General Laptop Advice From An Old Pro.

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Avro Arrow

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I appreciate the vote of confidence, thank you! I'm glad that I'm not the only honest salesman in the computer retail segment. :sol:
 

Avro Arrow

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Well the good news is that Adobe CS5 is not the hardware torture device that Crysis and GTA are but it still needs some decent hardware to run flawlessly. I'd recommend an AMD Quad-Core (Athlon II or Phenom II) and at least a Mobility Radeon HD 5650. I think that is all you'll need performance-wise.

One other thing, Silver and Diamond = Marketing Gimmick that has no real value. :sol:
 

Avro Arrow

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That really depends on the complexity of the calculations. Even high-level algebraic algorithms are easily handled by all x86 CPUs. That is what they were built for and it's what they do on a near-constant basis when they're running a program of any kind. You don't need something super-powerful. Having said that, yes, the graphics processor has no bearing on this although God only knows what you'll want to do with it in the future. :sol:
 

Avro Arrow

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I'm sure that refurbished laptops are just fine in most cases. They do however have a much higher instance rate of problems and failure than brand-new ones. I had purchased 2 refurb laptops before I purchased the one that I have and they both had problems. One had an "M" key that didn't work and the other had a short-circuit in the charging system. As for off-lease, I wouldn't touch them. They are typically old and slow with small hard drives and very little RAM by today's standards and are just not worth what the sellers are asking for them. Unless the difference in price is massive, get a brand-new one. They at least have the full 1-year warranty. :sol:
 

Avro Arrow

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The Lenovo y560p actually has a semi-decent graphics engine. The Mobility Radeon HD 6570 is a bit weak but should be able to handle most games on a laptop-sized screen at medium settings but I would say that's the most it can handle. The reason is that ATi's numbering system isn't as straightforward as some people believe. Here's how it works:

Mobility Radeon HD 6570:

Mobility - Special notebook/netbook series of GPUs meant for low power operation instead of performance
Radeon - ATi's current chip architecture / Brand name
HD - ATi's current GPU family
6 - Generation level (indicating die size in nanometres and DirectX version compatibility)
5 - GPU Performance level (What this card was designed for)
7 - Rank in that generation in that performance level
0 - means nothing at all

The most important numbers are the first two, but the SECOND number is more important than the first. The first number says that this GPU is based on the 32nm die process and fully supports DirectX11. The second number indicates what this card is intended to do. That's why it's the most important. For instance, a Radeon HD 5770 cannot match the sheer horsepower of the Radeon HD 4870 or HD 4890 but it comes close (to the 4870) and it easily beats the 4770.Here's the list:

9 - Ultimate performance 3D gaming (HD 5970)
8 - Enthusiast performance 3D gaming (HD 4870)
7 - Special design / High performance 3D gaming (HD 4770)
6 - Budget performance 3D gaming (HD 6670)
5 - Low-mid power 3D gaming (HD 4570)
4 - High-performance HD Video and low-power 3D gaming (new games) (HD 5450)
3 - HD Video and low-power 3D gaming (older games)
2 - Basic laptop performance (Office applications, online games, HD Video)

Now this is not all set in stone because some games have lower requirements than others. Most online games keep their requirements low so that a greater number of people can play them, like World of Warcraft. Generally, even the ATi Radeon X1200 in my laptop will play online games like SecondLife, World of Warcraft and Star Wars Galaxies. I even managed to get it to play Star Trek Online but it was noticeably slower than my 2 x ATi Radeon HD 4870 desktop gaming monster. Generally speaking, getting a high-level GPU in a laptop is a waste because it's expensive and the screen is too small to really see all the graphics detail that high settings affords you. In addition to that, 1600x900 is generally the best resolution you can get on a laptop and the overwhelming majority of them don't even go that high. My laptop's max resolution is 1200x800 and that's probably one of the reasons that my X1200 works so well. I can't set it high enough to really push it. Having said that, the resolution is still fantastic and I will never complain about it. I would say that the Lenovo Ideapad Y560p will give you an excellent and enjoyable gaming experience within your specified budget. It's a good deal and I think you'll be happy with it. I will say however that I think you'd be just as happy with an Athlon II or Phenom II based laptop with the same graphics and you might save some money on it because as AMD is releasing the Llano mobile and Zambezi desktop (Bulldozer FX) architectures, those CPUs will drop in price and give you a wickedly fast laptop with great graphics performance for even less money. I'm sorry to take so long to respond and I know that this is probably too late but I felt I owed it to you to give you an answer. If you went ahead and bought the Y560p, I know that you won't be disappointed. :sol:
 

dekabal

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Like everyone has said, really great post. It should be stickied. Anyway, I had a few questions as I am trying to purchase a laptop for myslef after using an old inspiron from 2003 that died last year. I do game a bit but only steam and indie stuff and I do do a bit of coding but i'm looking for botha personal laptop and something for school work (not really taking it to class much, prefer pencil and paper for notes).

