Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (
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>>- TiVo Series 2 DVR's (without DVD reader/writers that have TiVo Basic)
>>cannot be used legally with TiVo software without a subscription.
>>
>
>
> No argument there.
>
>
>>- Hacking the TiVo software on a series 2 (w/out TiVo Basic) to operate
>>without a subscription would be theft of service and is highly discouraged
>>by most of the TiVo community
>>
>
>
> Maybe we are talking semantics again, but I don't get the "theft of service"
> argument. As I understand it, the Tivo software is built upon a base of
> Linux code, to what extent I am not certain. If someone developed a piece of
> code that would select a channel at a pre-determined time and day and set
> the Tivo to record for some time period how would that be theft of service?
> Not trying to argue the point, I just don't see how it's theft. (Note that
> my example assumes some use of the Tivo software that actually controls the
> video capture and recording mechanisms so it's a bit different than your
> suggestion below.)
Doesn't your agreement w/ point 1 imply acceptance of point 2? But I
would also assert that just because Tivo uses Linux as the platform for
their product, it *doesn't* mean that they don't use proprietary
software on top of it. You can't "modify" GPL'd code and restrict it,
but you can certainly run closed code on top of it. Also you'd need to
cut out all the bits that receive information externally from Tivo or
their partners, including guide data, service updates, time syncing,
etc., since that is clearly a "service" that you are no longer paying for.
>>- Using your own software not developed by TiVo on a TiVo DVR would be
>>legal, but difficult considering the proprietary hardware (mpeg decoders,
>>etc.) and programming expertise required.
>>
>
>
> Never having opened up a Tivo I can't speak to the level of difficulty in
> developing code to use the hardware. I suspect the issue is not the
> proprietary hardware but the lack of documentation on the interfaces to the
> hardware and the library routines used to access that hardware. Clearly some
> people have been able to make modifications to Tivo units and have been able
> to figure out how to access backdoor features.
I agree with you here, but that's basically what I was saying. What
makes proprietary hardware difficult to code for is that the API is not
documented and must be reverse engineered. Code that deals with
non-proprietary hardware (or doesn't deal w/ hardware at all) is
relatively easy to modify, and is what most current Tivo hacks do today.
>>- If TiVo service did go "away" at some point (much more unlikely today
>>then when this discussion began), the TiVo community would likely cease
>>discouraging point #2 above.
>>
> True enough though I think it's somewhat hard to steal something from a
> company that no longer exists.
And that's why they would stop discouraging it. Why do I feel like
we're going in circles here.
> The issue as I see it is when new and better
> Tivo hardware becomes available (such as HD Tivo) I may not want to trash my
> Series 2 but try and get some basic use out of it without having to pay for
> a subscription. Seems like a reasonable concept considering I own the
> hardware.
Tivo decided not to go that direction w/ series 2 units, at least for
now. Perhaps when new units are released they will reduce the
subscription rate or implement Tivo basic or something like it in the
S2's at that time. But that doesn't change any of the above.
Randy S.
/www.SatelliteGuys.US
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