General Laptop Advice From An Old Pro.

[Avro Arrow]

Thanks very much for the comments (and video), which I find quite helpful. I am shopping for a new laptop, and have pretty much decided on a desktop replacement. 95-98% of the time my computer stays on my desktop; but I do web designing, and occasionally like to take my computer to my customers' locations. So having a measure of portability is an important factor, and I don't really like the idea of having two computers.

Basically I love AMD. I happen to think that Jerry Sanders is one of the great men of our time. IMHO AMD is all that keeps Intel focussed on consumers' needs--and without it, we'd all be paying $4000+ for our laptops. AMD has worked miracles in keeping up as well as it has against much better financed competition. But, having said all of that, I must say that I've had two AMD chips burn out on me, and have never had a problem with an Intel chip. Granted that was some time ago, and maybe the llano chips are better, but I'm not sure I want to bet the farm on it.

Most of the people I know don't use a computer for anything more strenuous than surfing the net, reading their email, and word processing. I keep preaching to them that they don't really need much of a computer to do those things. I have even suggested to some of them that they get a REALLY CHEAP CRAPPY desktop computer from the Salvation Army and experiment and abuse the Hell out of it--it is a very cheap way to learn about computers. Even though I am a Windows person, I also tell many of them to get a Mac if they can afford it. There are fewer hassles: the Mac OS is more stable, and they don't have to worry much about malware. Almost always, they disregard my advice. Most of them want something brand new, and they can usually find a Windows computer for a lot less money at places like Best Buy.

I have a friend who falls into the above category. He is currently running an old home-built desktop computer with an AMD Athlon chip and built-in graphics. It seems like every week he calls me up to say "Help! My computer isn't running!" Last week he got a nasty virus on his computer that redirected his browser (Firefox) to some Chinese site. I went over to find that his AV program had long since expired, and he hadn't run a scan for months in any case. I put in a trial version of Kaspersky, ran a scan, and fixed the problem. I also told him that I'd be over at least once a week to keep his AV updated, and run a scan. Then he called again, equally frantic. It seems that Outlook Express had "lost" most of his emails. I went over and (somehow!) found a way to fix that problem. I also INSISTED that he get an 8gb flash memory stick to back up all of his data (it only cost $9.95 at Office Depot). A day later, he called again (this time at 10 PM as I was getting ready to go to bed). His computer would freeze up whenever he tried to start it. I don't really know what caused that problem, but when I started the computer up in safe mode and ran a system restore, it seemed to work OK. That's where things stand at the moment. If he had a Mac, I don't think any of this would have happened! What did I get for all this technical support? Two lousy packs of cigarettes!!

You're right, there was a period where AMD processors ran way too hot. Most recently, that was seen with high-end Phenom I processors but even that was rare. The most common AMD burnouts were Athlon64's that ran at clock speeds that were really too high because AMD wanted to try to counteract Intel's FUD marketing that clock speed was all-important (which you and I both know is pure BS). I've had an AMD Athlon 64 2650e and a Phenom II X4 940 in the past and I'll tell you that both of those chips are bulletproof. I still have my Phenom II X4 940 in the box because I only changed it to accomdate my new Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3 motherboard. The Phenom II X4 940 is an AM2+ CPU and won't work in an AM3/AM3+ motherboard like my Gigabyte. Truth be told, I only bought it in anticipaton of bulldozer but unfortunately, we all know what happened there. Canada Computers had an open-box Phenom II X4 965 so I bought that instead. It was painful having a USB3/SATA6 motherboard with 16GB of DDR3 RAM just sitting there unused. I still have the motherboard and 8GB of OCZ Reaper HPC DDR2-800 so I'll probably make another PC out of it and use it as a second machine. I already have a P4 fileserver so I certainly don't need it for that. That 940 has seen almost 4 years of use and has never given me a problem. Hell, I never even felt the need to OC. The 965 is a stepping stone because I needed an AM3 CPU to flash the BIOS to support Bulldozer/Piledriver and a Sempron 140 seemed like a complete waste of money at half the price of the 965. The Llano uses that very same bulletproof Stars architecture from the Phenom II / Athlon II. It lacks the Phenom II's L3 cache so it's essentially a 32nm Athlon II X4 (with TurboCore) with an on-die Mobility Radeon HD 6620G. As previously stated, I can play Skyrim on it (and I did on a stormy day when I was in Cuba). The battery life is incredible as that APU literally sips juice and I've seen over 4 hours of internet use / video playback and over 2 solid hours playing Skyrim. For $500, you really can't go wrong with the A8-3500M. While I wouldn't recommend Llano for a desktop because it seems a bit pricey, for the laptop market, it really can't be beat for all-around computer use at its price-point. I mean seriously, a Quad-Core CPU with a mid-range Mobility Radeon that has incredible battery life, Xbox 360 / PS3 - level gaming performance and flawless multimedia capabilities like perfect HD playback with an HDMI-out for $500? It is literally a laptop shopper's wet dream.

