fm tuners (another perspective)

[Michael]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

In today's Wall Street Journal there is an article on page 1 about how
the small, but mighty iPod is changing the face of FM. To summarize,
with the consumer now being able to carry around a thousand songs in his
pocket, there is less and less interest in FM (and AM is now pretty much
news-talk). Broadcasters, who went through a spate of consolidations
are now wondering if this kind of corporate ownership of many stations
under one umbrella is going to be profitable, given their current need
to limit commercial time (in order to play more songs) to counter the
iPod, a device which has no commercials.


Some are considering accelerating plans for converting to digital
broadcasting in order to offer a superior product, but the cost and
current lack of ubiquitous consumer hardware is a big gamble for them.


In any case, the consumer market for traditional FM tuners may likely go
the way of the compact cassette--something no one really cares about,
anymore.


michael

 

[SD]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

In article <d1fsda0167s@news1.newsguy.com>,
michael <mpresley@earthlink.net> wrote:

> In today's Wall Street Journal there is an article on page 1 about how
> the small, but mighty iPod is changing the face of FM. To summarize,
> with the consumer now being able to carry around a thousand songs in his
> pocket, there is less and less interest in FM (and AM is now pretty much
> news-talk). Broadcasters, who went through a spate of consolidations
> are now wondering if this kind of corporate ownership of many stations
> under one umbrella is going to be profitable, given their current need
> to limit commercial time (in order to play more songs) to counter the
> iPod, a device which has no commercials.
>
>
> Some are considering accelerating plans for converting to digital
> broadcasting in order to offer a superior product, but the cost and
> current lack of ubiquitous consumer hardware is a big gamble for them.

Funny how those broadcasters see this problem. Does it occur to them
that unadventurous homogenized playlists and a reliance on music
that sounds like what came before it ("She's great -- she sounds
like a cross between Sheryl Crow and Avril Lavigne!") _might_ have
something to do with FM's fading popularity?

There's an old saying that was popular in the digital world long
before digital-radio signals: garbage in, garbage out. It can be the
best sound in the world, but if it's boring or dreck, it won't get
much of an audience. The iPod didn't create _that_ problem.

sd

 

[ban]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

michael wrote:
> In today's Wall Street Journal there is an article on page 1 about how
> the small, but mighty iPod is changing the face of FM. To summarize,
> with the consumer now being able to carry around a thousand songs in
> his pocket, there is less and less interest in FM (and AM is now
> pretty much news-talk). Broadcasters, who went through a spate of
> consolidations are now wondering if this kind of corporate ownership
> of many stations under one umbrella is going to be profitable, given
> their current need to limit commercial time (in order to play more
> songs) to counter the iPod, a device which has no commercials.
>
snip
> michael

Is this is another ad for the iPod or what?
The presumption is absolutly ridiculous. In the first place there are not
enough ipods sold to really have this effect. And there are a ten- or
hundredfold more MP3 players out there, which are not supposed to have the
same outcome? Whatever the case, those players replace the old
cassette-walkmen and not FM-radios. If you listen to Radio you want the
news, traffic situation or entertainment while driving the car, situations
that are not even mentioned in the article. And who connects the Ipod in the
car? Another clientel of FM stations are the housewifes, hardly able to
connect and operate the ipod.
So Michael, do not believe every news, even if in the Wall Street Journal.

--
ciao Ban
Bordighera, Italy

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

"sd" <sd55117@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d1hj4j0nkj@news1.newsguy.com...
> In article <d1fsda0167s@news1.newsguy.com>,
> michael <mpresley@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > In today's Wall Street Journal there is an article on page 1 about how
> > the small, but mighty iPod is changing the face of FM. To summarize,
> > with the consumer now being able to carry around a thousand songs in his
> > pocket, there is less and less interest in FM (and AM is now pretty much
> > news-talk). Broadcasters, who went through a spate of consolidations
> > are now wondering if this kind of corporate ownership of many stations
> > under one umbrella is going to be profitable, given their current need
> > to limit commercial time (in order to play more songs) to counter the
> > iPod, a device which has no commercials.
> >
> >
> > Some are considering accelerating plans for converting to digital
> > broadcasting in order to offer a superior product, but the cost and
> > current lack of ubiquitous consumer hardware is a big gamble for them.
>
> Funny how those broadcasters see this problem. Does it occur to them
> that unadventurous homogenized playlists and a reliance on music
> that sounds like what came before it ("She's great -- she sounds
> like a cross between Sheryl Crow and Avril Lavigne!") _might_ have
> something to do with FM's fading popularity?
>
> There's an old saying that was popular in the digital world long
> before digital-radio signals: garbage in, garbage out. It can be the
> best sound in the world, but if it's boring or dreck, it won't get
> much of an audience. The iPod didn't create _that_ problem.
>

My 21 year old friends and his son's listen only to college radio (we are
blessed with over a half-dozen nearby). He says "they're the only ones
playing a variety of new music". He's right, so far as I can tell.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

michael wrote:

> In any case, the consumer market for traditional FM tuners may likely go
> the way of the compact cassette--something no one really cares about,
> anymore.