1. What is your opinion on the macbook pro 13 (if price didn't matter)?

2. How do you think the new Dell Xps 15 compares to the new HP Dv6t quad in terms of performance and design (keyboards, looks, ergonomics, etc.)

3. What is your personal favorite laptop from what you have seen this year? :D
 

Avro Arrow

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Thanks for the compliment and the questions Dekabal. :hello:

1. Unfortunately, I have very little experience using Macs so I can't really give you a good answer to whether or not I think that a macbook is a good buy. I tried using a mac once and was really annoyed by its GUI but I've been using Windows since Windows 3.0 (back in the MS-DOS days) and so I'm a bit hard-wired to it. I can say that there's nothing that I've wanted to do that I haven't been able to do with a PC (Windows) computer so I would say that macbooks just aren't worth it, especially since viruses for macs are appearing (I knew it would happen sooner or later) and that makes a serious dent in what used to be their greatest advantage. I also don't like how Apple uses completely proprietary designs to ensure that you are denied use of the open and generally free-form PC hardware market. I generally avoid ANYTHING with an Apple symbol on it because I know I can get more for my money from their competitors in every situation.

2. These two laptops don't really compare because the XPS 15 has so many different configurations. The HP Dv6t is an i7 sandy-bridge with an ATi Mobility Radeon HD 6570 which will give you all the performance you could possibly need. Both of these machines absolutely CRUSH the macbook performance-wise and I'm sure that they cost the same or less than the Apple. The ergonomics seem to be comparable and I loathe to compare appearance and ergonomics because those are personal preferences with no wrong answer. Try out some display models and see which one appeals to you. All I can do is make recommendations based upon hard facts like performance, price and power usage.

3. To give you my favourite laptop this year would be very difficult because of course, laptops get better when one takes price into account and appearance/ergonomics are so subjective so I'll show you my picks for laptops sold on newegg.ca at specific price points and I'll explain why. I'll only include 15" laptops because that is overwhelmingly the most popular size. I hope that helps you. :sol:

Under $500CAD (This is the price point that will meet the needs of 90% of the population):

Toshiba Satellite C650D-06Q $440
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834214294CVF
I chose this one because it was the fastest AMD-based laptop under $500 and considerably so. Now, I know that the Intel P6200 in the same price category is about 15%-20% faster but as with all Intel-based notebooks at this price point, they are hampered by that Albatross around their necks, the Intel GMA-series GPU. It's a horrible GPU and I would recommend it to NOBODY when the ATi Mobility Radeon HD 4250/4270 can be had in the same price category. Intel graphics do not ensure compatibility because not all games are compatible with them. With ATi, it's quite the opposite because game developers go out of their way to ensure that their games are compatible with the two gaming megaplayers, namely ATi and nVidia. (I refuse to refer to ATi as AMD, call it Canadian patriotic fervour..lol) So while the AMD-based laptop might do things a bit slower (not really noticeable) it can do EVERYTHING that the Intel-based laptop can, but there are many graphic-intensive applications that the AMD-based laptop can do that the Intel-based laptop cannot do regardless of CPU speed. That makes the At this price point, hard drives and RAM are all close and 3GB RAM with a 320GB hard drive is right in the middle of everything. This would be ideal for students and for most people looking to buy a laptop for home use. It is powerful enough for light gaming and is definitely priced right.

Honourable Mention:
Dell Inspiron M5030 - $400
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834200058
About 100MHz slower than the Toshiba but it's on sale, making it the best value but only while the sale lasts because it's normally $30 more than the Toshiba. All specs between it and the Toshiba are otherwise identical. While the sale is on, this is the better deal at this price point.


$500-$750CAD:

WINNER:

MSI FX620DX-256 - $735
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834152264
An outstanding buy because of its wickedly-fast i5-2410M and equally impressive nVidia GeForce GT 540M. All others in the same price category cannot match its overall power.

Honourable Mention:
MSI FX610-034 - $655
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834152257
Doesn't match the FX620DX-256US in CPU or GPU overall power but is $80 less expensive and is the least expensive laptop with a quad-core CPU under the hood and still has an improved GPU. For many who use programs that require 4 cores or engage in heavy multitasking and are on a budget, this laptop would be very attractive.