As for your friend...
I'll be perfectly honest with you. If I had a nickel for everytime some computer-illiterate computer owner had a mysterious "problem" with their computer that I NEVER get, I'd have retired by now. The fact is that people like him will have problems with their computers no matter what they get because they do irresponsible things like not renewing their virus protection or clicking on popups. Funny how I use AVG free and SpyBot Search and Destroy and I NEVER get viruses. Your friend most likely did something really stupid and that's why he's having problems. He'd probably do stupid things on his Mac as well, the only difference being that he'd be in the poorhouse and would have to call Apple for support instead of you. Macs are generally made for tech morons and as long as he doesn't game, he does fit that market. Personally, I break out in a rash whenever ANY Apple product is in close proximity.

You and I are probably both very aware that hardware has far outpaced software as far as processing power vs. processing requirements are concerned in 99% of cases today and the multimedia capabilities, price and battery life of a laptop are emerging as the new critical criteria for laptop owners. Anyone who doubts this should remember that the relatively weak Brazos/Bobcat APU platform that preceded Llano has been AMD's biggest success in their entire history. Llano will most likely reap similar accolades as it is the new darling of OEM manufacturers who seem to loathe descrete video cards but want to advertise their "brand-in-a-box" crap as gaming machines. Llano at least allows them to be something other than outright liars in that regard, even for desktops.

I work in Auto Parts and the people I work with were admiring my new Acer. In fact, 2 people went out and bought one immediately based solely on my recommendation. They know I'm a techie and they know that I use computers for far more intricate tasks than they do. The two people that bought them crow about how great they are and how they can do things on their laptops that their friends and family who sometimes spent more on Intel-based systems can't do simply because of the power of the Mobility Radeon HD 6620G compared to the horrible (in comparison) Intel HD 3000 series included with the i3. In case you're wondering, I'll give you the info on my laptop:

Here's a picture of it:

Make: Acer
Model: Aspire 5560-sb401
CPU/GPU (APU): AMD A8-3500M with a Mobility Radeon HD 6620G on-die
RAM: 4GB DDR3-1333
HD: Toshiba MK6459GSXP 640GB SATA3
Display: LED-backlit 15.6", 16:9, 1366x768, 60Hz
I/O ports: HDMI, D-Sub(VGA), Mic, Headphone, USB 2.0 (x3), Gigabit Ethernet
Other: DVD-RW Super-Multi, built-in mic, webcam, remarkably loud speakers
OS: Windows 7 Home Premium x64

It currently sells at NCIX for $530CAD.
http/ncix.com/products/?sku=64514&vpn=LX.RNW02.028&manufacture=Acer
I don't know if it's available in the USA as sometimes Acer's products are country-specific. As I have said before, look for the spec and the price because the brand won't really matter.

 

[Avro Arrow]

I need to run Computer aided Design and Computer aided Programming (CNC Machine G code generators) software for my Manufacturing consulting business. For example AutoCad and Virtual Gibbs. I recently leased a Dell i3 2GB ram and it could not handle it. Please advise. Do I need a high end gamer machine? info@completecncsolutions.com My name is John

John, if you use AutoCad, I would really recommend a laptop with a FirePro or Quadro GPU. A gaming GPU might work just fine but it's not really designed for that while a FirePro or Quadro will be. Cbrunnem is 100% correct in his assertion that 2GB of RAM is grossly insufficient I would also chime in that the i3 with its painfully-malfuntional Intel graphics is insufficient for modern games, nevermind advanced graphics algorithms such as those used in AutoCad. It's like trying to tow an airstream trailer with a 4-cylinder Tacoma instead of a V8 Tundra. I don't know what kind of moron was willing to sell you an i3 with 2GB of RAM for your needs but he/she would be more suited to selling pencils on a street corner. But I digress, Dell was never known for hiring intelligent salespeople (hell, I'm not sure that any of the "brand-in-a-box" manufacturers are good in this regard). I don't know exactly how complex your AutoCad designs are. If they are relatively simple, then the A8 will probably do just fine. My guess is that for CNC, they probably are simple because they are most likely immobile 3D designs as opposed to the incredibly complex algorithms used in gaming engines for motion, textures and facial expressions. I'll be the first to admit however that I am not very well versed in your field and so I can only give general guidelines. I can say for certain however that ANYTHING even remotely graphics-based will be severely hampered by ANY Intel GPU and 4GB of RAM should be the MINIMUM for any system meeting your requirements that runs Windows 7. My gut feeling is that an A8-based laptop like mine will serve your purposes perfectly, have good portability (my laptop is about 3cm thick when closed), be attractively priced and have amazing batter life.