Like others here, I don't think that the iPod is the problem. Unlike
others, I don't think that the character of the material being broadcast
on FM is an issue either. Nope.

FM is gonna go the way of the open reel tape deck just because it's
essentially obsolete. I was hanging out with a friend who's a
loudspeaker designer/hobbyiest and he was playing Internet Radio over
his Apple Mac laptop and damn if it didn't sound good! Who needs FM
when they can listen to this! There's a gazillion stations to listen to
and tons of stuff to choose from.

My favorite FM station went off the air about 10 years ago. Radio
station KJAZ in the San Francisco area always had a great sense of what
swings. At least to my ear. The guys who ran that station are not
"broadcasting" on Shoutcast and it sounds pretty good!

To get good FM sound, you need to do the whole persnickity analog thing.
Put up a roof mounted FM antenna, run good quality co-ax cable to a
quality FM tuner, and to judge from what we've been reading here, there
aren't any really good FM tuners being built any more. Those tuners
where really are good are 10 to 20 years old and are God-awful
expensive. Anyone price a Sequerra, Marantz 10B, McIntosh MR-71, etc
lately?

It's only a matter of time before some enterprising fool comes up with a
dedicated Internet Radio gizmo. Geez. You could do it with a $300
used Dell laptop, Fedora Linux, the free RealAudio player, and a
broadband connection.

Russ

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

Russ Button wrote:
> michael wrote:
>
>> In any case, the consumer market for traditional FM tuners may likely
>> go the way of the compact cassette--something no one really cares
>> about, anymore.
>
>
> Like others here, I don't think that the iPod is the problem. Unlike
> others, I don't think that the character of the material being broadcast
> on FM is an issue either. Nope.
>
> FM is gonna go the way of the open reel tape deck just because it's
> essentially obsolete. I was hanging out with a friend who's a
> loudspeaker designer/hobbyiest and he was playing Internet Radio over
> his Apple Mac laptop and damn if it didn't sound good! Who needs FM
> when they can listen to this! There's a gazillion stations to listen to
> and tons of stuff to choose from.
>
> My favorite FM station went off the air about 10 years ago. Radio
> station KJAZ in the San Francisco area always had a great sense of what
> swings. At least to my ear. The guys who ran that station are not
> "broadcasting" on Shoutcast and it sounds pretty good!
>
> To get good FM sound, you need to do the whole persnickity analog thing.
> Put up a roof mounted FM antenna, run good quality co-ax cable to a
> quality FM tuner, and to judge from what we've been reading here, there
> aren't any really good FM tuners being built any more. Those tuners
> where really are good are 10 to 20 years old and are God-awful
> expensive. Anyone price a Sequerra, Marantz 10B, McIntosh MR-71, etc
> lately?
>
> It's only a matter of time before some enterprising fool comes up with a
> dedicated Internet Radio gizmo. Geez. You could do it with a $300
> used Dell laptop, Fedora Linux, the free RealAudio player, and a
> broadband connection.
>
> Russ
So true. I'd like to add that, things like the Ipod and any personal
player could not possibly kill FM radio entirely because these formats
address different needs. An ipod lets you play YOUR music. FM radio,
like internet radio, broadcasts music to everyone and gives them the
chance to discover new music they might like. How are you going to
discover new music in an ipod? Sure, you can borrow someone elses
playlists or download songs from the net, but its not as seamless and
wide ranging as simply turning on the radio.

CD

 

[SD]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

In article <d1ibgm02ped@news4.newsguy.com>,
Russ Button <russ@button.com> wrote:

> I was hanging out with a friend who's a
> loudspeaker designer/hobbyiest and he was playing Internet Radio over
> his Apple Mac laptop and damn if it didn't sound good! Who needs FM
> when they can listen to this! There's a gazillion stations to listen to
> and tons of stuff to choose from.

Internet radio has a long way to go until it can kill off
terrestrial FM. For one, there is the matter of that cable. Even if
you're accessing the Internet radio station on a wireless network,
there's still some pipe bringing that bandwidth into the building.
Wi-Fi isn't yet prevalent enough to let people connect outside, or
in every store or public place, etc.

Second, it _is_ a matter of bandwidth. I listen to a fair amount of
Internet radio on my Mac and the quality ranges from AM-mono to
really, really good, depending on the bandwidth and the station (not
all of them "broadcast" at the highest bandwidth levels).

Finally, there may be a shipload of Internet radio stations now, but
they're all competing for funding. Not all of them are likely to get
it (New Wave Klezmer, anyone?). Especially with growing competition
from Internet feeds of XM and Sirius (at least in the U.S.).