$750-$1000CAD:

WINNER:
ASUS N53SV-XE1 - $873
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834230004
The $750-$1000 segment is chock-full of items of with extremely bad value. In many cases, the MSI FX620DX-256 still beats them. The ASUS N53SV-XE1 is a different matter however. It retains the powerful nVidia GT 540M GPU but at its heart is the Sandy-Bridge i7 2630Q. This is one SERIOUS machine.

Honourable Mention:
None, this price point generally sucks.


$1000-$1250CAD:

WINNER:
ASUS G53JW-XN1 - $1,170
The i7-740QM is Nehalem-based which means it's powerful as hell but the story here is the GPU. The GTX 460M is one of the most powerful mobile GPUs available today. This means that serious gaming is what this machine was designed for.

Honourable Mention:
Lenovo T510 - $1200
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834146925CVF
The Lenovo T510 is a great value for a mobile graphics workstation with its nVidia Quadro NVS 3100M GPU.

Above this price point, nothing really caught my eye. There are no huge hardware improvements in the 15" size that justify the price increases. I hope this long post gives you the information you seek. :sol:
 

musical marv

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You see do not drain the battery all the way what about the battery in the Apple Laptops? what is your expertise knowledge about this?
 

Avro Arrow

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It's not about whether it's an Apple battery or not, it just matters if it's a lithium-ion battery or not. If you check the link, it's about lithium-ion batteries in general, not about who makes them or what they are used for. :sol:

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
 

sasharkv

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Thanks for the great read Avro.. you've saved me from investing 2000+ dollars on the new xps 15z with SSD!

Is it worth upgrading my system or buying a completely new one?

AMD Phenom(tm) 8400 Triple-Core Processor

ATI Radeon 2100

3 GB DDR2 DDR2 PC2-6400

Acer Motherboard RS740DVF

WDC WD3200AAJS-22B4A0 ATA Device


I'd like to use it for heavy photoshop work and perhaps play SC2 once in a blue moon.

Thanks!
 

Avro Arrow

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I appreciate the feedback and I'm glad that this thread made a positive difference for you. Your laptop is a bit of a contradiction because while the Phenom triple-core will be a powerful and useful CPU for years to come, I am not certain that the rather primitive Radeon 2100 will be able to handle Starcraft 2. You're fine with the photoshop work as Radeons have fantastic colour palettes and Starcraft 2 is by far the most demanding program you will run on that laptop. I would recommend trying SC2 on your current machine and if it works to your satisfaction, great! If not, then I would recommend the Acer Aspire AS5552G-7641 which sells at newegg.com for $650. That machine is a bit of a beast with a Phenom II Quad-Core and a Mobility Radeon HD 6650. That would certainly be able to handle SC2. There is a possibility that the machine you have now has enough CPU power to back up the relatively weak GPU and will be able to run SC2 just fine as it is. In this case, the old saying "Try before you buy" is of considerable value. Here's the link to the Acer I was talking about:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834215037
I hope this helps you out and again, I'm glad I was able to make a positive difference. That's why I started the thread and it's very satisfying to me to know that I've helped someone. Cheers! :sol:

BTW, if your system is a desktop, I would simply throw in a video card like a Radeon HD 5770 and you'll be laughing. Just make sure you have a power supply that can support it.
 

sasharkv

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Oh sorry man, that's my PC! :D

I tried running SC2 but it only worked with the lowest settings. It even shows a load icon to open a picture in windows picture viewer lol!

I'm thinking if I change

a) my video card to something like this:
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4111742&csid=_21
(I only have a PCI-E x1 not the 2.0)

b) change my memory (they are 400mhz) to 4-8 GB of DDR2 800mhz

I'm a little worried that my cpu speed is only 2.1GHz per core and that they recommend more for SC.

Any recommendations for the specs would be appreciated. BTW I'm in Canada so I deal with Tigerdirect or newegg.ca

Will this turn my system into a liable beast?
 

trogdor796

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Wow. I need a laptop for school this fall so I'm glad I found this thread! I am actually pretty knowledgeable about computer hardware, but mainly with desktops since I've never owned a laptop. I figured I'd ask for some advice before I make a purchase. I plan on going to school for computer networking, so I was thinking this may involve somewhat demanding applications. I just got back from a college interview/tour actually, and I asked about how powerful a laptop is required. They actually provide computers for your core-classes(like the networking ones), but I will still need a laptop for generals and doing networking homework at home. He said they do virtualization, but the requirements aren't a whole lot. A multi-core processor(an i5 for virtualizatioj purposes since i3 can't do it), 4GB Ram that can later be expanded to 8. That's about it.