 

[Avro Arrow]

This post is silly. Brand doesn't matter? Hirarious. Keeping your devices on a charger all the time will make the Li-Ion battery's effectively immortal? Ridikulus.

I've fixed plenty of computers, both desktops and laptops. Many of them were Acer's and quite a few were Dells. The Compaq's were never repairable, and the HP's only sometimes so. But I've only ever had to fix one Toshiba (some of their earlier models had a problem with the display cable shorting out, simply replacing the damaged part fixed the issue).

Heck, just disassembling the things will give you a good idea of the build quality and the engineering put into them. Also, no, the manufacturers don't buy their designs from China. Acer might, since their stuff constantly breaks, but I highly doubt Toshiba or Dell do. Though Dell's used to break quite often in the earlier days, more recent designs have proven more resilient. The layout of the components is quite logical compared to an Acer. As for Compaq, my sister had one who's PCI-e bus failed. It was a common problem on all compaqs made that year which reared it's ugly head around the third year of consistent use. A year after the warranty went out. That said, I'm still no fan of Dell. Toshiba's have proven to have the best track record for me, and I know many people who are satisfied customers of ASUS.

Also, you might want to take Apple products into account here. They are very much PC's in every sense of the word. They can run Windows and Linux just like every other laptop out there. And, like many other manufacturers, they design their products in-house and have them built in China. Apple is able to achieve such a high level of quality in spite of out-sourcing to China because, contrary to popular belief, China is capable of quite high levels of quality control. The only problem is, that unless you're a really big customer (like Apple), they won't care too much about your requests in regards to quality control.

Brand matters very much so because the quality control for each brand's products varies between brands. The core components may be the same, but the design of the PCB's and the choice in quality of passive and supportive active components makes a big difference.

Yes, I've encontered many nay-sayers who are laptop techs but laptop techs are like mechanics, they know how to fix them without necessarily understanding everything about them (Kind of like a mechanic thinking that he knows more about oil than a Petrochemical Engineer). Here is where I got my information about the triviality of brand-names:
"Established in 1988, QUANTA is well known for its quality and design in manufacturing laptop computer. As the world's largest laptop ODM manufacturer, one out of every three laptop PC in the world is manufactured by QUANTA. That's why all the top ten PC companies in the world have chosen Quanta as their ODM partner."
http/www.quantatw.com/Quanta/english/product/qci_nb.aspx
Please note the ONE IN THREE. No laptop maker has that great a command of the market, that means they most likely all use Quanta. There is more evidence to support this, if you'll pardon my use of wikipedia:
"Quanta Computer Incorporated is a Taiwan-based manufacturer of notebook computers and other electronic hardware. It is the largest manufacturer of notebook computers in the world. Its customers include Apple Inc., Compaq, Dell, Gateway, Hewlett-Packard,[2] Alienware, Amazon.com, Casper, Cisco, Fujitsu, Gericom, Lenovo, LG, Maxdata, MPC, Research In Motion, Sharp Corporation, Siemens AG, Sony, Sun Microsystems, and Toshiba."
http/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quanta_Computer
I think that this information comes from much higher-end sources than a C-plus certified laptop tech, no offence.

If you want some evidence to back this up, take a look at some of Square Trade's observations of their 3rd party warranty business. In terms of how often problems occur in their products, and the general longevity of said products, Square Trade found out that Asus, Sony Vaio, Toshiba, and Apple were (in that order) the highest-quality brands their customers purchased.

Since you didn't provide a link, I'll do it for you:
http/www.squaretrade.com/htm/pdf/SquareTrade_laptop_reliability_1109.pdf
As I had said to a previous poster, that's what THEIR experience is.
PC World has a different opinion:
http/www.pcworld.com/article/211402/reliability_and_service_laptops.html
LaptopMag is different yet again:
http/www.laptopmag.com/mobile-life/best-brands-overall-verdict-2011.aspx
Square Trade ranked ASUS as #1, with Apple as #4, Dell as #5, Acer/Gateway as 7/8 and HP dead last. (I say Acer/Gateway because they're the same company)
PC World ranked Apple as #1, with ASUS as #2, Acer as #5, HP for business beating Lenovo and Dell for business and home both at the bottom near Gateway.
Laptopmag has Apple as #1, Lenovo as #2, HP as #3, Sony as #4, tied with Toshiba, Sony at #5, etc.

As you can see, the ratings are rather arbitrary and I might point out that Square Trade is the LEAST comprehensive of the lists with the fewest brands featured, yet this is the only one you looked at. And you call my post silly? FOR SHAME!