I like (and support) Internet radio. But I don't kid myself for a
moment that it will be taking over FM's role anytime soon.

sd

 

[chung]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

Codifus wrote:

> Russ Button wrote:
>> michael wrote:
>>
>>> In any case, the consumer market for traditional FM tuners may likely
>>> go the way of the compact cassette--something no one really cares
>>> about, anymore.
>>
>>
>> Like others here, I don't think that the iPod is the problem. Unlike
>> others, I don't think that the character of the material being broadcast
>> on FM is an issue either. Nope.
>>
>> FM is gonna go the way of the open reel tape deck just because it's
>> essentially obsolete. I was hanging out with a friend who's a
>> loudspeaker designer/hobbyiest and he was playing Internet Radio over
>> his Apple Mac laptop and damn if it didn't sound good! Who needs FM
>> when they can listen to this! There's a gazillion stations to listen to
>> and tons of stuff to choose from.
>>
>> My favorite FM station went off the air about 10 years ago. Radio
>> station KJAZ in the San Francisco area always had a great sense of what
>> swings. At least to my ear. The guys who ran that station are not
>> "broadcasting" on Shoutcast and it sounds pretty good!
>>
>> To get good FM sound, you need to do the whole persnickity analog thing.
>> Put up a roof mounted FM antenna, run good quality co-ax cable to a
>> quality FM tuner, and to judge from what we've been reading here, there
>> aren't any really good FM tuners being built any more. Those tuners
>> where really are good are 10 to 20 years old and are God-awful
>> expensive. Anyone price a Sequerra, Marantz 10B, McIntosh MR-71, etc
>> lately?
>>
>> It's only a matter of time before some enterprising fool comes up with a
>> dedicated Internet Radio gizmo. Geez. You could do it with a $300
>> used Dell laptop, Fedora Linux, the free RealAudio player, and a
>> broadband connection.
>>
>> Russ
> So true. I'd like to add that, things like the Ipod and any personal
> player could not possibly kill FM radio entirely because these formats
> address different needs. An ipod lets you play YOUR music. FM radio,
> like internet radio, broadcasts music to everyone and gives them the
> chance to discover new music they might like. How are you going to
> discover new music in an ipod? Sure, you can borrow someone elses
> playlists or download songs from the net, but its not as seamless and
> wide ranging as simply turning on the radio.
>
> CD

If the point is that the iPod reduces people's tendency to listen to
music on FM stations, then it might be a valid point for an increasing
large group of people. I have installed the connections in my cars so
that I can listen to my iPod through the car stereos, and that sounds
wonderful, much better than FM. I also find out that if I use the
Shuffle feature, then I do not know which song will be played next, and
it is sort of like listening to the radio.

I still listen to a FM station, though: the local NPR station. The real
threat to FM is the satellite radio stations (Sirius and XM Radio in the
US). I have XM, and I listen to it a lot, for music and other entertainment.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

>>>In any case, the consumer market for traditional FM tuners may
likely go the way of the compact cassette--something no one really
cares about, anymore.

The technology of FM radio isn't that bad, it's the content of FM radio
that is horrible. I've had an MP3 player in my car for almost two
years now. Every now and then, I'll try to listen to FM radio and it
is just awful, nothing but commercials and people yapping. An MP3
player is a little bit of work to set up but I find that I enjoy
setting up folders of one type of music or another. Now, my MP3
player is almost perfect for travel on an airplane or in my car. I've
got folders of everything I enjoy and I've got folders that my kids
like. It's like the perfect radio. When I want to listen to
something new, I surf the net, looking for downloads.

BTW, I have an Archos Gmini 200 which is significantly smaller and
cheaper than an iPod. It stores 20G and I bought it for $217. The
battery lasts five hours. It really does fit into a shirt pocket.
Check this out:

http/www6.tomshardware.com/mobile/20041230/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

"sd" <sd55117@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d1kbhu01ia7@news3.newsguy.com...
> In article <d1ibgm02ped@news4.newsguy.com>,
> Russ Button <russ@button.com> wrote:
>
>> I was hanging out with a friend who's a
>> loudspeaker designer/hobbyiest and he was playing Internet Radio over
>> his Apple Mac laptop and damn if it didn't sound good! Who needs FM
>> when they can listen to this! There's a gazillion stations to listen to
>> and tons of stuff to choose from.
>
> Internet radio has a long way to go until it can kill off
> terrestrial FM. For one, there is the matter of that cable. Even if
> you're accessing the Internet radio station on a wireless network,
> there's still some pipe bringing that bandwidth into the building.
> Wi-Fi isn't yet prevalent enough to let people connect outside, or
> in every store or public place, etc.
>
> Second, it _is_ a matter of bandwidth. I listen to a fair amount of
> Internet radio on my Mac and the quality ranges from AM-mono to
> really, really good, depending on the bandwidth and the station (not
> all of them "broadcast" at the highest bandwidth levels).
>
> Finally, there may be a shipload of Internet radio stations now, but
> they're all competing for funding. Not all of them are likely to get
> it (New Wave Klezmer, anyone?). Especially with growing competition
> from Internet feeds of XM and Sirius (at least in the U.S.).
>
> I like (and support) Internet radio. But I don't kid myself for a
> moment that it will be taking over FM's role anytime soon.

How does HD radio fit into this picture? I understand it's a digital signal
riding on the existing analog signal. At the moment, it seems that the
prices are too high for the average consumer, but maybe in the future?

Norm