has just that. It's just another degree of
complexity, and would make the metering more complex in operation for
the photographer. (Am I metering in the VF or on the sensor).

I will bet that the next gen of DSLR's will begin to have preview modes
complete with histos, clip/blocking cues, etc.



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-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.

 

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"Skip M" <shadowcatcher@cox.net> writes:

> The lack of spot meter kept me out of the DSLR game for a long time, but it
> became apparent that Canon wasn't going to produce a sub $2000 DSLR with it,
> so I relented. I still miss it, to me it was invaluable for portrait work,
> but others seem to have adjusted well, I can, too. In the meantime, I'm
> saving up nickels and dimes for a 1 series body...

I'm thinking of buying a 350D (the price seems right). I'm wondering:
is it possible to come in very close to the subject (making matrix
metering equivalent to spot), read out the exposure reading, then
"fix" them, somehow (even by turning to full manual mode, if necessary)?

i.e. can one read the shutter/aperture the camera intends to use
on this camera? For portraits, this might be a suitable compromise.

--ap