If you want to be cheap and only pay $500 for your Core i7 laptop with 8GB of RAM and a 750GB HDD, go ahead. But don't expect it to last you more than three or four years at best. As for my friend who spent $4k on his Macbook Pro (personally I think that's a bit overkill, but I digress), he's basically gotten an entirely new laptop out of it thanks to Apple's wonderful warranty program. The only reason the parts on his laptop failed (motherboard, DVD drive, battery) was because he used the hell out of that thing. He's an IT guy, and at a couple points in time, he used the laptop as a temporary server during OS upgrades and migrations. He got the Laptop in 2008, so the warranty just went out last year, but he's been easier on it lately since he doesn't need to rely on it so much. Even so, he still uses it daily, and will likely continue to do so for another two years or so. 5-7 years for a $4000 laptop? Not bad at all. Though you could also spend $1200-$1500 on a really nice Asus and have it last nearly as long. Though the warranty program isn't anywhere near as good as Apples. That's another thing. When you buy a laptop, you're also buying the service of the company who designed it. Now, you can either buy something from Acer and deal with their wonderful tech support who lives in India and barely speaks english, or you can buy something from Apple and deal with their tech support who lives in California and speaks english perfectly. Though I suppose it doesn't matter since "all brands are the same" and therefor their tech support is too. Hah.

Did you just say "hah"? That's rather infantile but if it makes you feel like a big man, ooook. Anyway for what Apple charges for the specs they offer, they had BETTER have a great tech support and warranty program. They are more or less double the price. As we know, the rest all essentially suck. Again, brand doesn't matter (unless you pay Apple's exorbitant prices).

As for batteries, it's a commonly accepted notion that over charging a Li-Ion/Li-Poly battery is just as bad as running it dry, The key to long battery life is charging consistently but in moderation. For phones, it's usually best to charge them over night. However, there's no sense in charging it while your at your desk at work, as that will merely stress the battery unnecessarily.

Thanks but I don't deal in commonly accepted notions, I deal in facts. The fact is that a laptop power supply will NOT overcharge a battery if said power supply is functioning properly. Again, I prefer to ask people who specialise in BATTERIES and BATTERY DESIGN rather than some guy who sits at a counter and pulls laptops apart because they're going to know more about batteries than he will, just like I'd prefer to ask a Petrochemical engineer about the properties of motor oil than some mechanic who turns a wrench for a living. I posted a link about it already but since you obviously didn't read it, here it is again:
http/batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Here's more:
http/www.buchmann.ca/Chap10-page6.asp
I don't take any personal offence to naysayers but I do ask that you back up your words with sources like I do. I hate having FUD in my thread and that's more or less what you were throwing around. You were also trolling by calling a post that has helped many people silly and "ridikulus" and also the rather combative "Hah" somewhere in your post. I've succesfully countered everything you've said but unlike you, I did it with considerably more grace and tact than you did. Keep in mind I've been building PCs since I was 12 with my first 286-16 build. You probably weren't out of diapers yet judging by the grammar you use and the rather immature posturing you have in your post. Much to learn you still have, young Padawan.

 

[Avro Arrow]

Hi,
Thanks for your info. it's good to here there really isn't a huge difference between the brands as long as you compare their features.
My mother wants to buy my son (10 yrs old) a laptop to use at home. He has a small desk area to use. It will be plugged in usually, but may be taken elsewhere sometimes. He only does gaming on his Wii or Nintendo Gameboy or DSi. We don't have the funds to start buying additional games for the computer, so he'd probably get a new gaming computer when he gets older and if he really is into gaming. Right now he's 10, and needs to use the internet, and write homework assignments. Can you recommend a couple laptops for under $500.00 and a retailer? I've bought things from Tiger Direct before and Newegg, as well as retail stores in NJ.
Thanks in advance,
Denise T.

If you're looking at something like that, the AMD E-series would do the job as well as the Llano-based A6. Don't expect a powerhouse laptop in that price range but both of those APUs have the all-important Mobility Radeon graphics processor that will ensure smooth multimedia (video) playback with the A6 even having perfect HD playback. Intel machines will have Intel graphics which have never worked properly in their entire history.

 

[iris3323]

If anyone finds this useful, please say so. I'd hate to think I spent all this time for nothing! LOL

Your opinion has been invaluable to me. I had thought that my desktop could be fully substituted for any of those new, powerful laptops.... and, after reading your words, I am thinking of buying a reasonable refurished laptop, good for using with Office, and a good desktop...
Thank you very much

 

[chudddds]

If anyone finds this useful, please say so. I'd hate to think I spent all this time for nothing! LOL

Quanta used to sell laptops with their name on them also. I had one in the PI about 10 years ago. I have met their reps, they do indeed manufacture just about all laptops on planet earth.