I should also point out that I have a desktop at home which I currently use for games, but I could use it for homework in the networking classes if need be. Its specs are:
-E6600@3.00Ghz
-4GB DDR2(Only 3 usable due to 32-bit)
-500GB HDD
-4870 512mb
-22" 1680x1050

Yeah, it needs upgrading, but I plan to do that soon. So I need a laptop to get me through school. At first my budget was $1000, but after reading this and further thought, I don't think I'll need that much. I would only like to play games like World of Warcraft, maybe newer ones but that's what my desktop is for. So if it can run games like WoW at medium/high that's fine. I know you said brands really don't matter, but I have honestly had horrible experience with certain brands and excellent with others. My parents own a Dell Desktop that always has problems, and we have an HP printer that constantly refuses to print things and rarely works. Sony has really never let me down with tv's and game systems. So I was thinking of going with this: http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs...52921666302244&categoryId=8198552921644784024
What are your opinions? If there are other deals out there please share them. I am trying to make the best purchase possible. Thanks for reading.
 

Avro Arrow

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I'm in Canada too (as I said I worked for tigerdirect.ca) and I can say that this card will not make your computer into a beast but it will make SC2 run far better. If SC2 runs on low settings for you now, the 9500 GT will make it run way faster. Don't bother changing your RAM because the difference will be tiny. I'd say that the 9500 GT would be all you need to run SC2. :sol:
 

Avro Arrow

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The horrible experiences you've had are both typical and atypical of all brands. I've heard just as many horror stories about Sony Vaios as all other laptops. I also know that they cost an arm and a leg to repair so I'd steer clear of Sony if I were you. One thing you said that confused me is that your school is going to provide the computers for the machine virtualization but you still need to do it on your laptop? Please elaborate on that because at this point, I'm not sure that you have to be able to do virtualization or not so I cannot give you a proper answer for your question.
 

trogdor796

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Well, they will have machines on campus that will be able to do the things like virtualization, but I will likely need to do some of this stuff off-campus for homework, meaning the laptop I get should be able to handle it. Sorry about the confusion there. Yes, I do realize Sony Vaios are a bit more expensive. But imo they have some of the best looks of laptops, up there with mac-books(hate ma-cbooks, but they look nice). With a brand like Sager, I know I may get more performance for $, but their laptops just looks so plain IMO. Sorry if I sound picky, its just that having a laptop that looks nice is somewhat important to me as I need it to last at least 2 years. However, I just heard from someone that the school I'm looking to attend forces you to buy one of their laptops and use it, so this may all be in vain! I hope I get to use my own, but I'm going to check in with the school and get an official word.
 

Avro Arrow

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Well, I would say that there's little you need to do to upgrade your gaming system. The mighty HD 4870 is still a beast and outperforms all vidcards at or below the hd 5770 mark. I personally still use them (although I have 2 crossfired because newegg had them on sale for $100 and I couldn't say no to a second one at that price...lol) Remember, don't upgrade because that seems to be the trendy thing to do. Only upgrade when you feel that your performance is lacking. That CPU is overclocked to a great speed and the Core 2 architecture still games very nicely. I'll look around and see if I can't find a good deal for you on a laptop that is pretty. Usually I find that Acer's Gateway line are gorgeous machines (you pay for it, but not as much as for a Sony) and Acer makes great laptops. My cheap and primitive 15.4" eMachines E620 that I'm typing on right now is almost 2 years old and still works perfectly is really an Acer Aspire 5515 but costs less because it's branded as eMachines. Brand really can make a difference if you take the "cheap" one because the features are usually the same as the "upper trim" model. Kind of like buying a fully-loaded Toyota Camry instead of a Lexus ES 300....lol
 

trogdor796

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Thanks for the reply! Yes, my system is decent, and the 4870 still serves me very well. Games that utilize more than 2 cores are what give me a little slow down(mainly Bad Company 2 and likely Battlefield 3 this fall), so a quad core would be nice. But yeah with the speed my cpu is running at currently most games run on high fine. I just feel soon I will need a quad core for games like Battlefield 3. Perhaps I'll just wait and see what bulldozer has to offer. My system is fine for now. I'll keep looking at laptops as well. Let me know if you find anything. Once again, thanks for all the help!