You mentioned that laptops were not upgradeable. That has completely changed nowadays !!!

Im currently on a 7 year old HP. It has dual HDD drive bays and it now sports and SSD and a 1 tb magnetic hdd.

however, it is getting ready to die, cpu fan is about shot and this thing is getting the burnt silicone smell.

looking for a new laptop, must be 17 in + and two hdd bays, without forfeiting the optical device,

i have my eyes and a dv7 series HP refurb from newegg for $499 , A6 3400 , 8gb ddr3

your thoughts ?

thanx

 

[Avro Arrow]

Your opinion has been invaluable to me. I had thought that my desktop could be fully substituted for any of those new, powerful laptops.... and, after reading your words, I am thinking of buying a reasonable refurished laptop, good for using with Office, and a good desktop...
Thank you very much

I would avoid refurbished laptops for 3 reasons. One is that I've had 2 of them and they both had problems from the getgo. Another is that they only have a 90-day warranty at best. The third reason is that you don't really save all that much. For what you want, I would recommend the following laptop, I can safely recommend it because it has more or less the same configuration as my computer:
http/www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1783479&CatId=4938
At $530, it's a great value and will work well for you for a long time.

 

[Avro Arrow]

Quanta used to sell laptops with their name on them also. I had one in the PI about 10 years ago. I have met their reps, they do indeed manufacture just about all laptops on planet earth.

You mentioned that laptops were not upgradeable. That has completely changed nowadays !!!

Im currently on a 7 year old HP. It has dual HDD drive bays and it now sports and SSD and a 1 tb magnetic hdd.

however, it is getting ready to die, cpu fan is about shot and this thing is getting the burnt silicone smell.

looking for a new laptop, must be 17 in + and two hdd bays, without forfeiting the optical device,

i have my eyes and a dv7 series HP refurb from newegg for $499 , A6 3400 , 8gb ddr3

your thoughts ?

thanx

I think that $500 for a refurbished A6 is not a good deal when you can have a brand-new A8-3500M for $530:
http/www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1783479&CatId=4938

Seven years ago, laptops were not mass-produced on the scale they are now and so 7 years was not out of the ordinary. I might also point out that the HP you have that lasted 7 years probably cost around $1500-$2000 so if you consider that a $500 laptop should last between 3 and 5 years, 7 years on a laptop like that isn't as good a deal as it sounds. I would recommend getting the laptop I linked you to and possibly upgrading the RAM after 2 years if you so desire. Having 8GB of RAM on a mid range (in this case, a low to mid range) laptop is a bit of a waste because if you were going to be doing anything that requires 8GB of RAM, you'd probably be looking at an i5 or i7 powerhouse. Try the A8 with the 4GB of RAM and add to it if you want to. I'm pretty sure that you won't feel the need for more RAM with the increased CPU and especially GPU power in the A8 and if you decide you do want 4 more GB then it only costs another $20:
http/www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6075371&CatId=4153
I recommended this one over the less expensive lenovo A6 with the dedicated 6500M because you're not going to be gaming with it a lot so the extra battery life that the 6620G gives will be more valuable than the extra power of the 6650M and you don't have to suffer with an Intel GPU with defective drivers causing scroll stutter, blue screens of death, etc.

 

[chudddds]

I think that $500 for a refurbished A6 is not a good deal when you can have a brand-new A8-3500M for $530:
http/www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1783479&CatId=4938

Seven years ago, laptops were not mass-produced on the scale they are now and so 7 years was not out of the ordinary. I might also point out that the HP you have that lasted 7 years probably cost around $1500-$2000 so if you consider that a $500 laptop should last between 3 and 5 years, 7 years on a laptop like that isn't as good a deal as it sounds. I would recommend getting the laptop I linked you to and possibly upgrading the RAM after 2 years if you so desire. Having 8GB of RAM on a mid range (in this case, a low to mid range) laptop is a bit of a waste because if you were going to be doing anything that requires 8GB of RAM, you'd probably be looking at an i5 or i7 powerhouse. Try the A8 with the 4GB of RAM and add to it if you want to. I'm pretty sure that you won't feel the need for more RAM with the increased CPU and especially GPU power in the A8 and if you decide you do want 4 more GB then it only costs another $20:
http/www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6075371&CatId=4153
I recommended this one over the less expensive lenovo A6 with the dedicated 6500M because you're not going to be gaming with it a lot so the extra battery life that the 6620G gives will be more valuable than the extra power of the 6650M and you don't have to suffer with an Intel GPU with defective drivers causing scroll stutter, blue screens of death, etc.

well, i asked about 17+ inch screen sizes with dual hdds, so the link to the 15.6 with a single hdd and not being a refurb doesnt make sense for my needs, but thanks for the reply anyways !!!

 

[Avro Arrow]

well, i asked about 17+ inch screen sizes with dual hdds, so the link to the 15.6 with a single hdd and not being a refurb doesnt make sense for my needs, but thanks for the reply anyways !!!

Oh jeez, you're 100% right, I hadn't noticed that when I searched and found it. That's a great deal if it holds together and yes, it will work great for you. Sorry about that, had a brain fart. It happens. LOL

 

[Hunter67]

Need a laptop for work. Im an engineer and read through a lot of your posts may your recommend a system for me. Will run most MS office apps but need power to run CAD, SolidWorks and Statistical software. May you give me suggestions as to what to look for?

Thanks in advance

 

[Benhawk]

Alright, you've made up your mind to get a craptop, errr.... laptop and you're looking at all the different brands and configurations, scratching your head and wondering "WTH have I gotten myself into?" FEAR NOT DEAR FRIENDS! As a former salesman at tigerdirect.ca I can give you completely unbiased and truthful information, hopefully I can dispel a lot of myths surrounding laptop purchases.

Myth #1 - Processing power is all-important.

Actually, as with everything else, it completely depends on the application. Most people who buy laptops buy them for school or for work. Some buy them as their primary computer because they don't have a lot of room at home and so they assume that they need a powerful processor in order to do the everyday tasks they bought the laptop to do. The fact is, 90% of what people do on computers hasn't really changed since the days of Windows 95. Hardware has advanced much faster than software has. I was browsing with netscape and internet exploder back when I had a Pentium-I. You can't tell me that office applications need much either. I was using WordPerfect with an original IBM PC! LOL

Myth #2 - Brand matters

This is one of my favourites because it REALLY shows just how ignorant human beings can be. As someone who sold these things for a living at one of the largest computer retailers in Canada (hell, in North America) I can tell you a few things about the marketing behind the laptops and help you cut through all the BS.

The only difference between one brand and another is appearance (and sometimes quirky features that few people, if any, ever use). Laptops are like people, under the skin we're all pretty much the same. No matter what brand the laptop is, whether it's Acer, HP, Dell, Gateway, Lenovo, Compaq, ASUS, eMachines, Alienware, MSI, Toshiba or Packard-Bell, they're all made with the same internals from Intel, AMD, VIA, ARM, nVidia, ATi, Seagate, Hitachi, Western Digital, Foxconn, etc. They're also ALL MADE IN CHINA which means that most likely that they didn't even design the thing to begin with, they just bought the rights to a Chinese design, threw their name on it and marketed the hell out of it in North America. Also keep in mind that Acer owns Gateway, eMachines and Packard-Bell while HP owns Compaq and Dell owns Alienware. If you think they don't try to keep as many common parts as possible to keep costs down and profits up, you really should give your head a shake. Specs such as Hard Drive Space, RAM, Operating System, WiFi type, Bluetooth Compatibility, LED vs. Fluorescent backlighting and display size are the specs you should be looking at. Battery life is also a consideration but be sure to check how much a replacement battery will cost because you will most likely be replacing the battery at least once in the lifetime of your laptop. A battery with double the life might cost 5x the price to replace. No battery lives forever. Typically, eBay is the best source for replacement batteries.

Myth #3 - School home/laptops should be expensive to make sure they don't become obsolete.

This is the biggest pile of crap I've ever heard. I attend university and I use an eMachines E620-5885. Here's the specs:

CPU: Athlon 64 2650e 1.6GHz Single-Core
RAM: 2GB DDR2
Hard Drive: 160GB SATA
Graphics: ATi Radeon X1200
WiFi: Wireless-G
OS: Originally Vista Home Basic (gasp!), downgraded to XP Professional (Thank god!)
Optical: Dual-Layer DVD-RW

This machine (which I am typing on as we speak), from a specs perspective is rather primitive. The question is, since it runs everything I want it to (including most online games), why do I need to worry? Word and Powerpoint both work perfectly and probably would on an old Pentium-1. Programs like that, along with Firefox and other browsers were originally designed for much older machines and so even a machine like mine will be perfect for the average user who surfs the net, plays light games and does schoolwork. Even my old Pentium-3 laptop does these things. (I upgraded because after 9 years, it was physically falling apart but I use it for my magic jack now.) Believe me, my ATi X1200 is one of the LOWEST-scoring GPUs in benchmark tests but it's still fine.

Myth #4 - You should periodically drain your laptop battery completely and charge it up again

Hell no, you don't want to do that. Lithium-Ion batteries are not like the old Nickel-Cadmium rechargeables. They do not develop a memory from unscheduled charging and do NOT respond well to deep-cycling (draining completely and then recharging). That will kill a Lithium-Ion cell almost as fast as too much heat. Ideally, you would keep it plugged in all the time and the battery would last forever (which would defeat the purpose of having a laptop) but as long as you never drain it completely it will last for years. There isn't a huge difference between running it down to 10% as opposed to charging it from 90% from a battery life standpoint but keeping it as fully charged as possible at all times will make the battery more or less immortal.

Myth #5 - Intel is better than AMD / AMD is better than Intel

Again, your application makes all the difference here. If you do actual heavy-duty computing like video encoding, machine virtualization, etc. Then yes, Intel is the way to go. If, on the other hand, you don't want it for the aforementioned reasons, then AMD is the way to go. Here's my explanation:

Intel's mobile CPUs are superior in processing power to AMD's in the same price range. That means that they are better for heavy multitasking (I mean a LOT of tasks because all CPUs can multitask reasonably well, even single-cores, remember the Athlon 64?) but they have a serious thorn in their side, namely, the Intel GMA series graphics processors. Intel used to offset this with outstanding battery life by using their Centrino technology but AMD's Llano-based laptops have up to double the battery life of Intel's newest offerings anyway. If all you do is simple tasks at home like banking, surfing the web, playing music and watching movies, well, we were doing those exact things back in the days of Windows 95 with our Pentium I's and 486DX4-100's! You don't need serious power for that. Hell, my OLD Dell Latitude C610 with an ORIGINAL Mobility Radeon M6 having only 16MB of dedicated video RAM and 512MB of PC100 SDRAM plays NHL games streamed from cbc.ca FLAWLESSLY! Keep in mind that 2D graphics such as movies and photo editing are a snap for even the old ATi Rage and nVidia TNT2 series cards. Modern notebook GPUs are far more powerful than that.

AMD's Llano-based Sabine notebook platform looks to be the best thing out there right now for general use and light to moderate gaming with its APU (CPU and GPU combined). The AMD APU seems to be a fantastic design and received rave reviews right here on Tom's Hardware and on Legit Reviews for its graphics capabilities and very low power consumption. When it comes to gaming, the AMD A8-3500M has literally DOUBLE the battery life of the Intel i5-2520M and delivers far better graphics performance than Intel's crappy graphics processor while still remaining less expensive. The A8 laptop will also run for almost 8 hours if all you're doing is reading a document. The specifics are available here:
http/www.tomshardware.com/reviews/a8-3500m-llano-apu,2959.html
http/www.legitreviews.com/article/1636/1/

Netbooks:

Netbooks are almost all essentially the same with the Intel Atom 1.6GHz CPU,1GB RAM, 160GB HD, XP Home and Intel graphics. The only way to distinguish one from the other is through battery life and warranty. In the same price category you can expect them all to have the same specs. If there's one you like the look of better than the rest, then go for it but don't expect a performance difference between them unless you're willing to cough up extra $$$ for an SSD or faster CPU. Make sure you know what battery you're getting because some manufacturers bundle a 3-cell Lithium-Ion battery and some bundle a 6-cell Lithium-Ion battery. As before, be sure to find out what the price is for a replacement. Again, eBay is the best source for that.

Laptops vs. Desktops:

If you're thinking of buying a super-powerful laptop, I implore you not to. Laptops cannot be upgraded and are therefore technological dead-ends. For the price of a super-powerful laptop, you could pick up a desktop that is equal to or more powerful than the super-powerful laptop you're looking at AND get a $500 laptop for the same price. If you just need the laptop for mobility, then this combo is the way to go.

I hope this helps you wade through the sea of marketing BS and expensive sparkly glitter. Remember, a laptop is NOT a fashion statement unless you have money to burn. I know I don't and you probably don't either, take care.

If you have any questions about Laptops (or desktops for that matter), you can send me a pvt message or laptop questions can go here.

SOURCES: notebookcheck.net, cpubenchmark.net

If you like what you read here, please post a reply so that this thread doesn't get buried. I'd like it to be stickied but nobody answers me.

 

[Benhawk]

Avro:
Ur review RULES!, I love it! and ur tips and advices where just great!
I'm about to buy a laptop, and believe me your words will be considered.
Thank You very much!

 

[bellrinder]

Hi, Abro, I need a laptop, like yesterday, for travel and want to load it with lightroom and photoshop cs5 or 6, as well as a couple of other smaller programs.

I thought I wanted a Lenova think pad, because it's supposed to have a good keyboard and I have hand arthritis, but I tried a "sold by Costco" ideapad. They've crammed so many keys onto the board my fingers keep stumbling and bumping into each other. So it's going back.

I'd like a decent screen, at least 15 inches (can bring a monitor to plug in), but it doesn't have to be perfect because I will using my desktop for the major editing at home.

I'd rather stick to brands that are reliable and have decent support. (who wouldn't). They seem few and from reading your posts it doesn't seem like there is a lot of difference. I don't want a Mac for various reasons, one is that switching back and forth from a Mac to Windows is not easy for me (I have an older Macbook).

I'd like a fairly light laptop and a dedicated memory video card but it doesn't need to be top of the line. I read that quad cores speed things up a lot. 12 GB ram sounds good since it adds to speed, but that's probably not possible in a laptop.

A comfortable keyboard is important (wish they made one without a number pad and left more room for the regular keys), a solid state drive for OS and programs, a 7200 RPM, drive. I'll have all my image files (over a TB) on an external which will be one of at least two backups. I can put just the files I'm working on on the interior drive. I'd like Windows 7 Pro. I don't think I need a dvd writer. Worst case scenario, I could get a portable dvd reader.

I also need to find a good surge protector for a laptop. And need to find the least expensive way to use wireless while on the move. (We will be rving for a vacation.)

Hope this isn't too wordy, You have so many good ideas I'm hoping you can help with suggestions. I don't mind spending what I need to spend, but don't want to break the bank unnecessarily.

Thank you!

 

[SunRainOr]

Hi, so it's August 2012 now - I'm being advised to buy a Lenovo X series laptop - I live in the tropics, it's superhot and humid and dusty and I do carry my laptop around so light and durable case are most important 14' screen is fine as I'd hook up a monitor at home, but need light to travel - I don't do video editing at any great level (just tiny little videos of hummingbirds flying from the nest, waves crashing on beaches etc...very basic) ... but I do like fast and clean operations. What laptop(s) would you recommend? Or what specs should I look for? Supplier-wise I can buy from US or Canada and have someone there send it on for me, so doesn't have to be a supplier who exports either...and should I wait for windows 8?
I know before you recommended getting a high specs desktop and lower spec laptop instead of a high spec laptop - but I don't really want the doubling up ... so a good specs laptop as above - what would be your current rec? under $1000 preferably

 

[welshrugby77]

I wouldn't say bogus as much as I'd say "That's what their test subjects said." I've seen Consumer Reports say that Apple Macbooks are the sturdiest. I bet if they took a different group of people and did the same test they'd have a different result. I'm not sure you might have thought of that. After all, 30,000 units over 3 years is a drop in the bucket in regard laptop sales, even for one year. There's no real way to accurately gauge what's best and what's worst. I just decided to go by the customers I spoke to who previously owned laptops and no brand was complained about more or less than any other. At least, not that I could notice. As a result, regardless of this test, I stand by my statement that I do not believe that one is significantly more reliable than another. Again, internals are all made in China by Foxconn, MSI, ASUS, nVidia, ATi, Intel, AMD, etc. All these companies do is assemble them, or as I said before, in a lot of cases, they just slap their name on them. If you don't believe me, here's solid evidence:

Acer Aspire 5515:
http://ak.buy.com/PI/0/500/210929503.jpg
eMachines E620:
http://www.notebook-driver.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/emachineseme620-01.jpg
Yes, of course I know that Acer owns eMachines, I do believe I stated that in the original post, but you can't tell me that this isn't ridiculous. These two laptops were sold in the same marketplace (The Tiger Direct store I worked at) with the same specs at different prices. I ought to know, I bought one.

You do know that those are two different machines right?

 

[Yuka]

I agree in most of the points you make Avro, but different brands use different approaches for construction and THAT matters a lot.

It doesn't matter where it's made or who assembles it. What matters is the quality itself of the materials and QA applied for the laptops.

For instance, Acer might use the same MoBo PCB on the eMachines and the Acer-branded lappy, but they'll use different capacitors, different resistances and different paste and plastic. That accounts in the final price and the "real" feel of the notebook at the end of the day. That's why some brands fail less than others and why people usually have better experiences with one or other brand. Using aluminium for the frame is a world of difference from the cheapest plastic compound you can find. Sturdiness comes a long way IMO, and you can achieve sturdiness with plastic as well; Asus makes a great job in this regard, for instance. Now, this is not saying it will save the notebook from a free fall, but it will give it a better feel and will certainly protect it from bumps at least (specially the screen!).

It's a good set of advice overall, though. Good job, Avro.

Cheers!

 

[alectron]

Hello,
At Last, common sense. As an old but very experienced engineer forced to spend loads of time listening to so called experts and people going on about which Laptop, PC or Notebook to go for. This makes so much sense and I couldn't have written it better myself.
Well done.

 

[welson]

The specification of the laptop is what ultimately decides its performance, battery life and general suitability for you.
www.just4laptops.co.uk

 

[welson]

great and fantastic